vpFREE2 Forums

Tax Help for the Frugal Gambler

I'm sorry if this is a little late in the cashback/bounceback
discussion as I've been out of e-mail contact for the last few days.

As Jean stated in her post, the taxation of cashback, bounceback
cash, and and now bounceback freeplay is a challenging and amorphous
area of taxation. These are issues that Jean and I as co-authors
of "Tax Help for the Frugal Gambler" try to address. I am an
Enrolled Agent who is someone licensed by the US Treasury to practice
before the IRS. I have a tax practice here in Las Vegas and I do tax
returns for a lot of gamblers including Jean Scott. I have also
represented gamblers in gambling audits before the IRS so I feel I
have insight as to the "thinking" of the IRS regarding this matter.
I can tell you for a fact that the IRS at least here in Nevada has
increased the number of audits of gamblers. In addition, I play
video poker like the rest of you and these are issues that I have
tried to grapple with as well.

In my opinion, I feel that cashback IS taxable gambling income. The
main reason that I feel that cashback is income and not a gift is
because cashback is earned statutorily. About the only chance you
would have in trying to classify cashback as non-taxable is if you
were to call it as a partial return of wager. However, that would
only apply if you had a losing hand since if you had a winning hand,
the cashback received for that hand would be above and beyond the
amount wagered plus the win on that hand. However, the recordkeeping
required to prove your assertion if you tried this line of thinking
would border on the ridiculous.

The argument regarding bounceback cash to me is really a tough one.
One who wanted to take a conservative approach would declare it as
gambling income since this cash was received as the result of one's
gambling actions. But one can also make the argument that since this
cash was sent out essentially upon the whim of the casino, it's
nature is more of a gift. To further complicate this matter would
also be based upon the gambler's intent. Is the gambler a
professional or a recreational gambler? If the gambler was a
professional, then the argument can be made by the IRS that he was
expecting the bounceback and that he wouldn't have played at the
casino in the absence of the bounceback and therefore it's an implied
contract and the bounceback would be classified as income.

As you can see, the taxation of gambling is not a black and white
issue. Jean and I do our best to clarify a lot of misconceptions and
questions regarding this matter, but in the end it really does depend
upon each individual's facts and circumstances.

Our book will (hopefully) be available by January 15th just in time
for tax season!!

Marissa Chien, EA

I'm sorry if this is a little late in the cashback/bounceback
discussion as I've been out of e-mail contact for the last few days.

As Jean stated in her post, the taxation of cashback, bounceback
cash, and and now bounceback freeplay is a challenging and

amorphous

area of taxation. These are issues that Jean and I as co-authors
of "Tax Help for the Frugal Gambler" try to address. I am an
Enrolled Agent who is someone licensed by the US Treasury to

practice

before the IRS. I have a tax practice here in Las Vegas and I do

tax

returns for a lot of gamblers including Jean Scott. I have also
represented gamblers in gambling audits before the IRS so I feel I
have insight as to the "thinking" of the IRS regarding this

matter.

I can tell you for a fact that the IRS at least here in Nevada has
increased the number of audits of gamblers. In addition, I play
video poker like the rest of you and these are issues that I have
tried to grapple with as well.

In my opinion, I feel that cashback IS taxable gambling income.

The

main reason that I feel that cashback is income and not a gift is
because cashback is earned statutorily. About the only chance you
would have in trying to classify cashback as non-taxable is if you
were to call it as a partial return of wager.

Sorry, cant let this go by, it is not taxable because it IS a partial
return of your bet, like rebate on a car or your utlity bill or
anything else it is considered a return of purchase price,
This
is not an opinion, it is the law,
irs.gov, uscourtopinons.com and the tax notes today site give more
info,
What gets most gamblers in trouble with IRS most is forgetting
to report a W2g . this causes changes in all schedules filed, sch c
for some, sch a, it effects AMT, EIC, Phase out of deductions.
Add failure to pay penalty, compound interest,civil penalty if more
than 25% of income not reported and it gets expensive real quick.
and poster who was told they had to fill out a w2g because their
cashback was $1,200 was misinformed.
I receved a $1,500 rebate on my car, no w2 was required.
Ms Scott; e-mail me privately if you need my help
All of the above can be verifed with a little research
Remember: congress makes ALL tax laws, not the IRS,
M J Perry

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, marissa2c@a... wrote:

The whole premise for 'cashback' being taxable is that it is a reduction of the amount of your losses that you can offset against your winnings. If you have _no_ winnings, then you can't claim your losses, because gambling losses can only be offset against winnings. But if you DO have winnings, and you attempt to claim all of your coin-in against it ... you need to reduce that amount of coin-in by the amount of cashback that you have received. That has NEVER been an issue with me; it is logical, and was always my assumption, and it has been confirmed by a number of qualified individuals, including Becky.

The question that I raised at the outset (and which I believe spawned these various threads), was about _bounce-back_! The reason I asked about it is because it is not obligatory for the casino to give it to you (Note: I am not speaking now about what I've recently been reading about a few casinos mailing your 'cash-back' as if it were 'bounce-back' -- they are not the same thing). Among other things, I am speaking about ... for example ... a BIRTHDAY GIFT that might be sent by a casino. Sure, it might only have been sent because you've been a good patron ... but I get gifts from other 'businesses', such as my bank, because I've been a good customer and they want to keep my business. If I write-off some the banking expenses which pertain to my business, I don't think I need to reduce those deductible banking expenses by the value of the gifts that might be returned to me by the bank. As both Jean Scott and Becky has indicated, this subject is somewhat cloudy, at best.

Now, I'm still very curious about the tax law in Mississippi, which I understand reduced the rate of taxation for gambling income, but also ELIMINATED THE DEDUCTIBILITY of losses. My question, some time back, was if that is the case, then aren't all players in Mississippi amassing huge tax liabilities. This is how I analyze it, logically: let's say that I start with $100.00 of my own money. Before my 'trip-stake' is exhausted, I might have managed to 'reinvest' each winning hand so that I accumulate a total of $3,000.00 coin-in for that trip. How did I manage to play $3,000.00 worth of coin-in when I only had $100.00 to start with?? Well, I must have won $2,900.00 along the way. Because gambling losses are not deductible in Mississippi, it seems to me that I have $2,900.00 worth of accumulated winnings for that trip, and no deductible. Now, in case anyone is failing to follow that reasoning, let me give you a 'for instance': I start with $100, and then every one of my first 50 hands is a winner, and I now have a balance of $3,000.00; if I quite, I've made a taxable profit of $2,900.00. But I decide to stay, and every single hand that I then play for the rest of the day is a loser, and I end up broke and go home. Didn't I just win $2,900.00 and then lose $3,000.00?

My 'post for the day'.

Cheers and Merry Christmas to all.

Bill Velek

mklpryy24 wrote:

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, marissa2c@a... wrote:
> I'm sorry if this is a little late in the cashback/bounceback
> discussion as I've been out of e-mail contact for the last few days.
>
> As Jean stated in her post, the taxation of cashback, bounceback
> cash, and and now bounceback freeplay is a challenging and
amorphous
> area of taxation. These are issues that Jean and I as co-authors
> of "Tax Help for the Frugal Gambler" try to address. I am an
> Enrolled Agent who is someone licensed by the US Treasury to
practice
> before the IRS. I have a tax practice here in Las Vegas and I do
tax
> returns for a lot of gamblers including Jean Scott. I have also
> represented gamblers in gambling audits before the IRS so I feel I
> have insight as to the "thinking" of the IRS regarding this
matter. > I can tell you for a fact that the IRS at least here in Nevada has
> increased the number of audits of gamblers. In addition, I play
> video poker like the rest of you and these are issues that I have
> tried to grapple with as well.
>
> In my opinion, I feel that cashback IS taxable gambling income. The
> main reason that I feel that cashback is income and not a gift is
> because cashback is earned statutorily. About the only chance you
> would have in trying to classify cashback as non-taxable is if you
> were to call it as a partial return of wager.

Sorry, cant let this go by, it is not taxable because it IS a partial
return of your bet, like rebate on a car or your utlity bill or
anything else it is considered a return of purchase price,
This
is not an opinion, it is the law,
irs.gov, uscourtopinons.com and the tax notes today site give more
info,
What gets most gamblers in trouble with IRS most is forgetting
to report a W2g . this causes changes in all schedules filed, sch c
for some, sch a, it effects AMT, EIC, Phase out of deductions.
Add failure to pay penalty, compound interest,civil penalty if more
than 25% of income not reported and it gets expensive real quick.
and poster who was told they had to fill out a w2g because their
cashback was $1,200 was misinformed.
I receved a $1,500 rebate on my car, no w2 was required.
Ms Scott; e-mail me privately if you need my help
All of the above can be verifed with a little research
Remember: congress makes ALL tax laws, not the IRS,
M J Perry

..... Now, I'm still very curious about the tax law in Mississippi,

which I understand reduced the rate of taxation for gambling income,
but also ELIMINATED THE DEDUCTIBILITY of losses. My question, some
time back, was if that is the case, then aren't all players in
Mississippi amassing huge tax liabilities. This is how I analyze it,
logically (snip)

No, the 3% non-refundable MS state tax is only appied to IRS
reportable winnings (generally $1200+ W2-G wins and a few other
items). Other gambling winnings are not taxed by Mississippi,
provided you are a non-resident. If you are a MS resident, it's a
little more complicated, but nothing resembling what you describe in
your examples. Obviously, if MS applied (and enforced) their 3% tax
in the manner that you describe, gambling in Mississippi would dry up
in about two days.

Here is the related quote from the MS tax commission web site:

"Non-residents do not report gaming winnings from Mississippi casinos
which are not reportable to the Internal Revenue Service, nor do they
report gaming winnings from out-of-state casinos. Likewise, they do
not report or itemize any losses on their individual Mississippi
income tax filing.

Non-residents whose only source of income from this state is gaming
winnings in which 3% is withheld (i.e. winnings reportable to the
IRS) are not to make a Mississippi income tax filing."

Here is the link to the entire article:

http://www.mstc.state.ms.us/taxareas/Notice%2004-01.pdf

EE

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Velek <billvelek@a...> wrote:

Sorry, cant let this go by, it is not taxable because it IS a partial
return of your bet, like rebate on a car or your utlity bill or
anything else it is considered a return of purchase price,
This
is not an opinion, it is the law,
irs.gov, uscourtopinons.com and the tax notes today site give more
info,
What gets most gamblers in trouble with IRS most is forgetting
to report a W2g . this causes changes in all schedules filed, sch c
for some, sch a, it effects AMT, EIC, Phase out of deductions.
Add failure to pay penalty, compound interest,civil penalty if more
than 25% of income not reported and it gets expensive real quick.
and poster who was told they had to fill out a w2g because their
cashback was $1,200 was misinformed.
I receved a $1,500 rebate on my car, no w2 was required.
Ms Scott; e-mail me privately if you need my help
All of the above can be verifed with a little research
Remember: congress makes ALL tax laws, not the IRS,
M J Perry

This makes sense. If cashback
was reportable I believe the
casinos would be required to
issue a 1099 with each payment.
And, they are not.

Again, I apologize for being behind in my e-mails. It seems that
there are 6-7 replies before I get a chance to respond to the thread.

First of all, for the person who did receive a W2G for cashing out
$1200 in cashback at once did receive it in error. All they have to
do is to attach a note to their tax return explaining the error or go
back and try to convince the casino to issue a W2G-c(orrected)
showing a zero amount.

Second, M. Perry, you are incorrect in your analysis of cashback.
Cashback is NOT ALL a rebate of your losses and therefore non-
taxable. At a technical level, the way it works it this: Suppose
you play jacks or better at a MGM property. You play a hand for $5
($1 denom) and you lose. You will receive cashback for that hand of
1.67 cents (.33%). That 1.67 cents is considered a return of premium
and thereby non-taxable. Let's say you receive a pair of jacks as
your final hand. You will receive $5.0167 for that pair of jacks.
The first $5 is considered a return of premium and now you have
$.0167 gambling income. Let's say you receive two pair as your final
hand and receive $10.0167. Now you have a gambling win of $5.0167.

You state that you base your opinion on court cases. I base mine on
the court case of Hochman v. Commissioner which discusses the concept
of return of "premium" in gambling specifically as well as
discussions I had with an IRS revenue officer and the district
supervisor here in Las Vegas about 3 weeks ago. If you do the
research you claim, you should have no problem finding the case in
your reference materials. Finally, if you do truly believe your
position, I'd be more than happy to arrange the have the Las Vegas
IRS office audit your tax return to see if your assertion holds true.

Although in the upcoming book, we talk about gambling sessions wins
and losses, I think we'll see a major revamping of the methodology of
reporting wins and losses in the next couple of years based upon the
discussions I've had with the IRS. Changes have already been semi-
implemented at the field audit level; hopefully we'll get published
regs in the next year or so.

Regarding comparing a car rebate against cashback is really comparing
apples to oranges. For example, the IRS has determined that at this
juncture frequent flyer miles are not considered income although the
argument could very well be made that it is income.

Pardon me if I didn't catch your credentials, but can you please
refresh my memory? I am an Enrolled Agent. I have numerous clients
who are gamblers and I've represented many gamblers before the IRS
whether it be in person or via correspondence and so far have a
perfect record in my representations(knock on wood LOL).

As an aside, this is why I don't post on the boards. If all I did
was to respond to all of the disinformation that is out there, I
wouldn't get anything else accomplished! Unfortunately, and I see
this in my profession a lot - people will believe what they want to
believe. The unethical, dishonest and incompetent out there will
tell you what you want to hear knowing that although they are wrong,
they have about a 98% chance that the IRS will never catch it. But
I'd hate to be the client that falls into the 2%.

Signing off,
Marissa Chien, EA

Calm down a bit there Ms. Enrolled agent. If you can arrange to have
a return audited, we'd all be happy to visit you when in the area of
your Federal Pen. Somebody check your credentials, fast if you're
publishing anything based on VP postings. Many believe your
profession is on a par with the handouts on the Strip. Retired IRS
personnel even sneer at the mention. All with real tax concerns are
best advised to hire a real professional, a Tax Attorney, who will
not even allow a legal assistant to sign his papers. CD

Again, I apologize for being behind in my e-mails. It seems that
there are 6-7 replies before I get a chance to respond to the

thread.

First of all, for the person who did receive a W2G for cashing out
$1200 in cashback at once did receive it in error. All they have

to

do is to attach a note to their tax return explaining the error or

go

back and try to convince the casino to issue a W2G-c(orrected)
showing a zero amount.

Second, M. Perry, you are incorrect in your analysis of cashback.
Cashback is NOT ALL a rebate of your losses and therefore non-
taxable. At a technical level, the way it works it this: Suppose
you play jacks or better at a MGM property. You play a hand for $5
($1 denom) and you lose. You will receive cashback for that hand

of

1.67 cents (.33%). That 1.67 cents is considered a return of

premium

and thereby non-taxable. Let's say you receive a pair of jacks as
your final hand. You will receive $5.0167 for that pair of jacks.
The first $5 is considered a return of premium and now you have
$.0167 gambling income. Let's say you receive two pair as your

final

hand and receive $10.0167. Now you have a gambling win of $5.0167.

You state that you base your opinion on court cases. I base mine

on

the court case of Hochman v. Commissioner which discusses the

concept

of return of "premium" in gambling specifically as well as
discussions I had with an IRS revenue officer and the district
supervisor here in Las Vegas about 3 weeks ago. If you do the
research you claim, you should have no problem finding the case in
your reference materials. Finally, if you do truly believe your
position, I'd be more than happy to arrange the have the Las Vegas
IRS office audit your tax return to see if your assertion holds

true.

Although in the upcoming book, we talk about gambling sessions wins
and losses, I think we'll see a major revamping of the methodology

of

reporting wins and losses in the next couple of years based upon

the

discussions I've had with the IRS. Changes have already been semi-
implemented at the field audit level; hopefully we'll get published
regs in the next year or so.

Regarding comparing a car rebate against cashback is really

comparing

apples to oranges. For example, the IRS has determined that at

this

juncture frequent flyer miles are not considered income although

the

argument could very well be made that it is income.

Pardon me if I didn't catch your credentials, but can you please
refresh my memory? I am an Enrolled Agent. I have numerous clients
who are gamblers and I've represented many gamblers before the IRS
whether it be in person or via correspondence and so far have a
perfect record in my representations(knock on wood LOL).

As an aside, this is why I don't post on the boards. If all I did
was to respond to all of the disinformation that is out there, I
wouldn't get anything else accomplished! Unfortunately, and I see
this in my profession a lot - people will believe what they want to
believe. The unethical, dishonest and incompetent out there will
tell you what you want to hear knowing that although they are

wrong,

···

- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "marissa2c" <marissa2c@a...> wrote:

they have about a 98% chance that the IRS will never catch it. But
I'd hate to be the client that falls into the 2%.

Signing off,
Marissa Chien, EA

Again, I apologize for being behind in my e-mails. It seems that
there are 6-7 replies before I get a chance to respond to the

thread.

First of all, for the person who did receive a W2G for cashing out
$1200 in cashback at once did receive it in error. All they have

to

do is to attach a note to their tax return explaining the error or

go

back and try to convince the casino to issue a W2G-c(orrected)
showing a zero amount.

If you feel that cashback is taxable then why would you recomend the
above??

Second, M. Perry, you are incorrect in your analysis of cashback.
Cashback is NOT ALL a rebate of your losses and therefore non-
taxable.

plz reread my response, i said it is a return of part of the
bet,nthin to do with losses or wins,
  

You state that you base your opinion on court cases. I base mine

on

the court case of Hochman v. Commissioner which discusses the

concept

of return of "premium" in gambling specifically

Reread the court decesion, actually makes my point

as well as

discussions I had with an IRS revenue officer and the district
supervisor here in Las Vegas about 3 weeks ago.

the district supervisor in vegas has not seen a return or dealt with
a tax payer in many years, revenue officers are poorly trained with
regards to audits, they gather the info and forward it to smebody
else who makes these decesions, They are very very good at filing
leins and seizing property thou. Ask Irwin Schiff
  If you do the

research you claim, you should have no problem finding the case in
your reference materials.

Internal Revenue Manual, Tax Court Today, Pub 525,Pub 17, are some i
use

Finally, if you do truly believe your

position, I'd be more than happy to arrange the have the Las Vegas
IRS office audit your tax return to see if your assertion holds true

I get audited every year, but i apreciate the offer, i have forward
your request to the proper department.
The Las Vegas office and the IRS might be surprised that you would
have such a strong pull that you can ARRANGE an audit. Who do you
contact? How many times have you done this?? We want details!!

Although in the upcoming book, we talk about gambling sessions wins
and losses, I think we'll see a major revamping of the methodology

of

reporting wins and losses in the next couple of years based upon

the

discussions I've had with the IRS. Changes have already been semi-
implemented at the field audit level; hopefully we'll get published
regs in the next year or so.

It is to comply with the patriot act, ie: money laundering is the
issue, Casinos have been lax in completing CTR, cash transaction
reports example Mirage, audits of gamblers are rare because if they
reported all income, the $ money spent does not justify the $
collected.

Regarding comparing a car rebate against cashback is really

comparing

apples to oranges. For example, the IRS has determined that at

this

juncture frequent flyer miles are not considered income although

the

argument could very well be made that it is income

You are making my point, thanks. the car rebate, cashback, and
frequent flyer miles are ,for tax purposes, a return of the purchase
price, a return of your money that the tax has already been paid.
Congress does not tax the same income twice.

Pardon me if I didn't catch your credentials, but can you please
refresh my memory?

Have not figured that out yet???

I am an Enrolled Agent. I have numerous clients

who are gamblers and I've represented many gamblers before the IRS
whether it be in person or via correspondence and so far have a
perfect record in my representations(knock on wood LOL).

perfect for who? your clients?

I am not surprised, IRS likes an EA who say yes and writes the checks
and no, auditors will not correct a mistake that a tax payer
repersentive makes that cost their clients money,

As an aside, this is why I don't post on the boards. If all I did
was to respond to all of the disinformation that is out there, I
wouldn't get anything else accomplished! Unfortunately, and I see
this in my profession a lot - people will believe what they want to
believe.

As you do, thru out this discussion you have used phrases like "i feel
or "I think" or "I belive" never i know.
and yes disinformation is out there, that is why i responded in the
first place.
Ms. Scott has been a godsend to this board & to gamblers every where.
I would hate to see her reputation for being honest and accurate
damaged.

The unethical, dishonest and incompetent out there will tell you what
you want to hear knowing that although they are wrong,

Let me see, you threaten me with an audit, misread my comments,and
missed the point of the court case you tried to quote.
Should not be so hard on yourself!!

they have about a 98% chance that the IRS will never catch it. But
I'd hate to be the client that falls into the 2%

The IRS doing "blind audits" has droped from 1 1/2% in 95 to .005 for
2001, so low that congress is funding it back up again. and if you if
you sincerly take a tax posistion that is later overturned, taxes
will charged but the penalty for late payment can not be charged as
the IRS has to proof you were willfull in trying to avoid the
taxes,somthing very hard to prove if the tax payer reported all
information, courts have consintly upheld this posistion

Signing off,
Marissa Chien, EA

Me too! I know there as been enuff discussion to give the group ample
information, and as usual plz contact your tax profresional before
following any advice.

Anxiously waiting for the Vegas Audit Ms Chen promissed, Plz HURRY!!
M J Perry
& yes spellchecker still broke

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "marissa2c" <marissa2c@a...> wrote:

I know I said I wasn't going to post anymore, but like M Perry, I
just couldn't let this one go by either.

First of all, regarding cashback, my problem is with your statement
that ALL cashback is non-taxable. As I had stated in my original
post about a week ago, cashback can be non-taxable when it is a
return of premium in the case of a losing hand of video poker. As I
had also written about a week ago, the recordkeeping of such an
endeavour would be quite difficult to distinguish between winning and
non-winning hands.

Second, you flatter me in thinking that I have that much influence
with the IRS. The IRS is always interested when taxpayers are
misreporting their income and/or deductions on their tax return. I
was merely going to pass along the fact that there are taxpayers such
as yourself who believe that ALL cashback is non-taxable. If you
have been examined on this matter and have obtained a "no change"
determination, I'd be the first to apologize and I'd want to be the
first to understand how you obtained the result so others can follow
in your example. Of course if you were obtaining "no change"
determinations in your yearly audits, why are you being constantly
audited?

Furthermore, penalties and interest are only waived when a tax
position is taken upon the reliance of a professional. And the IRS
continues to narrow the instances when they will allow the "my
accountant screwed up" argument. Those who take tax positions based
upon what they read on a message board do so at their own peril.

Third, you state, "that Congress does not tax the same income
twice." I wished that were the case! How about those who are
shareholders of (C) corporations? A corporate income tax is paid at
the corporate level and then when the earnings are passed on to the
individual another tax is paid at the individual level - all on the
same income.

Our discussion here just goes to show how ambiguous the area of the
taxation of gambling really is. That is why I do qualify my
statements. There's very little that is absolute when it comes to
the taxation of gambling. It does come down to the facts and
circumstances of each taxpayer as the Supreme Court did state in
Commissioner v. Groetzinger.

Finally, I do want to apologize for being snippy in my last post.
You have made your arguments and points and I have done the same. At
the end of the day, I'd like to think we are on the same side -
knowledgeable gamblers who'd like to minimize their tax liability
within the confines of the tax code.

Thanks for the repost M; it seemed you were developing a Messiah
complex over XMAS, when 'tis the season to be jolly!
falalalalalala. It is a miserable topic but I usually detect "A
grain or two of truth amongst the chaff!" Most of us will continue
with what has worked. CD -

I know I said I wasn't going to post anymore, but like M Perry, I
just couldn't let this one go by either.

First of all, regarding cashback, my problem is with your statement
that ALL cashback is non-taxable. As I had stated in my original
post about a week ago, cashback can be non-taxable when it is a
return of premium in the case of a losing hand of video poker. As

I

had also written about a week ago, the recordkeeping of such an
endeavour would be quite difficult to distinguish between winning

and

non-winning hands.

Second, you flatter me in thinking that I have that much influence
with the IRS. The IRS is always interested when taxpayers are
misreporting their income and/or deductions on their tax return. I
was merely going to pass along the fact that there are taxpayers

such

as yourself who believe that ALL cashback is non-taxable. If you
have been examined on this matter and have obtained a "no change"
determination, I'd be the first to apologize and I'd want to be the
first to understand how you obtained the result so others can

follow

in your example. Of course if you were obtaining "no change"
determinations in your yearly audits, why are you being constantly
audited?

Furthermore, penalties and interest are only waived when a tax
position is taken upon the reliance of a professional. And the IRS
continues to narrow the instances when they will allow the "my
accountant screwed up" argument. Those who take tax positions

based

upon what they read on a message board do so at their own peril.

Third, you state, "that Congress does not tax the same income
twice." I wished that were the case! How about those who are
shareholders of (C) corporations? A corporate income tax is paid

at

the corporate level and then when the earnings are passed on to the
individual another tax is paid at the individual level - all on the
same income.

Our discussion here just goes to show how ambiguous the area of the
taxation of gambling really is. That is why I do qualify my
statements. There's very little that is absolute when it comes to
the taxation of gambling. It does come down to the facts and
circumstances of each taxpayer as the Supreme Court did state in
Commissioner v. Groetzinger.

Finally, I do want to apologize for being snippy in my last post.
You have made your arguments and points and I have done the same.

At

···

-- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "marissa2c" <marissa2c@a...> wrote:

the end of the day, I'd like to think we are on the same side -
knowledgeable gamblers who'd like to minimize their tax liability
within the confines of the tax code.