vpscott2003 wrote:
How is bounce back cash and cash back figured in yearly totals?
Do you have to figure them in your total win/loss for the year?
Taxation on gambling income is an inexact science, but the
consensus seems to be that bounce back cash and cash back
should be reported as income.
<<Taxation on gambling income is an inexact science, but the
consensus seems to be that bounce back cash and cash back
should be reported as income.>>
I don't think there is a consensus really. A very gray area. Many people report cashback and do not count bounce-back. Marissa and I cover this subject in "Tax Help for the Frugal Gambler," coming out in January.
____________________
Jean $cott - "The Frugal Gambler"
MORE FRUGAL GAMBLING can now
be ordered, autographed, at
http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
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Jean Scott wrote:
<<Taxation on gambling income is an inexact science, but the
consensus seems to be that bounce back cash and cash back
should be reported as income.>>I don't think there is a consensus really. A very gray area. Many people report cashback and do not count bounce-back. Marissa and I cover this subject in "Tax Help for the Frugal Gambler," coming out in January.
Absent a specific tax code provision or ruling by the IRS, I would be inclined to treat them separately. Logically, cash-back is nothing more than a rebate and ought to be used to reduce the amount you claim as losses, but bounce-back has all the earmarks of a gift, which makes it non-taxable. Although I am a lawyer, I am NOT a TAX lawyer ... and I know next to nothing about taxes, so I could certainly be very wrong about this. But I do think that ... if there is not very clear guidance from the IRS ... that this would give you something to hand your hat on if they claim that you falsified your return. Just my thoughts.
Bill Velek
As is usually the case your post worries me. Taking a line that the
caino is giving you a gift would not go well in Tax Court as even
a "gift" from such a 3rd party in pure theory could be taxable
anyway. It being cash brings it into even sharper focus. No 1 would
ever claim the normal freebies (glasses/shirts/etc) but once you are
called in everything can be on the table.
Jean Scott wrote:
> <<Taxation on gambling income is an inexact science, but the
> consensus seems to be that bounce back cash and cash back
> should be reported as income.>>
>
> I don't think there is a consensus really. A very gray area.
Many
> people report cashback and do not count bounce-back. Marissa and
I
> cover this subject in "Tax Help for the Frugal Gambler," coming
out in
> January.
Absent a specific tax code provision or ruling by the IRS, I would
be
inclined to treat them separately. Logically, cash-back is nothing
more
than a rebate and ought to be used to reduce the amount you claim
as
losses, but bounce-back has all the earmarks of a gift, which makes
it
non-taxable. Although I am a lawyer, I am NOT a TAX lawyer ... and
I
know next to nothing about taxes, so I could certainly be very
wrong
about this. But I do think that ... if there is not very clear
guidance
from the IRS ... that this would give you something to hand your
hat on
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Velek <billvelek@a...> wrote:
if they claim that you falsified your return. Just my thoughts.
Bill Velek
Michael Boutot wrote:
As is usually the case your post worries me.
My posts usually worry you? Well, I'll admit that I have made a few mistakes in my posts; I think just about everyone who has posted very much has, but I've always been honest enough to admit my errors. I will extend my apologies to you if you have somehow detrimentally relied upon any erroneous info that I've posted. I try to be careful, but I'll try to be even more diligent in the future. Now, if it is not my few errors, then what else do I post which usually worries you? I suppose you ought to just quit reading my posts if they bother you; that would be the most sensible thing to do, really.
Taking a line that the
caino is giving you a gift would not go well in Tax Court ...
I will certainly defer to your judgment without the slightest hesitation if you can provide any credentials whatsoever which would support some professional qualification on your part.. Are you an accountant? ... a tax attorney? ... an IRS employee? ... even a tax preparer such as with 'H & L Block'? ... because if you have nothing else to support your "theory" except mere intuition and a 'seat of your pants' opinion, then _your_ post worries _me_.
... as even
a "gift" from such a 3rd party in pure theory could be taxable
anyway. ...
And that statement is pretty much erroneous enough for me to conclude that you don't really know what you're talking about. GENERALLY ... in the absence of any exceptions made by specific tax code provisions ... GIFTS are _NOT_ taxable to the recipient under _federal_ taxes. I am not going to venture a guess about _state_ taxes, which, with 50 states, could possibly differ, but I will say that I suspect that MANY, if not most, state-taxes are patterned in some fashion after the federal tax system. So I now invite you to elaborate a little bit about your "theory" that gifts from 3rd parties could be taxed anyway -- other than what I have already stated. And I assume that you're not going to claim that "could" encompasses possible future tax-law changes; your post was a direct challenge to mine, and carries with it the implication that such a ruling is just a little bit more imminent than that.
You do, know, don't you, that whenever there is a gift tax, it is paid by the gift GIVER and not the RECEIVER. If you don't know that, then I don't see how you're the least bit qualified to criticize my post, and the problem with your 'worries' about my posts might just be due to your own misconceptions.
It being cash brings it into even sharper focus. No 1 would
ever claim the normal freebies (glasses/shirts/etc) but once you are
called in everything can be on the table.
I fail to see any distinction at all between non-cash gifts and cash-gifts ... unless the regulations themselves make a distinction.
And of course, if I read her post correction, even Jean Scott (her post below) indicated that this is a 'very gray area'.
Cheers.
Bill Velek
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Velek <billvelek@a...> wrote:
> Jean Scott wrote:
>
> > <<Taxation on gambling income is an inexact science, but the
> > consensus seems to be that bounce back cash and cash back
> > should be reported as income.>>
> >
> > I don't think there is a consensus really. A very gray area. Many
> > people report cashback and do not count bounce-back. Marissa and
I
> > cover this subject in "Tax Help for the Frugal Gambler," coming
out in
> > January.
>
> Absent a specific tax code provision or ruling by the IRS, I would
be
> inclined to treat them separately. Logically, cash-back is nothing
more
> than a rebate and ought to be used to reduce the amount you claim
as
> losses, but bounce-back has all the earmarks of a gift, which makes
it
> non-taxable. Although I am a lawyer, I am NOT a TAX lawyer ... and
I
> know next to nothing about taxes, so I could certainly be very
wrong
> about this. But I do think that ... if there is not very clear
guidance
> from the IRS ... that this would give you something to hand your
hat on
> if they claim that you falsified your return. Just my thoughts.
>
> Bill Velek
The only instance where I could see an individual rationalize not reporting
bounce-back cash would be if they considered that it is a gift, since only
an outright gift is nontaxable to the recipient.
Bounce-back cash, like other cash back is related to the gambling activity
and is additional income, or a cash recovery of prior losses which were
offset against prior winnings. By not including the cash back, you would be
receiving a double tax benefit, which the IRS does not allow.
The IRS always looks at the substance of a transaction, so whether it is
called cash back or bounce-back cash, you must look at the character, or
substance of the monies received.
Judy
-----Original Message-----
From: Jean Scott [mailto:QueenofCo…@…biz]
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 3:11 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Taxing Question
<<Taxation on gambling income is an inexact science, but the
consensus seems to be that bounce back cash and cash back
should be reported as income.>>
I don't think there is a consensus really. A very gray area. Many people
report cashback and do not count bounce-back. Marissa and I cover this
subject in "Tax Help for the Frugal Gambler," coming out in January.
____________________
Jean $cott - "The Frugal Gambler"
MORE FRUGAL GAMBLING can now
be ordered, autographed, at
http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
Jean Scott, if you happen to read this ...
snip
From: Jean Scott [mailto:QueenofCo…@…biz]
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 3:11 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Taxing Question
snip
I don't think there is a consensus really. A very gray area. Many people
report cashback and do not count bounce-back. Marissa and I cover this
subject in "Tax Help for the Frugal Gambler," coming out in January.
snip
I assume that your book, once it is finished, will have a 'definitive' answer, based upon either a specific tax-code provision, or an analysis/opinion from a tax-expert such as a CPA. I will then concede the point, ... but until then ... even a concensus of opinion, if there was one, held by people who aren't any more qualified than I am on the subject, would still leave me wondering.
Cheers.
Bill Velek
-----Original Message-----
I would agree with Becky. As I mentioned before, this does not seem like a
gray area to me. IRS code sec 111 deals with recoveries and the tax benefit
rule. As a practicing C.P.A., it seems that the IRS would clearly require
inclusion of all cash back monies received as it relates to the gambling
activity. The IRS code does not specifically mention cash back or
bounce-back as it relates to gambling activities, so we need to look at how
the IRS defines income and how it is taxed.
Like I mentioned before, the IRS will look at the substance of the
transaction. If the cash back or bounce-back cash received is considered a
rebate or recovery of prior losses sustained, then the IRS will consider
this to be income. If you were, for instance, to include your winnings on
Pg 1 of your tax return and your losses on sch A without including your cash
back received, you would then be receiving a double tax benefit. No can do.
I am sure that when Jean's book comes out she will clarify many of the
questions and misconceptions as they relate to gambling and taxes.
Judy
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Velek [mailto:billve…@…net]
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 6:55 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Taxing Question
Jean Scott, if you happen to read this ...
snip
-----Original Message-----
From: Jean Scott [mailto:QueenofCo…@…biz]
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 3:11 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Taxing Question
snip
I don't think there is a consensus really. A very gray area. Many people
report cashback and do not count bounce-back. Marissa and I cover this
subject in "Tax Help for the Frugal Gambler," coming out in January.
snip
I assume that your book, once it is finished, will have a 'definitive'
answer, based upon either a specific tax-code provision, or an
analysis/opinion from a tax-expert such as a CPA. I will then concede
the point, ... but until then ... even a concensus of opinion, if there
was one, held by people who aren't any more qualified than I am on the
subject, would still leave me wondering.
Cheers.
Bill Velek
Thanks, Judy and Becky. One follow-up question: to which tax year should we attribute this 'income' from cash-back and/or bounce-back? Is it the tax the year in which it accrued and was available to us, or the year in which we actually withdraw it? I mean, if I were to do some heavy gambling in late December during the Christmas holidays, amassing a lot of cash-back on my card, but then not actually withdraw it until January, then which year does it go with? On the one hand, as a rebate of losses, it would seem appropriate that it might need to be claimed with the year in which those losses occurred, but on the other hand, I can see where it might need to actually be claimed/collected before it becomes taxable (after all, I don't think I could hardly be taxed for bounce-back checks that I receive but never do cash).
Thanks for your time and any additional info you can provide.
Cheers, and good luck with your VP.
Bill Velek
Judy Slatin wrote:
I would agree with Becky. As I mentioned before, this does not seem like a
gray area to me. IRS code sec 111 deals with recoveries and the tax benefit
rule. As a practicing C.P.A., it seems that the IRS would clearly require
inclusion of all cash back monies received as it relates to the gambling
activity. The IRS code does not specifically mention cash back or
bounce-back as it relates to gambling activities, so we need to look at how
the IRS defines income and how it is taxed.Like I mentioned before, the IRS will look at the substance of the
transaction. If the cash back or bounce-back cash received is considered a
rebate or recovery of prior losses sustained, then the IRS will consider
this to be income. If you were, for instance, to include your winnings on
Pg 1 of your tax return and your losses on sch A without including your cash
back received, you would then be receiving a double tax benefit. No can do.I am sure that when Jean's book comes out she will clarify many of the
questions and misconceptions as they relate to gambling and taxes.Judy
snip
Bill,
If you had "constructively" received the cash back in Dec, in other words it
was available to you in Dec, then you should include the cash back in that
year even if you withdrew it in Jan. If, on the other hand, you earned cash
back in Dec and you received bounce-back cash in Jan, even though you earned
it in Dec, you would include it in the year received. This is because it
was not yet available to you in Dec. (because you did not have knowledge of
the amount.) This pertains to most individuals who are "cash basis
taxpayers." If you were on the accrual basis (unusual for individuals) then
you would record in the year earned. Hope this helps.
Judy
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Velek [mailto:billve…@…net]
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 8:42 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Taxing Question
Thanks, Judy and Becky. One follow-up question: to which tax year
should we attribute this 'income' from cash-back and/or bounce-back? Is
it the tax the year in which it accrued and was available to us, or the
year in which we actually withdraw it? I mean, if I were to do some
heavy gambling in late December during the Christmas holidays, amassing
a lot of cash-back on my card, but then not actually withdraw it until
January, then which year does it go with? On the one hand, as a rebate
of losses, it would seem appropriate that it might need to be claimed
with the year in which those losses occurred, but on the other hand, I
can see where it might need to actually be claimed/collected before it
becomes taxable (after all, I don't think I could hardly be taxed for
bounce-back checks that I receive but never do cash).
Thanks for your time and any additional info you can provide.
Cheers, and good luck with your VP.
Bill Velek
Considering most individuals are "cash basis taxpayers" as you say, it sure
doesn't sound right to me that you would declare any cash back received in
January for the previous year. What about the cash back you took in March or
June or October that was earned the previous year?
I know that when I had a corporate job for 20 years, the last few days of
the year that I worked were not a part of that year's income if I was paid
for those days after Dec 31.
-----Original Message-----
From: Judy Slatin [mailto:j.sla…@…net]
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 6:11 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: Taxing Question
Bill,
If you had "constructively" received the cash back in Dec, in other words it
was available to you in Dec, then you should include the cash back in that
year even if you withdrew it in Jan.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Velek [mailto:billve…@…net]
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 8:42 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Taxing Question
Thanks, Judy and Becky. One follow-up question: to which tax year
should we attribute this 'income' from cash-back and/or bounce-back? Is
it the tax the year in which it accrued and was available to us, or the
year in which we actually withdraw it? I mean, if I were to do some
heavy gambling in late December during the Christmas holidays, amassing
a lot of cash-back on my card, but then not actually withdraw it until
January, then which year does it go with? On the one hand, as a rebate
of losses, it would seem appropriate that it might need to be claimed
with the year in which those losses occurred, but on the other hand, I
can see where it might need to actually be claimed/collected before it
becomes taxable (after all, I don't think I could hardly be taxed for
bounce-back checks that I receive but never do cash).
Thanks for your time and any additional info you can provide.
Cheers, and good luck with your VP.
Bill Velek
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Since you are filing, as most taxpayers, as a cash basis taxpayer the key is
when you receive (or "constructively receive") the cash - this is the year
in which it should be reported. This is the year that it was available to
you for withdrawal. You cannot manipulate the cash back to be in another
year, simply because you choose to withdraw it at a later date.
Judy
-----Original Message-----
From: Randy C [mailto:ran…@…net]
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 9:36 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: Taxing Question
Considering most individuals are "cash basis taxpayers" as you say, it sure
doesn't sound right to me that you would declare any cash back received in
January for the previous year. What about the cash back you took in March or
June or October that was earned the previous year?
I know that when I had a corporate job for 20 years, the last few days of
the year that I worked were not a part of that year's income if I was paid
for those days after Dec 31.
-----Original Message-----
From: Judy Slatin [mailto:j.sla…@…net]
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 6:11 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Re: Taxing Question
Bill,
If you had "constructively" received the cash back in Dec, in other words it
was available to you in Dec, then you should include the cash back in that
year even if you withdrew it in Jan.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Velek [mailto:billve…@…net]
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 8:42 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Taxing Question
Thanks, Judy and Becky. One follow-up question: to which tax year
should we attribute this 'income' from cash-back and/or bounce-back? Is
it the tax the year in which it accrued and was available to us, or the
year in which we actually withdraw it? I mean, if I were to do some
heavy gambling in late December during the Christmas holidays, amassing
a lot of cash-back on my card, but then not actually withdraw it until
January, then which year does it go with? On the one hand, as a rebate
of losses, it would seem appropriate that it might need to be claimed
with the year in which those losses occurred, but on the other hand, I
can see where it might need to actually be claimed/collected before it
becomes taxable (after all, I don't think I could hardly be taxed for
bounce-back checks that I receive but never do cash).
Thanks for your time and any additional info you can provide.
Cheers, and good luck with your VP.
Bill Velek
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
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ult?mqso=60178338&partid=4116730> click here
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
snip all -- but adding new questions to this same thread because the subject is the same
Judy, thanks for your info. John Robison just wrote an article in the Casino City Times, 11 Dec. 03, "End of Year Tax Tip", which included the following:
"Now, you may ask why you should bother keeping these records when you can just ask the slot club for a win/loss statement? First, you will request win/loss statements from your slot clubs when you do your taxes. Your records will corroborate those statements. Second, slot clubs sometimes make mistakes and you have your own evidence for a loss. Finally, from what I've heard, the IRS prefers your own contemporaneous log."
>
"What should you keep in your log? Your record for a session should contain at a minimum the date, the casino, a description of the machine or machines you played, the amount you started with, and the amount you ended with."
Regarding John's 'second' point in the first paragraph: if your own handwritten records indicate that your winnings were greater than what the casino's records indicate, I'm sure that the IRS would applaud your honesty and accept them without hesitation, but I'm wondering if your own records -- which obviously could easily be padded -- indicate _losses_ which greatly exceed what the casino's records indicate, am I to understand that the IRS will simply take the taxpayer's word for it and accept your own journal in lieu of the casino record? I find that very surprising, to say the least ... UNLESS (looking at John's second paragraph, above), it is possible for the IRS to somehow look deeper into casino records. What I mean by that is: "Should the description of the machines we play (as suggested by John) include the serial number of the machine? I can very easily imagine, with technology as it is, that logs could easily be maintained for several years for each machine, indicating slot-card numbers and some corresponding info, such as length of play, number of games, and overall wins/losses for that period of play (it would not be necessary to record each and every play -- just the credits/points on the card when it was inserted and when withdrawn. This could also easily tip the casino to players who pull cards when they are dealt a high-potential hand.
Cheers.
Bill Velek
Casino win/loss records should be obtained to corroborate your own records
along with other substantiating evidence such as atm withdrawals, hotel
receipts, etc. Of course, casino statements are almost always inaccurate,
but should be obtained as additional evidence of your win/loss record. I
have read of at least one tax case where a taxpayer had not kept records and
relied solely on the casino end of year win/loss statement. The IRS
rejected the casino end of year win/loss statement and the taxpayers lost in
tax court because it was obvious they had not kept records and were not able
to prove losses equal to that reported.
Certainly, if your record is drastically different from that obtained from
casinos' win/loss statements it could be subject to question and under an
IRS audit, an auditor would render their decision based on all the facts and
circumstances.
Refer to IRS publication 529, pg 11 http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p529.pdf
for a brief discussion on what to include in gaming log.
Judy
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Velek [mailto:billve…@…net]
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 11:35 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Taxing Question
snip all -- but adding new questions to this same thread because the
subject is the same
Judy, thanks for your info. John Robison just wrote an article in the
Casino City Times, 11 Dec. 03, "End of Year Tax Tip", which included the
following:
"Now, you may ask why you should bother keeping these records when you
can just ask the slot club for a win/loss statement? First, you will
request win/loss statements from your slot clubs when you do your taxes.
Your records will corroborate those statements. Second, slot clubs
sometimes make mistakes and you have your own evidence for a loss.
Finally, from what I've heard, the IRS prefers your own contemporaneous
log."
>
"What should you keep in your log? Your record for a session should
contain at a minimum the date, the casino, a description of the machine
or machines you played, the amount you started with, and the amount you
ended with."
Regarding John's 'second' point in the first paragraph: if your own
handwritten records indicate that your winnings were greater than what
the casino's records indicate, I'm sure that the IRS would applaud your
honesty and accept them without hesitation, but I'm wondering if your
own records -- which obviously could easily be padded -- indicate
_losses_ which greatly exceed what the casino's records indicate, am I
to understand that the IRS will simply take the taxpayer's word for it
and accept your own journal in lieu of the casino record? I find that
very surprising, to say the least ... UNLESS (looking at John's second
paragraph, above), it is possible for the IRS to somehow look deeper
into casino records. What I mean by that is: "Should the description of
the machines we play (as suggested by John) include the serial number of
the machine? I can very easily imagine, with technology as it is, that
logs could easily be maintained for several years for each machine,
indicating slot-card numbers and some corresponding info, such as length
of play, number of games, and overall wins/losses for that period of
play (it would not be necessary to record each and every play -- just
the credits/points on the card when it was inserted and when withdrawn.
This could also easily tip the casino to players who pull cards when
they are dealt a high-potential hand.
Cheers.
Bill Velek
We discuss cashback and bounce-back in the book and Marissa gives her opinions on these matters and the reasons she feel are valid. But since it is not mentioned by name in tax codes, etc., this, as a lot of things in the book, make these decisions a personal matter between you and your tax preparer, if you have one.
Bounce-back given as Free Play might be considered different than that given as cash - or maybe not.
____________________
Jean $cott - "The Frugal Gambler"
MORE FRUGAL GAMBLING can now
be ordered, autographed, at
http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
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Bounce-back given as Free Play might be considered different than that given
as cash - or maybe not.
Ah yes. Bounce-back cash given as free play, if it is based on prior play
is still cash back received and should be recognized as such (if you use the
free play.) This is because you have received a tax benefit for that
amount. Free play, not based on prior play would not be taxable because it
would then be characterized as a gift.
Judy
-----Original Message-----
From: Jean Scott [mailto:QueenofCo…@…biz]
Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 1:34 AM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Taxing Question
Judy Slatin wrote:
Ah yes. Bounce-back cash given as free play, if it is based on prior play
is still cash back received and should be recognized as such (if you use the
free play.) This is because you have received a tax benefit for that
amount. Free play, not based on prior play would not be taxable because it
would then be characterized as a gift.
Well, to the extent that it is possible to receive 'bounce-back' as a 'gift', I'm wondering about the month that I received _both_ my usual bounce-back check and _also_, in a separate mailing, a check for my _birthday_. I didn't save the card/letter, so I don't have a reference as to whether the _casino_ called it a "gift" or not. Any thoughts on that?
Thanks.
Bill
Bill,
The position that I take on this is that if a birthday check is sent to you
and is not based on prior play vs. the bounce-back cash that is, then I
would consider this a gift and not reportable. If the casino considered it
otherwise and if it was $600 or more then they would issue a 1099.
You should, of course, always consult with your tax advisor. He or she may
take a different position on this, but either way they should be able to
explain to you why they take the position they do.
Judy,
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Velek [mailto:billve…@…net]
Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 3:19 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Taxing Question
Well, to the extent that it is possible to receive 'bounce-back' as a
'gift', I'm wondering about the month that I received _both_ my usual
bounce-back check and _also_, in a separate mailing, a check for my
_birthday_. I didn't save the card/letter, so I don't have a reference
as to whether the _casino_ called it a "gift" or not. Any thoughts on that?
Thanks.
Bill
<<Bounce-back cash given as free play, if it is based on prior play
is still cash back received and should be recognized as such (if you use the
free play.) This is because you have received a tax benefit for that
amount. Free play, not based on prior play would not be taxable because it
would then be characterized as a gift.>>
I don't think this is as "certain" as you make it sound. I strongly believe that this is a VERY gray area.
____________________
Jean $cott - "The Frugal Gambler"
MORE FRUGAL GAMBLING can now
be ordered, autographed, at
http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Stuart Richards <stuart1970xxl@y...>
wrote:
vpscott2003 wrote:
> How is bounce back cash and cash back figured in yearly totals?
> Do you have to figure them in your total win/loss for the year?Taxation on gambling income is an inexact science, but the
consensus seems to be that bounce back cash and cash back
should be reported as income.
No, it is not income, bounce back,cash back and rebates are
considered a return of money spent at the establishment issuing same,
therfore not taxable, and a upfront comp is considered a gift to you
& buss. expense to the company
many tax court rulings uphold same ,none contradict.
M J Perry