vpFREE2 Forums

Strange Happening Today at Barona

#1

I had been playing Bonus Poker Deluxe and White Hot Aces today on one
of the ten "close-to-full-pay" 25c machines at the Barona Indian
Casino near San Diego. I was up about $150 after approx an hour's
play, when something happened that surprised me greatly. A woman in a
uniform that I assume was that of a slot technician came up to me. She
said that I needed to be momentarily "un-carded". I asked what this
means. She said something like 'something has been sent over to the
machine', and she had to check if it was OK. This involved pulling my
card out, and putting hers in. I protested that this would erase the
display of my point total for the day. (I have been periodically
recording the point total, and thus the hand count, as well as the
credit balance for later analysis so that I get a better idea of what
results are likely to be common longer-term, and what is unusual.)

She seemed insistent on it, so of course I had to agree. I finished my
hand, pressed "Draw", and recorded my point total. Then she pulled out
my card. She held mine while her own went in. I saw the display for
her card, and it said "Welcome Slot Player [instead of a person's
name] you have 3 points." After doing this, she put my card back in.

Now, what is this about? I have been playing there regularly these
past few weeks (just occasionally before that). I've been playing a
pretty tight game on these machines, with a "perfect strategy" sheet
for each game in front of me when needed, and have on average been
walking out of the casino with more money than I brought in. In other
words, whenever I get significantly ahead, I cash out and go home. I
wondered if somehow they were trying to "check up" on me? This did not
seem to be part of any casino-wide inspection or update of machines,
although this same woman did also later "de-card" the guy sitting next
to me, but nobody else as far as I was aware. This guy had just
recently been hand-paid a wad of bills (without leaving the machine),
presumably he got a Royal while playing 50c or $1. (He had been
smoking a vile cigar most of the time, and looked sort of gruff, so I
did not feel inclined to go over and chat.) Is it possible that they
were "checking up" on people who seemed to be doing 'too well'? Or am
I just being paranoid?

    Roberto-Tenore

#2

They don't need to put a card in to "check up" on you. By playing
with a tracking card they know exactly what coin you have put in,
what came out and any hand paid jackpots you might have received.
That is how you earn your points.

What they were doing could have been explained better, but basically
they were updating the "content" on the iView screen (the screen you
were looking at for your points). Barona had been running a
promotion called Rapid Fire which awarded 1,000.00 to a random carded
player every 15 minutes. After the promotion was over new content
needed to be loaded to the iViews. There is a mechanism for doing
this that is imperfect. Most games got the download when it was
pushed out to the floor. Many games did not. They required a tech
to go to the stubborn machines and "force" the issue. The content
would not download when a guest had a card in so the Tech needed to
pull your card and insert theirs to check the content.

There is nothing that a tech or floorperson can do from the outside
of a machine to change the settings on the game that would impact the
outcome of a game. So – yes, you are being a little paranoid. It is
hoped that a guest is never required to stop playing – that is the
goal. There is nothing that disturbs a casino more than asking a
player not to play so be assured that it is with great reluctance
that they asked you to stop while they updated the iView.

I had been playing Bonus Poker Deluxe and White Hot Aces today on

one

of the ten "close-to-full-pay" 25c machines at the Barona Indian
Casino near San Diego. I was up about $150 after approx an hour's
play, when something happened that surprised me greatly. A woman in

a

uniform that I assume was that of a slot technician came up to me.

She

said that I needed to be momentarily "un-carded". I asked what this
means. She said something like 'something has been sent over to the
machine', and she had to check if it was OK. This involved pulling

my

card out, and putting hers in. I protested that this would erase the
display of my point total for the day. (I have been periodically
recording the point total, and thus the hand count, as well as the
credit balance for later analysis so that I get a better idea of

what

results are likely to be common longer-term, and what is unusual.)

She seemed insistent on it, so of course I had to agree. I finished

my

hand, pressed "Draw", and recorded my point total. Then she pulled

out

my card. She held mine while her own went in. I saw the display for
her card, and it said "Welcome Slot Player [instead of a person's
name] you have 3 points." After doing this, she put my card back in.

Now, what is this about? I have been playing there regularly these
past few weeks (just occasionally before that). I've been playing a
pretty tight game on these machines, with a "perfect strategy" sheet
for each game in front of me when needed, and have on average been
walking out of the casino with more money than I brought in. In

other

words, whenever I get significantly ahead, I cash out and go home. I
wondered if somehow they were trying to "check up" on me? This did

not

seem to be part of any casino-wide inspection or update of machines,
although this same woman did also later "de-card" the guy sitting

next

to me, but nobody else as far as I was aware. This guy had just
recently been hand-paid a wad of bills (without leaving the

machine),

presumably he got a Royal while playing 50c or $1. (He had been
smoking a vile cigar most of the time, and looked sort of gruff, so

I

did not feel inclined to go over and chat.) Is it possible that they
were "checking up" on people who seemed to be doing 'too well'? Or

am

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tenore_s" <tenore_s@...> wrote:

I just being paranoid?

    Roberto-Tenore

#3

Roberto,

There is nothing that they could "check up on" by removing your card that they do not already have.

Chances are there was a brief communication problem between the main computer and a few machines in that area. A trouble message may have been generated and they needed to interrupt your session (by inserting a different player's card) to force some transaction processing.

This may not be the explanation but is one possibility.

Bill

···

At 12:53 AM 1/27/2009, you wrote:

I had been playing Bonus Poker Deluxe and White Hot Aces today on one
of the ten "close-to-full-pay" 25c machines at the Barona Indian
Casino near San Diego. I was up about $150 after approx an hour's
play, when something happened that surprised me greatly. A woman in a
uniform that I assume was that of a slot technician came up to me. She
said that I needed to be momentarily "un-carded". I asked what this
means. She said something like 'something has been sent over to the
machine', and she had to check if it was OK. This involved pulling my
card out, and putting hers in. I protested that this would erase the
display of my point total for the day. (I have been periodically
recording the point total, and thus the hand count, as well as the
credit balance for later analysis so that I get a better idea of what
results are likely to be common longer-term, and what is unusual.)

She seemed insistent on it, so of course I had to agree. I finished my
hand, pressed "Draw", and recorded my point total. Then she pulled out
my card. She held mine while her own went in. I saw the display for
her card, and it said "Welcome Slot Player [instead of a person's
name] you have 3 points." After doing this, she put my card back in.

Now, what is this about? I have been playing there regularly these
past few weeks (just occasionally before that). I've been playing a
pretty tight game on these machines, with a "perfect strategy" sheet
for each game in front of me when needed, and have on average been
walking out of the casino with more money than I brought in. In other
words, whenever I get significantly ahead, I cash out and go home. I
wondered if somehow they were trying to "check up" on me? This did not
seem to be part of any casino-wide inspection or update of machines,
although this same woman did also later "de-card" the guy sitting next
to me, but nobody else as far as I was aware. This guy had just
recently been hand-paid a wad of bills (without leaving the machine),
presumably he got a Royal while playing 50c or $1. (He had been
smoking a vile cigar most of the time, and looked sort of gruff, so I
did not feel inclined to go over and chat.) Is it possible that they
were "checking up" on people who seemed to be doing 'too well'? Or am
I just being paranoid?

    Roberto-Tenore

------------------------------------

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#4

The strategy sheet at the casino is probably not a very good idea,
dontcha think? Would you bring a copy of "Blackjack Attack" to the
blackjack table?

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tenore_s" <tenore_s@...> wrote:

I've been playing a
pretty tight game on these machines, with a "perfect strategy" sheet
for each game in front of me when needed, and have on average been
walking out of the casino with more money than I brought in.

#5

I've got a suggestion. Continue what you're doing with regard to
keeping track of points (coin-in) and results, but leave the strategy
sheet at home and learn to play well enough without it. And then,
don't be too concerned with daily results. Look at your results after
a million hands.(or more) If, as you said, you want to get a "feel"
for what to expect, get some software and play around with high speed
simulation.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tenore_s" <tenore_s@...> wrote:

I had been playing Bonus Poker Deluxe and White Hot Aces today on one
of the ten "close-to-full-pay" 25c machines at the Barona Indian
Casino near San Diego. I was up about $150 after approx an hour's
play, when something happened that surprised me greatly. A woman in a
uniform that I assume was that of a slot technician came up to me. She
said that I needed to be momentarily "un-carded". I asked what this
means. She said something like 'something has been sent over to the
machine', and she had to check if it was OK. This involved pulling my
card out, and putting hers in. I protested that this would erase the
display of my point total for the day. (I have been periodically
recording the point total, and thus the hand count, as well as the
credit balance for later analysis so that I get a better idea of what
results are likely to be common longer-term, and what is unusual.)

She seemed insistent on it, so of course I had to agree. I finished my
hand, pressed "Draw", and recorded my point total. Then she pulled out
my card. She held mine while her own went in. I saw the display for
her card, and it said "Welcome Slot Player [instead of a person's
name] you have 3 points." After doing this, she put my card back in.

Now, what is this about? I have been playing there regularly these
past few weeks (just occasionally before that). I've been playing a
pretty tight game on these machines, with a "perfect strategy" sheet
for each game in front of me when needed, and have on average been
walking out of the casino with more money than I brought in. In other
words, whenever I get significantly ahead, I cash out and go home. I
wondered if somehow they were trying to "check up" on me? This did not
seem to be part of any casino-wide inspection or update of machines,
although this same woman did also later "de-card" the guy sitting next
to me, but nobody else as far as I was aware. This guy had just
recently been hand-paid a wad of bills (without leaving the machine),
presumably he got a Royal while playing 50c or $1. (He had been
smoking a vile cigar most of the time, and looked sort of gruff, so I
did not feel inclined to go over and chat.) Is it possible that they
were "checking up" on people who seemed to be doing 'too well'? Or am
I just being paranoid?

    Roberto-Tenore

#6

My only comment is to say that I have sat next to and played with well-
known experts (who have published books, software, etc) and the
strategy sheet was still in evidence, just reduced in size so as to be
discreet. I have been known to take a quick glance myself if it's a
complicated play. If you can play perfectly and move from game to game
quickly without written assistance then more power to you.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "popinjay999" <popinjay999@...> wrote:

I've got a suggestion. Continue what you're doing with regard to
keeping track of points (coin-in) and results, but leave the strategy
sheet at home and learn to play well enough without it.

#7

Very likely this is "content update" is exactly what happened. Thank
you for explaining it to us. In years of playing I had never been
"de-carded" before.

As for the strategy sheet, I see no reason at all why it cannot stay.
I only look at it for tricky hands, to make sure that my recollection
is correct. And yes, I do often see people with Blackjack Strategy
cards on the Blackjack table. There seems to be no problem with that
at all.

     Roberto-Tenore

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nickdanger77" <darrellg@...> wrote:

They don't need to put a card in to "check up" on you. By playing
with a tracking card they know exactly what coin you have put in,
what came out and any hand paid jackpots you might have received.
That is how you earn your points.

What they were doing could have been explained better, but basically
they were updating the "content" on the iView screen (the screen you
were looking at for your points). Barona had been running a
promotion called Rapid Fire which awarded 1,000.00 to a random carded
player every 15 minutes. After the promotion was over new content
needed to be loaded to the iViews. There is a mechanism for doing
this that is imperfect. Most games got the download when it was
pushed out to the floor. Many games did not. They required a tech
to go to the stubborn machines and "force" the issue. The content
would not download when a guest had a card in so the Tech needed to
pull your card and insert theirs to check the content.

There is nothing that a tech or floorperson can do from the outside
of a machine to change the settings on the game that would impact the
outcome of a game. So – yes, you are being a little paranoid. It is
hoped that a guest is never required to stop playing – that is the
goal. There is nothing that disturbs a casino more than asking a
player not to play so be assured that it is with great reluctance
that they asked you to stop while they updated the iView.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tenore_s" <tenore_s@> wrote:
>
>
> I had been playing Bonus Poker Deluxe and White Hot Aces today on
one
> of the ten "close-to-full-pay" 25c machines at the Barona Indian
> Casino near San Diego. I was up about $150 after approx an hour's
> play, when something happened that surprised me greatly. A woman in
a
> uniform that I assume was that of a slot technician came up to me.
She
> said that I needed to be momentarily "un-carded". I asked what this
> means. She said something like 'something has been sent over to the
> machine', and she had to check if it was OK. This involved pulling
my
> card out, and putting hers in. I protested that this would erase the
> display of my point total for the day. (I have been periodically
> recording the point total, and thus the hand count, as well as the
> credit balance for later analysis so that I get a better idea of
what
> results are likely to be common longer-term, and what is unusual.)
>
> She seemed insistent on it, so of course I had to agree. I finished
my
> hand, pressed "Draw", and recorded my point total. Then she pulled
out
> my card. She held mine while her own went in. I saw the display for
> her card, and it said "Welcome Slot Player [instead of a person's
> name] you have 3 points." After doing this, she put my card back in.
>
> Now, what is this about? I have been playing there regularly these
> past few weeks (just occasionally before that). I've been playing a
> pretty tight game on these machines, with a "perfect strategy" sheet
> for each game in front of me when needed, and have on average been
> walking out of the casino with more money than I brought in. In
other
> words, whenever I get significantly ahead, I cash out and go home. I
> wondered if somehow they were trying to "check up" on me? This did
not
> seem to be part of any casino-wide inspection or update of machines,
> although this same woman did also later "de-card" the guy sitting
next
> to me, but nobody else as far as I was aware. This guy had just
> recently been hand-paid a wad of bills (without leaving the
machine),
> presumably he got a Royal while playing 50c or $1. (He had been
> smoking a vile cigar most of the time, and looked sort of gruff, so
I
> did not feel inclined to go over and chat.) Is it possible that they
> were "checking up" on people who seemed to be doing 'too well'? Or
am
> I just being paranoid?
>
> Roberto-Tenore
>

#8

  There is nothing that disturbs a casino more than asking a

player not to play...

He,he,he. I know I'm taking this statement WAY out of context, but
there are a lot of good blackjack players, and some video poker
players as well, who would disagree.

EE

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nickdanger77" <darrellg@...> wrote:

#9

You should read Dancer's "Million Dollar Video Poker" if you think
winning video poker players don't get "backed off". Then read
Nersesian's "Beat the Players" for the more interesting stuff that
happens. Ask Dancer or Jean Scott what they think of using strategy
sheets at a casino.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tenore_s" <tenore_s@...> wrote:

As for the strategy sheet, I see no reason at all why it cannot stay.

#10

If you prefer video, Grosejean explains what it takes to beat the casino:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRt377iIN4E

Also, check out the UBT to see players that are generally not allowed
to play in casinos (because they are too good):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfqdylKzFrA