vpFREE2 Forums

Taxing Question

#21

As a progressive player and as an idividual who recognizes and knows
many of the other players, I can, with absolute certainty state that
there are few if any teams in this town. You speak with definitive
certainty and I really feel that you don't know what you are talking
about.

This is NOT intended to be an insulting or flaming comment.

There are many pros. Perhaps, there are couples and or brothers who
"team" up but there are NO large groups. No one group is big enough
to take over a bank of machines. Yes, an individual machine may be
played around the clock, but not a bank of multiple machines.

It just is not so. The only pure team that I know of consists of only
5-6 players. It takes at least 3 to monopolize one machine.

···

On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 00:41:11 -0000, you wrote:

another comment:

from the casino standpoint, a 9/6 jacks flat top (800royal) is the
same as an 8/5 jacks progressive with 2% meter, except that expert
players aren't gonna bother with the flat top (excluding comps or
coupons) but they will hit the progressive, and that cuts into the
casino take, sometimes pretty significantly.

2% meters are pretty rare these days, largely due to team abuse.

casinos should be barring more players, but instead they usually just
pull machines or promo's

often a casino will have a reasonable play, say 1%, and then they add
a promo which makes it 2%, and the "pros" attack and the casino pulls
both the promo and the former reasonable play leaving nothing
attractive and the casino loses regular customers as well as
potential new customers while some "pros" have made some short term
gains.

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#22

all i'm saying is, you people, you know who you are, who play
multiple machines at once or pay people to play (teams) or call all
your buddies to play (informal teams), you people should think twice
about what you are doing. the money comes from average players, not
the casino, if the average player can't get on, the game will get
pulled and no one will get to play. you don't have to feel guilty,
our capitalist system is based on people with knowledge taking
advantage of people without, but if you'd like to see the game
survive, don't be so aggressive and don't block average players. if
you want to continue to see casino downgrades, just keep on doing
what you are doing.

As a progressive player and as an idividual who recognizes and knows
many of the other players, I can, with absolute certainty state that
there are few if any teams in this town. You speak with definitive
certainty and I really feel that you don't know what you are talking
about.

This is NOT intended to be an insulting or flaming comment.

There are many pros. Perhaps, there are couples and or brothers

who

"team" up but there are NO large groups. No one group is big enough
to take over a bank of machines. Yes, an individual machine may be
played around the clock, but not a bank of multiple machines.

It just is not so. The only pure team that I know of consists of

only

5-6 players. It takes at least 3 to monopolize one machine.

>another comment:
>
>from the casino standpoint, a 9/6 jacks flat top (800royal) is the
>same as an 8/5 jacks progressive with 2% meter, except that expert
>players aren't gonna bother with the flat top (excluding comps or
>coupons) but they will hit the progressive, and that cuts into the
>casino take, sometimes pretty significantly.
>
>2% meters are pretty rare these days, largely due to team abuse.
>
>casinos should be barring more players, but instead they usually

just

>pull machines or promo's
>
>often a casino will have a reasonable play, say 1%, and then they

add

>a promo which makes it 2%, and the "pros" attack and the casino

pulls

>both the promo and the former reasonable play leaving nothing
>attractive and the casino loses regular customers as well as
>potential new customers while some "pros" have made some short

term

>gains.
>
>
>vpFREE Links: http://www.west-

point.org/users/usma1955/20228/VP/Links.htm

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, elliotts@j... wrote:

On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 00:41:11 -0000, you wrote:
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREE/
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vpFREE-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>

#23

aaquad250 wrote:

all i'm saying is, you people, you know who you are, who play
multiple machines at once or pay people to play (teams) or call all
your buddies to play (informal teams), you people should think twice
about what you are doing. the money comes from average players, not
the casino, if the average player can't get on, the game will get
pulled and no one will get to play. you don't have to feel guilty,
our capitalist system is based on people with knowledge taking
advantage of people without, but if you'd like to see the game
survive, don't be so aggressive and don't block average players. if
you want to continue to see casino downgrades, just keep on doing
what you are doing.

I find this an unusual statement to be made from a member of this group.
A Slot Manager at the Gold Coast said almost the exact same thing to me
three days ago. Average players are in denial or just do want to
believe that teams (formal or otherwise) exist, but they in fact do. I
am always suspicious of anyone who absolutely denies that they do exist
or that they might be the cause of downgrading by some casinos. I have
personally seen them many times operate on progressives.

Bob

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#24

"Average players are in denial or just don't want to believe that
teams (formal or otherwise) exist, but they in fact do. I have
personally seen them many times operate on progressives."
Bob

I'm wondering how you identify a "team" (formal or otherwise)? Maybe
it's where I play, but I've never had the feeling a bank of machines
is being controlled by a team. Some of the people I see playing do
so for hours and hours ... is that an "informal" team if several
people are doing this? I don't have a problem with this.

#25

brumar_lv wrote:

"Average players are in denial or just don't want to believe that
teams (formal or otherwise) exist, but they in fact do. I have
personally seen them many times operate on progressives."
Bob

I'm wondering how you identify a "team" (formal or otherwise)? Maybe
it's where I play, but I've never had the feeling a bank of machines
is being controlled by a team. Some of the people I see playing do
so for hours and hours ... is that an "informal" team if several
people are doing this? I don't have a problem with this.

You usually can spot formal teams by simply observing them for a time.
I think most of the time it's the informal teams that hurt the plays.
That is when a local husband/wife or individual call all their friends
and tells them of a good play they have found and to come on down and
join them for the fun. They in turn call their friends and at that
point, no tourist will see a free machine until after the jackpot is
hit. They probably seem more like a team because they all know each
other. Usually you will find more interaction between them, where as a
formal team rarely will talk to each other even though they do know each
other, but are more serious in their mission.

Bob

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#26

often the bartender/slot personel know
ask them
playing two machines is generally a dead giveaway
if you happen to notice the same group of people playing, that's
probably a team
probably the only workable solution is if these teams police
themselves otherwise the casino is most likely to just downgrade even
though personel may know of a team or teams in operation (they could
ban teams just like in blackjack, but the trend seems to be to just
downgrade so everyone loses)

I'm wondering how you identify a "team" (formal or otherwise)?

Maybe

it's where I play, but I've never had the feeling a bank of

machines

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "brumar_lv" <brumar_lv@y...> wrote:

is being controlled by a team. Some of the people I see playing do
so for hours and hours ... is that an "informal" team if several
people are doing this? I don't have a problem with this.