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strange hand in fpdw - help please !

#1

I have been trying to study FPDW on WinPoker and ran into this hand:

4s, 3s, 5h, Jd, Kd

Up to that point I had a 'rule' that with no deuce you only keep the K
if it is suited with a 10, J, or Q AND there are no other cards that
would contribute to a potential winning hand with the K. So, by that
rule, you'd keep the J and K.

Nope -- further investigated by swapping out the Jd for 10d or Qd.
Well, here's where its strange (to me at least): if the hand had a 10d
in place of the Jd, you'd keep both the 10d and the Kd. But you toss
all the cards if its a Jd or Qd.

So, why??? What am I looking at the wrong way???

Thanks in advance

#2

mid-straight possibilities are worth more than kj suited but less than
k10 suited

i learned this from bob dancer reports

Frank

I have been trying to study FPDW on WinPoker and ran into this hand:

4s, 3s, 5h, Jd, Kd

Up to that point I had a 'rule' that with no deuce you only keep the

K

if it is suited with a 10, J, or Q AND there are no other cards that
would contribute to a potential winning hand with the K. So, by that
rule, you'd keep the J and K.

Nope -- further investigated by swapping out the Jd for 10d or Qd.
Well, here's where its strange (to me at least): if the hand had a

10d

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "cambypat@..." <cambypat@...> wrote:

in place of the Jd, you'd keep both the 10d and the Kd. But you toss
all the cards if its a Jd or Qd.

#3

I have been trying to study FPDW on WinPoker and ran into this hand:

4s, 3s, 5h, Jd, Kd

Up to that point I had a 'rule' that with no deuce you only keep

the K

if it is suited with a 10, J, or Q AND there are no other cards

that

would contribute to a potential winning hand with the K. So, by

that

rule, you'd keep the J and K.

Nope -- further investigated by swapping out the Jd for 10d or Qd.
Well, here's where its strange (to me at least): if the hand had a

10d

in place of the Jd, you'd keep both the 10d and the Kd. But you

toss

all the cards if its a Jd or Qd.

So, why??? What am I looking at the wrong way???

Although Frank answered your question I suspect not everyone will
completely understand.

Essentially it gets down to comparing a complete redeal vs. the Kx.
Whenever you are looking at this type of situation the exact cards
being discarded may have different strengths. That is, they can
associate with more cards left in the deck than other cards. This is
exactly the case here. If you check the value in winpoker you will
see that KJ and KT have exact the same value (1.6392). What has
changed is the value of the redeal. Since the Ten makes more
straights and SFs than the Jack or Queen, it has more power than the
Jack or Queen. Therefore, the value of the redeal is increased.

Hope this helps.

Dick

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "cambypat@..." <cambypat@...> wrote:

#4

To put it another way, 10 is a stronger penalty card than J for the
straights that you could try to get by tossing away everything (since
when tossing everything away the draw is still made from the remaining
47 cards, not from 52 cards).

JBQ

···

On Nov 27, 2007 5:47 PM, mroejacks <rgmustain@aol.com> wrote:

— In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "cambypat@…" <cambypat@…> wrote:
>
> I have been trying to study FPDW on WinPoker and ran into this hand:
>
> 4s, 3s, 5h, Jd, Kd
>
> Up to that point I had a 'rule' that with no deuce you only keep
the K
> if it is suited with a 10, J, or Q AND there are no other cards
that
> would contribute to a potential winning hand with the K. So, by
that
> rule, you'd keep the J and K.
>
> Nope – further investigated by swapping out the Jd for 10d or Qd.
> Well, here's where its strange (to me at least): if the hand had a
10d
> in place of the Jd, you'd keep both the 10d and the Kd. But you
toss
> all the cards if its a Jd or Qd.
>
> So, why??? What am I looking at the wrong way???

Although Frank answered your question I suspect not everyone will
completely understand.

Essentially it gets down to comparing a complete redeal vs. the Kx.
Whenever you are looking at this type of situation the exact cards
being discarded may have different strengths. That is, they can
associate with more cards left in the deck than other cards. This is
exactly the case here. If you check the value in winpoker you will
see that KJ and KT have exact the same value (1.6392). What has
changed is the value of the redeal. Since the Ten makes more
straights and SFs than the Jack or Queen, it has more power than the
Jack or Queen. Therefore, the value of the redeal is increased.

Hope this helps.

Dick

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