vpFREE2 Forums

Sun report; new pick'em's

#1

I played $1 PKM last week for 15 hours and earned 450 points, lost
$100, got 3 quads. Overall theo was 5.35% and they have definitely
lowered the theo rating ~.5% from the end of February as I keep
fairly precise notes. These are the same machines in Sky that I was
getting just under 6% previously. Also, it seems there may be a small
adjustment for length of time played as well as actual W/L.

Also, last week I saw an abscence of Pick 'Em on the Bally website
and thought that might be the end of the game. Well last night,
several of the new Bally LCD multi-games have been shut-down and been
replaced with the Pick 'Em faceplate (same console however). The new
game is now on the Bally website here:
http://ballytech.com/gameroom/game.cfm?id=1182
[There are links to interesting info such as game specs, par sheets,
and platform manuals "For Professional Gaming Industry Members Only"
if you fill out a simple form for user name and password. If anyone
gets that info, I won't say anything if you let me know.]
Apparently, the programmers want to give the game its own platform,
separate from the other multi-VP games since it is a unique game that
does not have 5 cards laid down on the draw. Good news in that the
game is not going away, but probably bad news in that it looks like
the game is isolated and won't have such fortunately terrible games
like Crazy Clowns to water up the theo %. We may keep our points, but
lose half of our marketing and comp offers.

#2

Stevie,
Are you saying that the Pickem's at Sun are now the only game on the
machines? That is very strange when "customer's now demand choice."
haaljo in Boston

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "steviemcc1"
<steviemcc1@...> wrote:

I played $1 PKM last week for 15 hours and earned 450 points, lost
$100, got 3 quads. Overall theo was 5.35% and they have definitely
lowered the theo rating ~.5% from the end of February as I keep
fairly precise notes. These are the same machines in Sky that I

was

getting just under 6% previously. Also, it seems there may be a

small

adjustment for length of time played as well as actual W/L.

Also, last week I saw an abscence of Pick 'Em on the Bally website
and thought that might be the end of the game. Well last night,
several of the new Bally LCD multi-games have been shut-down and

been

replaced with the Pick 'Em faceplate (same console however). The

new

game is now on the Bally website here:
http://ballytech.com/gameroom/game.cfm?id=1182
[There are links to interesting info such as game specs, par

sheets,

and platform manuals "For Professional Gaming Industry Members

Only"

if you fill out a simple form for user name and password. If

anyone

gets that info, I won't say anything if you let me know.]
Apparently, the programmers want to give the game its own platform,
separate from the other multi-VP games since it is a unique game

that

does not have 5 cards laid down on the draw. Good news in that the
game is not going away, but probably bad news in that it looks like
the game is isolated and won't have such fortunately terrible games
like Crazy Clowns to water up the theo %. We may keep our points,

but

···

lose half of our marketing and comp offers.

#3

It appears so, but they only changed 2-3 in any cluster or row of the
Multi-Game Poker Suites which are listed on the Bally site:
http://ballytech.com/gameroom/game_plat.cfm?id=2
The description includes all the major 5-card VP but definitely
leaves out Pick'Em. The other 5-card deal VP games are more similar
to each other. JoB is the same game as BP or DB with a different pay
schedule where bonus quads pay the same as regular quads and high
pairs = 1 instead of 0. Donald Graham said it took a lot more work
to add PKM and OEJ to ViPoker. Notice the multi-game Suite does not
include Keno or slot games either. It should be easier to make
software changes and possibly randomize better.

Stevie,
Are you saying that the Pickem's at Sun are now the only game on

the

···

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "haaljo" <haaljo@...> wrote:

machines? That is very strange when "customer's now demand choice."
haaljo in Boston

#4

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "steviemcc1"
<steviemcc1@...> wrote:

JoB is the same game as BP or DB with a different pay

schedule where bonus quads pay the same as regular quads and high
pairs = 1 instead of 0.

Stevie, What does high pairs = 1 instead of 0 mean?

Donald Graham said it took a lot more work

to add PKM and OEJ to ViPoker. Notice the multi-game Suite does

not

include Keno or slot games either. It should be easier to make
software changes and possibly randomize better.

I understand some things take a lot more work. I also see most
players switch to other games from time to time which is now not
possible on the Cinevision PE machines. Seems to be poor business
decision when customers want choice. I thought ease of software
changes and randomizing issues were not issues nowadays.
Not impressed with the Bally's website you referenced as well.
I'd try to sign up for a username and password but they "appear" to
be closely vetting requests.
Thanks for the info.
haaljo in Boston

#5

High pairs pay one credit vs. zero credit; when something pays 0,
it's just left off the display paytable.

When making software changes containing different types of games, the
program gets very big and harder to follow; some variables are shared
between games (like credits), while others are not (like cards in the
deck with keno numbers). It's very easy for mistakes to unwittingly
be made. Sometimes it can be as simple as intitializing or
uninitializing a variable. Multiple people get involved in the
programming and then they get replaced with new people just like with
any other company. Sometimes a mistake or flaw will not get caught
for years. And full adequate testing is hard to achieve or might
take years as well as the number of permutations of a game approaches
a quintillion. Ever since the video game boom of the 80's, kids have
constantly been finding quirks, patterns, and tricks, that eventually
got published in books and gamer magazines. Most of those were not
intentionally made. On my favorite game Tempest, the designer
changed one line segment on the Atari logo to make it hard for
Japanese bootleggers to copy the game. The result: whenever a
players final score was between 180000 and 200000 and the last two
digits were 46, 40 free credits would rack up. We played for free
for 3 months until Atari could patch that up. Just recently you saw
Pick'Em changed to show the middle right card first. Randomizing
issues are and still will be an issue in years to come. For one, a
computer can not generate a number big enough to represent the
possible order of every card in a deck, in the half-second it takes a
player to hit the deal button. I'll readdress this later, but
randomization issues can never explained briefly.

···

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "haaljo" <haaljo@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "steviemcc1"
<steviemcc1@> wrote:
>
JoB is the same game as BP or DB with a different pay
> schedule where bonus quads pay the same as regular quads and high
> pairs = 1 instead of 0.

Stevie, What does high pairs = 1 instead of 0 mean?

Donald Graham said it took a lot more work
> to add PKM and OEJ to ViPoker. Notice the multi-game Suite does
not
> include Keno or slot games either. It should be easier to make
> software changes and possibly randomize better.
>
I understand some things take a lot more work. I also see most
players switch to other games from time to time which is now not
possible on the Cinevision PE machines. Seems to be poor business
decision when customers want choice. I thought ease of software
changes and randomizing issues were not issues nowadays.
Not impressed with the Bally's website you referenced as well.
I'd try to sign up for a username and password but they "appear" to
be closely vetting requests.
Thanks for the info.
haaljo in Boston

#6

The new Pick'Ems are up. Haaljo, Bally heard you so now the new
machines house Pick'Em, Bonus Pick'Em, Double Double Bonus Pick'Em,
Deuces Wild Pick'Em, Bonus Deuces Wild Pick'Em, and 2 different
Joker's Wild Pick'Em. So pick your Pick'Em. Also, all these games
are multi-play from 1-10 hands. I do not have a tool to analyze
their paytables but the best normal ones are in the High Limit area
and they are on new $2 machines. Paytable is: 10 15 20 60 75 100 600
1200 10000. Using extrapolation, I can guesstimate that to be
roughly 98.2% :frowning: The lowering of the 3 of a Kind causes a brutal 3%
drop in the EV by itself. Also, lowering the common hands and
raising the higher ones always raises the variance as well. I want
to fall asleep playing the game and only play it because it has the
highest returning dollar game. It would be better for us and the
casino if they went in the other direction and gave us a positive
harder game like AA or OEJ where the casino would make up the
difference by normal people's mistakes, while our wins would create
incentive for others to play more. Finally, I would like to nominate
haaljo as vpFREE_NewEngland's new Director of VP Operations and
Gaming Analyst, so that he can get a username and password to Bally's
website. :slight_smile:

···

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "haaljo" <haaljo@...> wrote:

I understand some things take a lot more work. I also see most
players switch to other games from time to time which is now not
possible on the Cinevision PE machines. Seems to be poor business
decision when customers want choice. I thought ease of software
changes and randomizing issues were not issues nowadays.
Not impressed with the Bally's website you referenced as well.
I'd try to sign up for a username and password but they "appear" to
be closely vetting requests.
Thanks for the info.
haaljo in Boston

#7

---StevI ran the schedule on winpoker and the reutrn is 98.1743. Good
guess
Mel

In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "steviemcc1" <steviemcc1@...>
wrote:

  The new Pick'Ems are up. Haaljo, Bally heard you so now the new
machines house Pick'Em, Bonus Pick'Em, Double Double Bonus Pick'Em,
Deuces Wild Pick'Em, Bonus Deuces Wild Pick'Em, and 2 different
Joker's Wild Pick'Em. So pick your Pick'Em. Also, all these games
are multi-play from 1-10 hands. I do not have a tool to analyze
their paytables but the best normal ones are in the High Limit area
and they are on new $2 machines. Paytable is: 10 15 20 60 75 100

600

1200 10000. Using extrapolation, I can guesstimate that to be
roughly 98.2% :frowning: The lowering of the 3 of a Kind causes a brutal

3%

drop in the EV by itself. Also, lowering the common hands and
raising the higher ones always raises the variance as well. I want
to fall asleep playing the game and only play it because it has the
highest returning dollar game. It would be better for us and the
casino if they went in the other direction and gave us a positive
harder game like AA or OEJ where the casino would make up the
difference by normal people's mistakes, while our wins would create
incentive for others to play more. Finally, I would like to

nominate

haaljo as vpFREE_NewEngland's new Director of VP Operations and
Gaming Analyst, so that he can get a username and password to

Bally's

website. :slight_smile:

> I understand some things take a lot more work. I also see most
> players switch to other games from time to time which is now not
> possible on the Cinevision PE machines. Seems to be poor business
> decision when customers want choice. I thought ease of software
> changes and randomizing issues were not issues nowadays.
> Not impressed with the Bally's website you referenced as well.
> I'd try to sign up for a username and password but they "appear"

to

···

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "haaljo" <haaljo@> wrote:
> be closely vetting requests.
> Thanks for the info.
> haaljo in Boston
>

#8

No doubt, there will be people attracted to the higher pays in
straight, full house, and royal, and not care what the 3oaK pays.

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "mel3dmdmsncom" <mel3dmd@...>
wrote:

···

---StevI ran the schedule on winpoker and the reutrn is 98.1743. Good
guess
Mel