vpFREE2 Forums

Suncoast Patronage

#1

I think that most of us will agree that the best way to preserve
positive video poker is to educate the masses to demand positive
games, and then have the masses play those games poorly. Spreading
the word to the masses, one on one or through the media, that only
the "really good" games should be played, and that Casino X has
gotten rid of their "really good" games is IMO our most effective
tactic.

Boycotting a casino that doesn't have any positive plays makes sense,
but if a casino has positive plays, then any advantage play by
advantage players hurts the casino. Advantage players don't punish a
casino when they walk. Just the opposite.

In Suncoast's case, a boycott by advantage players is exactly what
they want. They get rid of the FPDW and the unwanted players, while
retaining the 10/7's for advertising purposes. If advantage players
believe that Suncoast may bring back FPDW if bottom line results are
unfavorable, the most effective move by advantage players whould be
to play (and tie up) all of their 10/7 DB machines 24/7.

#2

I think that most of us will agree that the best way to preserve
positive video poker is to educate the masses to demand positive
games, and then have the masses play those games poorly. Spreading
the word to the masses, one on one or through the media, that only
the "really good" games should be played, and that Casino X has
gotten rid of their "really good" games is IMO our most effective
tactic.

I don't know if most would agree but I don't. I think it's best to
avoid the details and just let the masses know they are tightening up.

In Suncoast's case, a boycott by advantage players is exactly what
they want. They get rid of the FPDW and the unwanted players, while
retaining the 10/7's for advertising purposes. If advantage players
believe that Suncoast may bring back FPDW if bottom line results are
unfavorable, the most effective move by advantage players whould be
to play (and tie up) all of their 10/7 DB machines 24/7.

IMHO, I think there's a flaw in this approach, also. They are not
going to be hurt by a few quarter or .50 10/7 players and the results
of those few that do play well will be mixed in with the results of
the great many that don't, leaving an overall decent hold for
Suncoast. The best way to deliver a message is to leave and take as
many of the masses as possible.

It's true that if all the best 10/7 players in town swarmed in there
and played .50 10/7 DB 24/7 it would have an effect. The effect would
be the removal of the .50 10/7 wouldn't it? I hardly think an increase
in expert play would motivate them to bring back fpdw.

I don't think it really matters at all if Karen plays there or not,
but I do think it's better if we "stick together". I'll take my
business elsewhere and try to get others to do so also. There is still
lots of good video poker around at other places.
Sal

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vp_FREE" <vpFREE@L...> wrote:

#3

Sally ... that's the finest contribution to this thread yet.

- Harry

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Sally" <tribbles@p...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vp_FREE" <vpFREE@L...> wrote:
>
>
> I think that most of us will agree that the best way to preserve
> positive video poker is to educate the masses to demand positive
> games, and then have the masses play those games poorly. Spreading
> the word to the masses, one on one or through the media, that only
> the "really good" games should be played, and that Casino X has
> gotten rid of their "really good" games is IMO our most effective
> tactic.

I don't know if most would agree but I don't. I think it's best to
avoid the details and just let the masses know they are tightening up.

>
> In Suncoast's case, a boycott by advantage players is exactly what
> they want. They get rid of the FPDW and the unwanted players, while
> retaining the 10/7's for advertising purposes. If advantage players
> believe that Suncoast may bring back FPDW if bottom line results are
> unfavorable, the most effective move by advantage players whould be
> to play (and tie up) all of their 10/7 DB machines 24/7.

IMHO, I think there's a flaw in this approach, also. They are not
going to be hurt by a few quarter or .50 10/7 players and the results
of those few that do play well will be mixed in with the results of
the great many that don't, leaving an overall decent hold for
Suncoast. The best way to deliver a message is to leave and take as
many of the masses as possible.

It's true that if all the best 10/7 players in town swarmed in there
and played .50 10/7 DB 24/7 it would have an effect. The effect would
be the removal of the .50 10/7 wouldn't it? I hardly think an increase
in expert play would motivate them to bring back fpdw.

I don't think it really matters at all if Karen plays there or not,
but I do think it's better if we "stick together". I'll take my
business elsewhere and try to get others to do so also. There is still
lots of good video poker around at other places.
Sal

#4

I'm in the group that believes there are very few advantage players who
actually play well enough to make $7 an hour or less from a 100%+ ER game.
I sincerely believe the every single FPDW machine makes a profit for the
casinos. If they did not, FPVP would have been removed a long time ago.
Casinos are simply trying to make MORE profit by downgrading these machines.
DB is not an easy game to play perfectly. In any case, humans are not
perfect and will make mistakes while playing any game, especially when speed
is a contributing factor. I understand that everyone likes to believe that
they can beat these machines. I agree that there are a few who can. But
the number is so small that it is statistically insignificant. IMHO, you
could not find enough perfect DB players to fill a single bank of machines
24/7/365 at the SC. There is only one way to absolutely insure that one
does not contribute a single cent to a casino's bottom line. If you don't
walk in the door, you will absolutely, positively not lose a cent or
contribute to the profit of that venue. On the other hand an optimum player
who spreads his/her play around the remaining venues (Stations, Palms,
Fiesta, Cannery, Tuscany etc.) is not going to negatively affect the bottom
line of that venue. In fact, there is a greater than zero chance that these
players will contribute to the profit of the VP friendly locations rather
than supporting the purveyors of the downgrades.

The reason for the Coasts downgrade is subject to debate. But if the
numbers go down (both profit and players), the changes will be unsuccessful.
This is especially true if the other non-Coast FPDW locations hold the line
and don't participate in the downgrade. I just don't see the upside to any
number of optimum players pounding away at SC or Orleans video poker
machines. Of course, it goes without saying that any other play (sports
bets, table games) at these venues borders on lunacy for anyone interested
in holding the line on the current FPVP inventory in Las Vegas. I also find
it to be completed misguided when one continues to support venues like SC
because they can get a free buffet or want to continue a relationship with
that property for other selfish reasons. These players are the very ones
that will insure the ultimate demise of all full pay video poker games as a
result of their misguided short sightedness.

                                           Rasti$Rulz
                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vp-heaven

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "vp_FREE" <vpFREE@LVCM.com>
To: "vpFREE" <vpFREE@Yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 10:46 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Suncoast Patronage

I think that most of us will agree that the best way to preserve
positive video poker is to educate the masses to demand positive
games, and then have the masses play those games poorly. Spreading
the word to the masses, one on one or through the media, that only
the "really good" games should be played, and that Casino X has
gotten rid of their "really good" games is IMO our most effective
tactic.

Boycotting a casino that doesn't have any positive plays makes sense,
but if a casino has positive plays, then any advantage play by
advantage players hurts the casino. Advantage players don't punish a
casino when they walk. Just the opposite.

In Suncoast's case, a boycott by advantage players is exactly what
they want. They get rid of the FPDW and the unwanted players, while
retaining the 10/7's for advertising purposes. If advantage players
believe that Suncoast may bring back FPDW if bottom line results are
unfavorable, the most effective move by advantage players whould be
to play (and tie up) all of their 10/7 DB machines 24/7.

#5

Well said
David K

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: Video Poker Vegas
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 10:36 AM
  Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Suncoast Patronage

  I'm in the group that believes there are very few advantage players who
  actually play well enough to make $7 an hour or less from a 100%+ ER game.
  I sincerely believe the every single FPDW machine makes a profit for the
  casinos. If they did not, FPVP would have been removed a long time ago.
  Casinos are simply trying to make MORE profit by downgrading these machines.
  DB is not an easy game to play perfectly. In any case, humans are not
  perfect and will make mistakes while playing any game, especially when speed
  is a contributing factor. I understand that everyone likes to believe that
  they can beat these machines. I agree that there are a few who can. But
  the number is so small that it is statistically insignificant. IMHO, you
  could not find enough perfect DB players to fill a single bank of machines
  24/7/365 at the SC. There is only one way to absolutely insure that one
  does not contribute a single cent to a casino's bottom line. If you don't
  walk in the door, you will absolutely, positively not lose a cent or
  contribute to the profit of that venue. On the other hand an optimum player
  who spreads his/her play around the remaining venues (Stations, Palms,
  Fiesta, Cannery, Tuscany etc.) is not going to negatively affect the bottom
  line of that venue. In fact, there is a greater than zero chance that these
  players will contribute to the profit of the VP friendly locations rather
  than supporting the purveyors of the downgrades.

  The reason for the Coasts downgrade is subject to debate. But if the
  numbers go down (both profit and players), the changes will be unsuccessful.
  This is especially true if the other non-Coast FPDW locations hold the line
  and don't participate in the downgrade. I just don't see the upside to any
  number of optimum players pounding away at SC or Orleans video poker
  machines. Of course, it goes without saying that any other play (sports
  bets, table games) at these venues borders on lunacy for anyone interested
  in holding the line on the current FPVP inventory in Las Vegas. I also find
  it to be completed misguided when one continues to support venues like SC
  because they can get a free buffet or want to continue a relationship with
  that property for other selfish reasons. These players are the very ones
  that will insure the ultimate demise of all full pay video poker games as a
  result of their misguided short sightedness.

                                             Rasti$Rulz
                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vp-heaven

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "vp_FREE" <vpFREE@LVCM.com>
  To: "vpFREE" <vpFREE@Yahoogroups.com>
  Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2003 10:46 PM
  Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Suncoast Patronage

  >
  >
  > I think that most of us will agree that the best way to preserve
  > positive video poker is to educate the masses to demand positive
  > games, and then have the masses play those games poorly. Spreading
  > the word to the masses, one on one or through the media, that only
  > the "really good" games should be played, and that Casino X has
  > gotten rid of their "really good" games is IMO our most effective
  > tactic.
  >
  > Boycotting a casino that doesn't have any positive plays makes sense,
  > but if a casino has positive plays, then any advantage play by
  > advantage players hurts the casino. Advantage players don't punish a
  > casino when they walk. Just the opposite.
  >
  > In Suncoast's case, a boycott by advantage players is exactly what
  > they want. They get rid of the FPDW and the unwanted players, while
  > retaining the 10/7's for advertising purposes. If advantage players
  > believe that Suncoast may bring back FPDW if bottom line results are
  > unfavorable, the most effective move by advantage players whould be
  > to play (and tie up) all of their 10/7 DB machines 24/7.

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