vpFREE2 Forums

The Demise of VP?

Greetings again, all! Before I begin, I'd like to thank eecounter for responding to my voluminous questions and giving me much-needed info!
    In this issue....
  Perhaps I'm just being unreasonable when I give credence to the possibility that positive-expectation VP's days are numbered. After all, I keep reading that Casino "X" has pulled out its good machines. Is this a trend? Do casinos which pull out the good machines ever replace them with *other* good machines? I just can't shake the idea that as VP's popularity grows, there will be fewer and fewer opportunities for income. I'm sure this topic has been brought up before in this group, but being a newbie here, I didn't catch any prior discussions. Any thoughts on this?
    Although eecounter did an excellent job in his/her answers, I still have a question about etiquette. If there are no good AVAILABLE (to wit, the casino has them, but they're currently occupied) VP machines in any given casino, what is the proper way to deal with this situation? Would it be best to ask any players at machines where you want to play how much longer they're going to be playing? If *I* am at a machine, should I limit my play time if I see there are other(s) who'd like to use it? Most likely, these would prob. be pro/expert players, since most novices wouldn't care which machine they played.
   Also, I wonder how difficult it is to find a good (probably multi-line or progressive) AVAILABLE VP machine these days? Would I be better off going at a certain time of day (perhaps in the wee hours of the morning?) in order to maximize my chances of getting a good machine? Any what about seasons? Which months are the slowest in Vegas?
    Thanks again to all those who've contributed here. All the help and info I've gotten from fine folks like yourselves has been invaluable. Happy gaming!

              -Jon P of Florida

Hello!

Am I being naive or is there something that I am not seeing?

Am I really to believe that the casinos, anywhere, exist as "opportunities for
income"?

Just wondering ...

.....bl

Greetings again, all! Before I begin, I'd like to thank eecounter for

responding to my voluminous questions and giving me much-needed info!

    In this issue....
  I just can't shake the idea that as VP's popularity grows, there will be fewer

and fewer opportunities for income.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mercutions" <mercutions@y...> wrote:

OK, I will take a shot at answering your questions.

First of all I think you are greatly underestimating the number of
"good" VP machines in Las Vegas. The town is full of them! Places
like Sam's Town and the Palms have hundreds in all sizes, shapes,
configurations, demoninations, multi-play, etc, etc,. If you go to
the right casinos you will not have any problem finding a good
machine. True Friday and Saturday nights get a little busy or if the
casino has a really great promotion going on. But most any other time
there will machines galore available. And I wouldn't expect you would
have problems finding a playable machine even during those times. The
exception would be a progressive with a large jackpot on the clock.

As for asking someone when they are going to leave --- DON'T. You can
get yourself ejected from the casino for such practices. That machine
is his/hers as long as he/she wants to play. And the same goes for
you in the reverse situation.

You didn't say where you are staying but you can check out the
inventory of full pay machines in that casino and the rest of the
casinos in Las Vegas right here in VPFree. Check the data base on the
web site.

Rick

···

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mercutions" <mercutions@y...> wrote:

Greetings again, all! Before I begin, I'd like to thank eecounter

for responding to my voluminous questions and giving me much-needed info!

    In this issue....
  Perhaps I'm just being unreasonable when I give credence to the

possibility that positive-expectation VP's days are numbered. After
all, I keep reading that Casino "X" has pulled out its good machines.
Is this a trend? Do casinos which pull out the good machines ever
replace them with *other* good machines? I just can't shake the idea
that as VP's popularity grows, there will be fewer and fewer
opportunities for income. I'm sure this topic has been brought up
before in this group, but being a newbie here, I didn't catch any
prior discussions. Any thoughts on this?

    Although eecounter did an excellent job in his/her answers, I

still have a question about etiquette. If there are no good AVAILABLE
(to wit, the casino has them, but they're currently occupied) VP
machines in any given casino, what is the proper way to deal with this
situation? Would it be best to ask any players at machines where you
want to play how much longer they're going to be playing? If *I* am
at a machine, should I limit my play time if I see there are other(s)
who'd like to use it? Most likely, these would prob. be pro/expert
players, since most novices wouldn't care which machine they played.

   Also, I wonder how difficult it is to find a good (probably

multi-line or progressive) AVAILABLE VP machine these days? Would I
be better off going at a certain time of day (perhaps in the wee hours
of the morning?) in order to maximize my chances of getting a good
machine? Any what about seasons? Which months are the slowest in Vegas?

    Thanks again to all those who've contributed here. All the help

and info I've gotten from fine folks like yourselves has been
invaluable. Happy gaming!

              -Jon P of Florida

Greetings again, all! Before I begin, I'd like to thank eecounter for responding to my voluminous questions and giving me much-needed info!
    In this issue....
  Perhaps I'm just being unreasonable when I give credence to the possibility that positive-expectation VP's days are numbered. After all, I keep reading that Casino "X" has pulled out its good machines. Is this a trend? Do casinos which pull out the good machines ever replace them with *other* good machines? I just can't shake the idea that as VP's popularity grows, there will be fewer and fewer opportunities for income. I'm sure this topic has been brought up before in this group, but being a newbie here, I didn't catch any prior discussions. Any thoughts on this?

This is the problem with postings by certain former and current members of this list. THERE IS NO SHORTAGE OF GOOD VP IN LV. For the quarter player, the choices are overwhelming. Other than the Strip and Coast, there are plenty of FPDW, JW, 10/7 DB and 10/6 DDB. 10/7 DB is readily available at 50c and $ as well.
Other positive choices are lots of 9/6 JOB and NSUD with cashback, comps or other goodies that make them worth over 100%. And the fact is that for the vacationer, you cannot notice the difference between slightly under 100% and slightly over. It takes well over 1,000,000 hands before you begin to experience long-term expected results. (Run simulations on WinPoker and see).
While there are occasional minor changes on long-time plays (like the Palms recently removing their 10-coin 25c DBs) Coast was the only company to totally devastate their inventory and they even left lots of 25c DB at Orleans.

    Although eecounter did an excellent job in his/her answers, I still have a question about etiquette. If there are no good AVAILABLE (to wit, the casino has them, but they're currently occupied) VP machines in any given casino, what is the proper way to deal with this situation? Would it be best to ask any players at machines where you want to play how much longer they're going to be playing? If *I* am at a machine, should I limit my play time if I see there are other(s) who'd like to use it? Most likely, these would prob. be pro/expert players, since most novices wouldn't care which machine they played.

There are two ways to handle this situation. Park near the bank and wait for someone to leave (don't stand over people's shoulders). This will happen at some locations that have only 1 bank of FPDW, but people often leave quickly. Pros do not play 25c machines! Regular players are more like hobbyists, not pros. As a visitor, you are very unlikely to run into a play that attracts pros. And if someone else wants the machine you are playing, tough for them! Play as you want when you want.
An alternative is that if you are mobile and you are in a place where you just can't get a machine you want (unlikely) go somewhere else. There are thousands of full-pay machines here, they are never ALL full!

   Also, I wonder how difficult it is to find a good (probably multi-line or progressive) AVAILABLE VP machine these days? Would I be better off going at a certain time of day (perhaps in the wee hours of the morning?) in order to maximize my chances of getting a good machine? Any what about seasons? Which months are the slowest in Vegas?

It is easy to find seats at multi-play NSUD machines, except for the progressives (sometimes). I have never seen the 10/7 triple plays at Binion's full. There are a lot of 9/7 DB multi-plays as well. Other than progressives and the 10/7's at Binions there are no FP multi-plays that return over 100%. There are lots of 9/6 JOB multi-lines, including progressives all over, including the Strip.
You can't generalize about single-line progressives, there are too many factors involved.
Early morning is obviously a better time to get available machines than late afternoon or evening. But you should be able to play any time you want if you are a little flexible.

···

At 08:48 AM 10/28/2003 +0000, you wrote:

If you do a search you may find numerous posts devoted to the debate
of whether the sky is truly falling;-)
Chandler

"...there is always a well-known solution to every human problem--neat,
plausible, and wrong." H. L. Mencken

···

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 08:48:32 -0000, you wrote:

I'm sure this topic has been brought up before in this group, but being a newbie here, I didn't catch any prior discussions. Any thoughts on this?

24/7/365 there are full pay machines. including progressives sitting empty
in Las Vegas. You only need to know one word: PALMS.

If you want to spread your play around: Fiesta & Stations.

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "mercutions" <mercutions@yahoo.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 2:48 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] The Demise of VP?

Greetings again, all! Before I begin, I'd like to thank eecounter for

responding to my voluminous questions and giving me much-needed info!

    In this issue....
  Perhaps I'm just being unreasonable when I give credence to the

possibility that positive-expectation VP's days are numbered. After all, I
keep reading that Casino "X" has pulled out its good machines. Is this a
trend? Do casinos which pull out the good machines ever replace them with
*other* good machines? I just can't shake the idea that as VP's popularity
grows, there will be fewer and fewer opportunities for income. I'm sure
this topic has been brought up before in this group, but being a newbie
here, I didn't catch any prior discussions. Any thoughts on this?

    Although eecounter did an excellent job in his/her answers, I still

have a question about etiquette. If there are no good AVAILABLE (to wit,
the casino has them, but they're currently occupied) VP machines in any
given casino, what is the proper way to deal with this situation? Would it
be best to ask any players at machines where you want to play how much
longer they're going to be playing? If *I* am at a machine, should I limit
my play time if I see there are other(s) who'd like to use it? Most likely,
these would prob. be pro/expert players, since most novices wouldn't care
which machine they played.

   Also, I wonder how difficult it is to find a good (probably multi-line

or progressive) AVAILABLE VP machine these days? Would I be better off
going at a certain time of day (perhaps in the wee hours of the morning?) in
order to maximize my chances of getting a good machine? Any what about
seasons? Which months are the slowest in Vegas?

    Thanks again to all those who've contributed here. All the help and

info I've gotten from fine folks like yourselves has been invaluable. Happy
gaming!

              -Jon P of Florida

vpFREE Links: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/VP/Links.htm

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

If you are happy making $7 an hour (with bankroll swings approximately +/-
$2,500 ) , many FPDW machines stand ready to hire you. Applications are
accepted 24/7/365. Of course, pay is based on performance and there is no
dental plan nor is a company car provided..

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "bornloser1537" <bornloser1537@yahoo.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 8:04 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: The Demise of VP?

Hello!

Am I being naive or is there something that I am not seeing?

Am I really to believe that the casinos, anywhere, exist as "opportunities

for

income"?

Just wondering ...

.....bl

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mercutions" <mercutions@y...> wrote:
> Greetings again, all! Before I begin, I'd like to thank eecounter for
responding to my voluminous questions and giving me much-needed info!
> In this issue....
> I just can't shake the idea that as VP's popularity grows, there will

be fewer

and fewer opportunities for income.

vpFREE Links: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/VP/Links.htm

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/