Is it just me, but is the number of players who bang the keys growing
at Sunset Station? I would glady change machines, but there is only
one bank of Optimum. I can put up with all the other noises, but the
smashing of keys ruins my harmony. Even when I am winning it drives
me crazy! Are there any casinos where banging is not so prevalent.
I asked one guy who was banging so hard if it helped him get more
royals. I think he thought was being sarcastic!
Colin
!
<<Is it just me, but is the number of players who bang the keys growing
at Sunset Station?>>
What if you almost ALWAYS play beside a "banger"!!!!!! That's my situation with Brad. And the longer he loses the harder he bangs!!!!
____________________
Jean $cott - "The Frugal Gambler"
Note new e-mail address
MORE FRUGAL GAMBLING can NOW
be ordered, autographed, at a pre-pub
discount, at http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Over the past month we've gone to MSS every weekend and in the process have
met quite a few members of vpFree, Skip's Group and LVA.
What's interesting is that the number of people who haven't hit a royal in
quite some time is larger than I thought based on the positive news posted.
Just this past Saturday I met Ed from PA who hit a royal on the FPDW at MSS
but he said it's been a couple of years since getting one. Ednar has also
said he's behind by several royal cycles.
This makes me ask:
Since there are several people who insist on playing only positive VP, can
the game (with cashback and promos) be positive without hitting a royal???
According to WinPoker, the royal on FPDW contributes 1.77% of the return. If
you are a couple of cycles behind on the royal it appears that you can take
a pretty bad beating. It looks even worse if you are a few cycles behind on
the 4 deuces where it contributes over 4%.
If you don't have either a royal or a set of deuces are you starting at a
return of 94.92%??
To calculate the possible loss to bankroll, would you multiply that by the
coin-in or the bankroll amount???
I'm sort of trying to justify our recent losses this past month. Playing
throughout July I didn't get one set of ducks or a royal, the wife did get 2
sets of ducks. Total gambling losses totaled about $3,000 with a total coin
in approximately of $76,000. If the calculation used is "return times
coin-in" , then darn if I'm not close to dead on. Negative but the calc
works. Unfortunately 3K puts a nice dent into the bankroll.
How are some people doing this with much smaller bankrolls than us? I've
heard people comment on having much less than 3-5 royals worth of bankroll.
Ours was 6K but that's mostly gone now.
When hitting these downturns, what have some of you done to alleviate it,
such as long shots etc.?? I know some people say, "I just keep playing
because it's positive and it will turn around." But, if you're going out
there with less than optimal bankroll because of a previous downturn, you
could lose it all on the next slide.
Other than externally refueling the bankroll, is there something people have
done to stay in the game or are the people who are truly serious about this
having much much larger bankrolls than 5K.
NOTE: This is all quarter denom talk.
PS: I can see why it's hard to be a professional, physically, emotionally
and monetarily.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Since there are several people who insist on playing only positive
VP, can
the game (with cashback and promos) be positive without hitting a
royal???
You basically answer your own question, but the simple truth is that
if cashback + actual value of comps + actual value of bounceback
cash, mail offers, etc.+ actual value of "discretionary" comps + the
EV of any promotions equals "x", and if the inherent EV (say, FPDW,
100.76) + "x" MINUS the return % of the royal is still over 100%,
then you are still playing at positive expectation. So FPDW without
any royals is a 99% game, but comps, cashback, etc. can drag that
back over 100% in certain cases.
For a long time the basic goal of any "pro" or advantage player was
to play under such conditions that failing to hit a royal still gave
a breakeven result. This is getting harder and harder to accomplish,
but it still can be done---for instance, play FPDW on a double
points day in a casino that gives .25 cashback and mails .40 out in
bounceback cash, and you're pretty close right there to breakeven.
To calculate the possible loss to bankroll, would you multiply
that by the
coin-in or the bankroll amount???
The coin-in is all that counts; the loss would be the same AMOUNT to
a $5000 or a $50000 bankroll.
I'm sort of trying to justify our recent losses this past month.
Playing
throughout July I didn't get one set of ducks or a royal, the wife
did get 2
sets of ducks. Total gambling losses totaled about $3,000 with a
total coin
in approximately of $76,000. If the calculation used is "return
times
coin-in" , then darn if I'm not close to dead on. Negative but the
calc
works. Unfortunately 3K puts a nice dent into the bankroll.
Strangely enough, you should find your results somewhat reassuring;
they help "prove" that you are playing the game properly (minimal
mistakes) since you are just about on the mark for EV (given the
conditions and results you state).
How are some people doing this with much smaller bankrolls than
us? I've
heard people comment on having much less than 3-5 royals worth of
bankroll.
Ours was 6K but that's mostly gone now.
A lot of people---including myself some years ago--have FAILED to
survive with small bankrolls, even with perfect play on positive EV
machines.
Even a three-royal bankroll only reduces ROR to 5% with some games.
I ran a bunch of simulations to test the longevity of a $1000
bankroll. That sucker evaporated over NINETY PERCENT of the time
when run through a million hands.
When hitting these downturns, what have some of you done to
alleviate it,
such as long shots etc.?? I know some people say, "I just keep
playing
because it's positive and it will turn around." But, if you're
going out
there with less than optimal bankroll because of a previous
downturn, you
could lose it all on the next slide.
Other than externally refueling the bankroll, is there something
people have
done to stay in the game or are the people who are truly serious
about this
having much much larger bankrolls than 5K.
NOTE: This is all quarter denom talk.
There is no quick fix to the short bankroll problem, but here's what
you can do to maximize bankroll life:
1. Play where cashback rather than comps are offered, and take
advantage of EVERY multiple point day at such places.
2. Wheedle the info out of the slot boothlings (or somebody here)
what the threshold amounts are for each level of mailed cashback.
Play only UP TO (and not beyond) the highest tier you are aiming for.
This has a corollary: spread your play around (different casinos).
3. Don't play high-volatilty games with minimal positive EV if the
purpose of doing so is promotion-oriented (example would be playing
10/7 DB because of a card-of-the-day or scratch card promotion).
4. Eat your comps. Even if you get sick of the buffet, remember that
that's ten bucks you would otherwise have spent, and can be added to
your bankroll. (I think of meals while I'm playing as a business
expense like any other.)
PS: I can see why it's hard to be a professional, physically,
emotionally and monetarily.
Yes. In the "real world", no matter how crappy of a day you have at
work, they will still pay you. AND, no matter how crappy of a job
you do, they will never TAKE MONEY AWAY from you!
I have found more and more pounders, they also drive me crazy so im getting a portable am.fm. cd player to drown out the noise, I have been tempted to ask them if it helps to beat up the buttons
----- Original Message -----
From: luckvpg
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 5:50 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Sunset bangers
Is it just me, but is the number of players who bang the keys growing
at Sunset Station? I would glady change machines, but there is only
one bank of Optimum. I can put up with all the other noises, but the
smashing of keys ruins my harmony. Even when I am winning it drives
me crazy! Are there any casinos where banging is not so prevalent.
I asked one guy who was banging so hard if it helped him get more
royals. I think he thought was being sarcastic!
Colin
!
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
vpFREE Links: http://tinyurl.com/a7ga
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I have gone about 2 months without a royal flush and it took about 6,000 from my bankroll, i finally hit one last night at the FIESTA RANCHO also they drew my name in the macho drawing and then i hit 4 ducks so maybe things are looking up, its been a long loosing streak so hopefully i will go on another winning streak like last time when I had 4 royals in 5 days plus lots of 4 ducks.
GENE
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Boston
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com ; vp-mail@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 11:44 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Can it be positive without a royal??
Over the past month we've gone to MSS every weekend and in the process have
met quite a few members of vpFree, Skip's Group and LVA.
What's interesting is that the number of people who haven't hit a royal in
quite some time is larger than I thought based on the positive news posted.
Just this past Saturday I met Ed from PA who hit a royal on the FPDW at MSS
but he said it's been a couple of years since getting one. Ednar has also
said he's behind by several royal cycles.
This makes me ask:
Since there are several people who insist on playing only positive VP, can
the game (with cashback and promos) be positive without hitting a royal???
According to WinPoker, the royal on FPDW contributes 1.77% of the return. If
you are a couple of cycles behind on the royal it appears that you can take
a pretty bad beating. It looks even worse if you are a few cycles behind on
the 4 deuces where it contributes over 4%.
If you don't have either a royal or a set of deuces are you starting at a
return of 94.92%??
To calculate the possible loss to bankroll, would you multiply that by the
coin-in or the bankroll amount???
I'm sort of trying to justify our recent losses this past month. Playing
throughout July I didn't get one set of ducks or a royal, the wife did get 2
sets of ducks. Total gambling losses totaled about $3,000 with a total coin
in approximately of $76,000. If the calculation used is "return times
coin-in" , then darn if I'm not close to dead on. Negative but the calc
works. Unfortunately 3K puts a nice dent into the bankroll.
How are some people doing this with much smaller bankrolls than us? I've
heard people comment on having much less than 3-5 royals worth of bankroll.
Ours was 6K but that's mostly gone now.
When hitting these downturns, what have some of you done to alleviate it,
such as long shots etc.?? I know some people say, "I just keep playing
because it's positive and it will turn around." But, if you're going out
there with less than optimal bankroll because of a previous downturn, you
could lose it all on the next slide.
Other than externally refueling the bankroll, is there something people have
done to stay in the game or are the people who are truly serious about this
having much much larger bankrolls than 5K.
NOTE: This is all quarter denom talk.
PS: I can see why it's hard to be a professional, physically, emotionally
and monetarily.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
vpFREE Links: http://tinyurl.com/a7ga
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
growing at Sunset Station? I would glady change machines, but
there is only one bank of Optimum. I can put up with all the other
noises, but the smashing of keys ruins my harmony. Even when I am
winning it drives me crazy! Are there any casinos where banging is
not so prevalent. I asked one guy who was banging so hard if it
helped him get more royals. I think he thought was being sarcastic!
I was hoping this was a post about a new Stations restaurant serving
British pub food.
About twelve years ago I found out EXACTLY how much it costs to
replace the belly glass on a .25 IGT Deuces Wild machine. Guess
how 
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "luckvpg" <lcolinandmarie@a...> wrote:
Is it just me, but is the number of players who bang the keys
AHHHHHHHHHH let me guess, you broke it and had to pay to replace it. GENE
----- Original Message -----
From: mkl54321
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 7:08 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Sunset bangers with English mustard
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "luckvpg" <lcolinandmarie@a...> wrote:
> Is it just me, but is the number of players who bang the keys
growing at Sunset Station? I would glady change machines, but
there is only one bank of Optimum. I can put up with all the other
noises, but the smashing of keys ruins my harmony. Even when I am
winning it drives me crazy! Are there any casinos where banging is
not so prevalent. I asked one guy who was banging so hard if it
helped him get more royals. I think he thought was being sarcastic!
I was hoping this was a post about a new Stations restaurant serving
British pub food.
About twelve years ago I found out EXACTLY how much it costs to
replace the belly glass on a .25 IGT Deuces Wild machine. Guess
how
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
vpFREE Links: http://tinyurl.com/a7ga
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mkl54321 wrote:
I was hoping this was a post about a new Stations restaurant serving
British pub food.
Oh, mkl, you score again with me. I'm sure my London born mother got
a post-mortem chuckle out of that one. (I'm one of those weirdos who
believe our loved ones continue to watch over us ... and still shake
their head and cluck their tongue.)
- H.
Well, there are more ways than one to train or retrain a husband.. <veg>
Carol
From: "Jean Scott" <QueenofComps@frugalgambler.biz>
What if you almost ALWAYS play beside a "banger"!!!!!! That's my
situation with Brad. And the longer he loses the harder he bangs!!!!
Back in 1985, I worked as a cashier in the race book at MGM Grand in
Las Vegas. (now the Bally's). I overpaid a winner of $2050 by $500
when I blurred the numbers together and paid out 2550, and was told
to pay it back or resign, so I quit. Back then, sometimes the
computers would go down, and we had to calculate winning tickets by
hand, including parlays, knowing if we made a mistake we could lose
our job. Fortunately, I never calculated an incorrect ticket. It was
fun. TomSki
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mkl54321" <mkl54321@y...> wrote:
> PS: I can see why it's hard to be a professional, physically,
emotionally and monetarily.Yes. In the "real world", no matter how crappy of a day you have at
work, they will still pay you. AND, no matter how crappy of a job
you do, they will never TAKE MONEY AWAY from you!