9. TAXES:::: Something New
Posted by: "denflo60" dennis.florence@worldnet.att.net denflo60
Date: Thu Mar 1, 2007 4:02 pm ((PST))
...
The man at the desk appear completely bewildered as I gave him all
the legal paperwork. He immediately got on the telephone to figure
out what to do. To make a long story short, I was not allowed to
play as a Corporation with an EIN number. Over my 6 evening stay I
just played $5.00 single play JorB to minimize W2G's to staight or
royal flushes. My accountant talked to their people but he was never
told by the Casino WHY. I had previously dealt with Director of
Marketing Pete Landy who was very helpful to me previously on 2006
tax info and questions. After several discussions of "We are looking
into it", which I happen to believe, I finally concluded that it was
a Casino policy and procedure that prevented them from letting me
play and not a Federal, state or gambling commission law. They told
me I was the first person to ever ask them this question. With all
the discussion on this blog that seemed impossible to me unless I am
one of only a few high rolling VP players that come fronm a state
where gambling losses are not deductable.
What do you folks out there say about this. I like Wynn, I have been
happy with Wynn and I'd like to stay there. I have been led to
believe I would have the same problem at any Casino in Vegas. Can
anyone or any casino refute this? If I can play somewhere else I
would consider it given similar comps. If everyone does it the same
way I will just stop gambling as I have plenty of other hobbies to
keep me busy. I am hoping in a few months Wynn will alter their
policy and let me play. Pete Landy and I jokingly agreed that I
should write the next book on Video Poker and gambling.
Denny
I don't know about your specific situation, but I have often encountered something similar. A friend and I play "partners" when we play video poker together -- sometimes two machines side by side, sometimes on higher denominations taking turns (details as to when we rotate machine operation irrelevant here), but working out of a common "kitty" to which we each contribute equal amounts, with the understanding that we'll split our winnings (or, of course, more commonly, our losses). We've even done this with a third and/or fourth person on occasion.
I've also played poker tournaments with "backers" having a portion of my action, same idea.
Needless to say, we don't want whoever is the lucky one at video poker, or just me for the tournaments, to get hit with the taxes for W2Gs, and with each of us in different brackets, deciding how to work it out on our own is difficult.
The IRS provides Form 5754 for such situations -- the player enters his/her name, address, etc., and tax id, and also puts on the form all the others to whom payment is to be made, with their identifying information, and how the prize is to be split. The casino is then supposed to accept that form, issue the payment as directed, and issue a W2G to EACH person listed, so each person is responsible for their share of the taxes.
The Form 5754 does NOT go to the IRS; it is for the payer's records.
I've not yet received a payment when all the recipients were not there, so I don't know if they would give me checks made out to them for me to deliver, mail them checks, or what, if that would happen.
Anyway, like you, we often run into casino personnel, including the "highest" person on the slot floor, who say "we don't do that". The directions on the back of the form explain that the form "enables" the payer to make the payments as directed, but does not say that they MUST do so (it DOES say that if I receive a payment for someone else or as a member of a group, that I "must" complete the form).
Even with this loophole for them, I have been successful by explaining to them that they MUST comply with the provisions of the form, and that I would hate to bring IRS attention to their casino by writing the IRS and telling them that their casino refused to do this - a bluff which has always worked.
If they have an accounting dept., that's where the expertise is to understand how the form works; perhaps you can ask them to provide a contact in their own accounting dept. whom your accountant can call and share his thought process and research and any references, etc. -- and then, of course, it is still the casino's decision as to how to implement it -- but IF the IRS regs in any way REQUIRE them to comply with your request, you can try my "threat of a letter" technique, and it might even work if the regs do NOT require it.
Incidentally, the Form 5754 says "the taxpayer identification number for an individual is the social security number or individual tax identification number; for all others it is the employer identification number" -- so there MAY be something in the IRS regs that prohibits an individual receiving a payment from using an employer identification number. That said, perhaps you could use the Form 5754 to "split" your winnings between yourself and your "business entity"; ask your accountant if that would work.
I'm not an accountant myself, so I'm just guessing on that last idea.
--BG
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