vpFREE2 Forums

Step Up To The Plate

Oh, Richie Rich. When will you ever learn. But I'll let you off the
hook here. I will put up $350k against yours, that I will be ahead
after 50 sessions of playing MY play strategy with no modifications,
alterations, or anything as stupid (99.2% or less) as the previous
foolish offer with the built-in escape clause. Every session I play
counts, so don't use the feeble excuse that the verifier may not be
there so it doesn't. 24 hrs. notice, and my schedule only. I can get
the Westin to hold the escrow like they did for me before--which they
will be more than happy to do because it'll take probably 15 months
or more to play 50 sessions. They get the interest. We'll wait 2
weeks to begin because I'm going to let my next column belittle the
last bet and the way "Congo" slipped out of it. Then I'll post this
one the next week for public knowledge. you get the atty. to draw up
the papers, and I'll get with TV3 again and see if they believe me
this time around that there really will be a bet.

--- In FREEvpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Brodie" <richard@b...>
wrote:

Rob Singer, an Internet troll who writes an unpaid column for the
advertising circular "Gaming Today" given away in casinos, spins

tall tales

of winning hundreds of thousands of dollars using his Martingale

progression

on negative video-poker games. However, he has refused to bet

anyone that he

can win consistently and, in a curious smoke screen, when he

refuses to take

the bet he declares that is in fact the challenger who has backed

out of the

bet. He has done this a few times so I decided to offer a bet and

document

the ensuing discussion.

Prior to this, I had offered to bet him his $2500 stop-win against

his

$57,200 stop-loss that he would not win any given session of play.

He

pooh-poohed that offer and ridiculed me for offering a bet that

wasn't even

money, saying all fair bets are even money -- this from someone who

claims

to play video poker for a living. Nevertheless:

1) At Singer's request for an even money bet, I posted this:

Tell you what. Here's bet for you: $250,000 that you'll lose money

over the

next 50 sessions of your system, played exclusively on games with

optimal

payback less than 99.2%.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FREEvpFREE/message/2500

2) Singer posted this:

Let me guess what your escape clause is here....OK, I got it. Since
you know I'll win regardless of the pay tables, duh, you know the
logistics of verifying I do what you want is impossible. So that's
how you'll sneak away this time.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FREEvpFREE/message/2502

3) I addressed his concern:

Not at all. We just have to set up a time and place and get a

referee. Any

sessions you play that are not observed by the referee don't count,

but the

bet continues. Do you accept?

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FREEvpFREE/message/2503

4) Singer is petrified at the idea of verification and tries to

ridicule the

idea:

A referee? 50 times in 50 places? Guess why you can't do that,
Einstein. I don't even know what time of day or night I'll be in LV,
Laughlin, Tahoe or Reno or even when until the day before I leave--
and this 'referee' is supposed to be on call 24 hours a day all over
the state for over a year? HA! That's not even a nice try. And
besides, unlike you where you play to feed an addiction, I play for

a

living. That means No Bozos. Now let's see if all that self-
proclaimed intellect can come up with something real, and leave the
theories and sissification at home.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FREEvpFREE/message/2504

5) I hold his feet to the fire:

That's why I said you could play all the unobserved sessions you

want and

they wouldn't count for the bet. Just let us know when and where

and, if the

referee can be there, the session will count for the bet. If not,

we'll just

go to the next one. Eventually we'll get 50. If you chicken out and

stop

playing you lose the bet. So now we're down to your last-ditch

objection,

that your system doesn't work if anyone is watching. So how about

it? Are

you willing to put your money where your mouth is?

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FREEvpFREE/message/2505

6) He pretends to accept, but immediately changes the key condition

of the

bet: that all the sessions be verified, saying that he will go at a

moment's

notice anywhere he wants to play and if the verifier misses it we

have to

take his word for it.

OK, let's give it a try. I'll be in Laughlin at the Colorado Belle
tomorrow (Thurs.) overnight - as I typically travel overnight -
somewhere around 2-3am IF I don't stop to sleep somewhere along the
way. If I do then I have no idea when I'll get there. And even if I
don't, if I'm tired when I arrive I'll take a nap first, then play

if

I'm not hungry. And I may even feel like playing next door first at
the Edgewater, or across the street at the Ramada--all depends on

how

I feel whenever it is that I'm ready to play. Many times I start off
in Laughlin then go somewhere in LV or even up to Reno. Depends how

I

feel. If you read my strategy, SCHEDULE is not a part of it, and I
never fly on such trips. Make sure you're verifier has a car that'll
be able to travel at a moment's notice. So who you got to handle
this....and the trips are all similar, regardless of which end of

the

state I decide to start in. Name & number and I'll give him or her a
call right now to get started. $250k over 50 trips. No skipping
trips, and I have one year to complete them. If the verifier doesn't
show then too bad--you take my word for it. So if I were you I'd be
prepared to be that verifier at such sessions. Winner take all if

I'm

$1 ahead by the end. I suggest you also be there tomorrow
night/morning with someone mutually agreeable and with a
recognizeable name that'll take the cash from both of us--which I

can

get tomorrow during the day. I'll forego the objection of having
someone watching me play because I know that person will be far more
uncomfortable than I am. If you accept you will send me your tel.
number by private e-mail, and I will write an article for GT as soon
as you accept putting it up in public so there will be no
misunderstanding. It will be written up exactly as we have here. I
will also get Channel 3 LV to cover the bet story if you agree. If

it

goes the same as the Fezzik bet, we'll both need to be there for
filming at the beginning, when we sign papers--which will be
tomorrow. I say let's do it! Game EV doesn't matter to me.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FREEvpFREE/message/2506

7) I reiterate that if the verifier misses a session it won't count

and that

he doesn't get to call a 2 a.m. meeting in Laughlin, and reiterate,

as we

had discussed in prior bets that he declined, that the play must be

on

negative games:

Let's get the cash and the referee taken care of before we start

talking

about 2 a.m. anything.

If it's too last-minute, we'll just skip it and go on to the next

session.

The bet is $250k that you will lose money playing exclusively games

with an

optimal return of 99.2% at most over 50 sessions of your system,

where you

must win $2500 or lose $57,200.

<<No skipping trips, and I have one year to complete them. If the

verifier

doesn't show then too bad--you take my word for it.>>

Nope. That wasn't the bet. I explicitly said 50 verified sessions,

and if

one isn't verified we go on to the next one.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FREEvpFREE/message/2508

8) Singer lists a number of games all of which have paytables that

return

over 99.2% and says he will play those. He clarifies the win and

loss goals

for his strategy. He refuses to accept the bet unless the rules are

that the

verifier must keep up with him for 50 straight last-minute trips:

I play BP and then 10/7 DB, SDB, TBP+, DDB, or Super Aces in that
order, and I don't care who has what. I just sit down where I'm
comfortable, and whatever game is there is the one I play. You don't
have to worry about the higher limits because few places carry
>99.2%, and I'm not gonna fuss over noise-level percentages. Next, I
never lose $57,200 in a session because of the cashouts along the
way. My strategy says that when I'm done I'm done, and I go home win
or lose--however much over the $2500 I am or however much the loss
amount is. It could be $57,200 but it hasn't happened in 250
sessions.

> <<No skipping trips, and I have one year to complete them. If the
verifier doesn't show then too bad--you take my word for it.>>
>
> Nope. That wasn't the bet. I explicitly said 50 verified sessions,
and if one isn't verified we go on to the next one.

That's peanuts and you know it. Don't tell me you're reaching for
your book of escape clauses again. If we're going to do this and I'm
the one playing and travelling, then you'll find a verifier that can
keep up with me for 50 straight sessions/trips. Pick a young guy,
because that's the only type that could handle it.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FREEvpFREE/message/2510

9) I reiterate the terms of the bet, accept his clarification of

win/loss

goals, and take him to task for making unreasonable demands:

In the first place, I'm not going to Laughlin at all or to anywhere

at 2

a.m. You'll need to have the $250k on deposit with someone I trust,

along

with a signed agreement, before I believe you're serious about the

bet. You

already welshed on a $2 million bet with me so obviously you cannot

be

trusted. Beyond that, you've already started your game of modifying

my offer

and then claiming it's I who am weaseling out. I have very little

confidence

that you will ever accept this bet.

The bet was all negative games with optimal paybacks under 99.2%.

I'm OK with keeping the cashouts as long as you follow the strategy

of going

to higher denomination machines when you lose and stopping when you

lose 400

credits at $25 or $100, as your strategy dictates.

<<If we're going to do this and I'm
the one playing and travelling, then you'll find a verifier that can
keep up with me for 50 straight sessions/trips.>>

That was not the bet, and I'm not willing to accept that change.

Since the bet is largely about calling you out as a liar and fraud,

taking

your word for your results simply wouldn't work. If you were on the
up-and-up, we could actually have a schedule. Your midnight-express

story is

just an excuse to keep from being easily verified.

10) He lays down an ultimatum and threatens to libel me in his

unpaid column

for the casino advertising circular. He confabulates the fact that

he likes

to play in the middle of the night in Laughlin with an appointment

to

formalize the bet that was never made. He now calls his unacceptable
modifications "the bet" and accuses me of backing down. He changes

his story

about the previous $2 million bet he welshed on, now backing off

from saying

he won, claiming it was a joke:

Ahhhh....The cowardly side of you already is popping out. So
you're "not going to Laughlin or anywhere else at 2am"? Funny, you
know that's my playing time for nearly every session, and now that
I'm accepting your bet to test MY play strategy, you're suddenly
discomforted by it all. Tough love. You've got until noon today to
confirm that you or your agent will be at the Belle at 2am'ish, with
the cash, or my article will call you out for what you are--a

yellow-

bellied coward with the fear of Rob Singer within. I've got a GT
photographer scheduled and I'm playing my session that will count
towards the 50. There has been no modification of your offer--you
said I am to play MY play strategy and I will not modify any aspect
of it one bit. If you insert modifications to MY strategy then they
will not be accepted because we are betting on MY strategy and MY
strategy only. If you're truly worried about trusting me, just show
up. What'cha got to lose? You can belittle me all you like if
I 'welsh'. When I make a public bet and write a column in GT about
it, they'd have no part of it or me if it weren't as real as the
Fezzik bet.

I'm ready to accept the challenge, I'm ready to publicize the bet

for

validation purposes, I'm ready with the cash tomorrow night, I'm
ready to play my first of 50 sessions while being watched (which is
against my better judgement) and I'm ready with my verifier. This
isn't some stupid war of words for "millions" while I'm pulling your
leg on an Internet forum.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FREEvpFREE/message/2515

11) He posts a set of ground rules, claiming they come from both of

us, when

they are in fact his modifications:

--The bet is $250k each. Congo says I will not be ahead even $1

after

50 sessions of playing MY Play Strategy that has made me over
$645,000 since 1997. I of course know I will, so in essence this is

a

sucker bet.

--There will be no alterations to my play strategy, such as Congo's
requiring me to ONLY play 99.2% games or lower. Most of the time I
do, and since I don't care WHAT the EV is on any game I play ever,
that's asking me to alter my strategy and I expect he's now
understood that he cannot have it both ways. Whatever the game where
I sit pays--8/5 BP or 7/5 or 6/5--that's the one I'll start off

with.

The same with the advanced BP games in all denominations needed.

--As I understand it, I am to have Congo's representative (or maybe
even him at times) watch 50 sessions for verification. Everyone is
aware of what I said up front and long ago time after time that I do
not play on any particular schedule, ever, and that the logistics of
watching me will never be very easy. But Congo said it's not a
problem, thinking we could simply 'skip over' those where there's no
verifier. That makes no sense. Either he's committed to this or he's
not. I'll give 24 hours notice to the verifier along with a window

of

expected play-start, and where. The 'where' may change, but we'll be
together by then. For what's at stake to go along with Congo's big
mouth claiming I'm a 'liar & a fraud' I'd certainly make sure either
the verifier were to be there for sure or I'd be there.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FREEvpFREE/message/2520

12) I reiterate the original bet and address his threats and

objections:

<<You've got until noon today to confirm that you or your agent

will be at

the Belle at 2am'ish, with the cash>>

Uh...no. My bet said nothing about going anywhere at 2 a.m. to sign

an

agreement. Before anything is signed, you must agree to the

original bet:

<99.2% machines only and only verified sessions count. Once we

select a

mutually acceptable referee, I will have an attorney draw up an

iron-clad

agreement, which we will give to an escrow company along with the

$250,000

each. If you are unreasonable about giving advance notice, that can

only be

interpreted as weaseling out of the bet. I will find someone who is

willing

to go to Laughlin in the middle of the night, but with at least a

day's

notice. Only verified sessions count, so you can't get out of the

bet or

cheat by making it difficult for the verifier to find you.

<<my article>>

I suggest you consult an attorney about libel laws before

publication.

<<There has been no modification of your offer--you said I am to

play MY

play strategy and I will not modify any aspect of it one bit. If

you insert

modifications to MY strategy then they will not be accepted because

we are

betting on MY strategy and MY strategy only.>>

You just posted two modifications to my bet and now you lie and say

there

was no modification. Shall I assume that means you are declining

the bet?

<< If you're truly worried about trusting me, just show up.

What'cha got to

lose? You can belittle me all you like if I 'welsh'. When I make a

public

bet and write a column in GT about it, they'd have no part of it or

me if it

weren't as real as the Fezzik bet. >>

You've already welshed and I've already belittled you. I have no

interest in

going to Laughlin ever or anywhere at 2 a.m. Clearly you're awake

during the

day since you spend so much of it making a fool of yourself on this

forum.

I'm not worried about trusting you; I have no trust in you

whatsoever.

<<I'm playing my strategy to the letter without change. That's the

bet,

plain & simple.>>

No. The bet has always been games under 99.2%.

<<I'm ready to accept the challenge, I'm ready to publicize the bet

for

validation purposes, I'm ready with the cash tomorrow night, I'm

ready to

play my first of 50 sessions while being watched (which is against

my better

judgement) and I'm ready with my verifier.>>

You haven't even agreed to the bet yet, so I don't see how you can

say

you're ready for anything.

<< This isn't some stupid war of words for "millions" while I'm

pulling your

leg on an Internet forum.>>

You're referring to the $2 million bet that you welshed on?

<<Maybe you'll be able to spend some of that cash you say you have

suing me,

and we'll see who's got the most money>>

What would I sue you for? Backing out of a bet? I knew you were

going to do

that before I started.

<<Time of day should be of NO ISSUE when there's all that money at

stake.>>

Great. We'll do all the sessions in Las Vegas at 10 a.m. then.

<< To show worry over that trivial point is akin to running

scared.>>

Glad you agree.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FREEvpFREE/message/2524

13) He makes many posts reiterating his ultimatum and threatening

me with

humiliation, whatever that means to him:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FREEvpFREE/message/2525
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FREEvpFREE/message/2526
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FREEvpFREE/message/2530
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FREEvpFREE/message/2531
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FREEvpFREE/message/2533
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FREEvpFREE/message/2534
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FREEvpFREE/message/2535
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FREEvpFREE/message/2538

14) I tell him I'm not interested in his ultimatum or his

modifications and

say I'm presuming he has declined the bet:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FREEvpFREE/message/2539

15) He persists, making up quotes I never wrote, and declaring that

offering

a bet implies that I am willing to be in Laughlin at 2 a.m. in 48

hours. As

is his custom, upon losing or backing out, he declares victory:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FREEvpFREE/message/2540
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FREEvpFREE/message/2541

And so ends this chapter in the sad but curious chapter of Rob

Singer,

Internet troll. If only he had devoted his powers to the forces of

niceness.

ยทยทยท

Cogno