vpFREE2 Forums

Stations Taking More Anti-advantage player measures?

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "John F. Thomas, Jr., Esq."
<jfthomas3@c...> wrote:

>This sounds like you really believe casinos have the manpower (and

VP

>strategy knowledge of every VP game) to track your play, my play

and

>every little old lady that steps through their doors. This just

isn't

>the case.

Dick, do you have reading comprehension issues? You just made my

point for

the rest of the debate in THIS sentence, while continuing to argue

with me

over the rest of the letter.

Actually, I don't have a reading comprehension problem, but you seem
to have a real problem with logic. Your point I was responding to was
that the casinos could watch us with their "eye in the sky" and
examine our skill level. It usually helps to reread the sentence
right above a response. This does nothing to validate any point you
think you may have made.

>IGT may
>not want to take that risk. They gain nothing directly from

providing

>the information to the casino but risk lawsuits by providing the
>information.

How do you risk a lawsuit by doing nothing illegal? Think VERY

carefully

before you answer.

Hmmm, you mean something like the McDonald's law suit for hot coffee.

>OK, if you can give me the mechanism (without the support of the

VP

>manufacturers) that tracks ALL player's accurately and doesn't

have

>prohibitive costs, then please let me know. Just asserting it to

be

>true does not make it true.

Again, I question your reading comprehension skills. It is true

that the

casinos are gathering data on everyone they can. It is also true

that some

players attempt to thwart that data gathering. Can you please tell

me what

one has to do with the other? The point is, the casinos are

gathering data,

and I don't think you can cogently argue otherwise.

So? They can gather all the data they want. I didn't nor would I ever
argue that point. However, if they want to do anything "useful" with
any data they need "good" data. Your point all along is that they can
collect "useful" data by simply tracking your wins. My point is that
it isn't as easy as you assert. Remember it costs them money if they
make bad decisions.

>Oh, but it is. Your assertion is that casinos can just look at

your

>win/loss and determine whether your an advantage player. This is
>simply not true.

Possessive pronouns are not interchangeable with contractions. It's
"You're." Pet peeve.

Good grief.

Secondly, we're back to the reading comprehension point again. The

debate

is about enhanced tracking of so-called "advantage" players by

tracking

their strategy. My point is, the casino is more concerned with

their

win/loss than they are with your playing strategy. Given that

they're

tracking you, then they can determine all they need based on how

much money

you're leaving there. If you're there a lot, and you're earning

comps, and

not leaving a lot of money at the casino on a regular basis, then

believe

me, they know about it -- without having to resort to using software
programs to determine whether you always hold 4 to a flush over 3

to a

straight.

You can continue to argue that point, if you'd like, but as I

pointed out

before -- you made my argument in the first sentence of your reply.

Assertions mean nothing. And, I did not validate any of your
assertions.

>After 10 visits you might be able to to get a "feel" for JOB, but

it

>would take over a 1 million hands to have any idea on DDB and some
>other highly volatile games. Your assumptions just don't hold up
>under any kind of mathematical analysis.

But tracking coin-in and coin-out is relevant immediately -- since

the

casinos know how much you've lost on that trip. Simple. The

casinos know

their long-term odds are good, and the casino isn't going to wait

until

you've played 3 million hands to rate you.

Why? Because all the strategy in the world doesn't affect what

cards you're

dealt -- it only affects what you do with them. Whereas, the

casinos know

immediately what you've won and lost per trip.

Exactly my point. Someone could be terrible player but get dealt 4
aces and a kicker on a DDB triple play. So, by your logic that player
is considered a skillful player.

How do I use this wonderful information to improve the bottom line.
Since this person is "really" a poor player the casino should do
everthing to get them back.

So, how useful was the tracking of win/loss in this case?

>Look at what happened in Detroit. One casino banned players that

made

>money just as you have proposed.

Reading comprehension again. Where did I *ever* "propose" that

casinos

should ban players that make money? Now you're just putting words

in my

mouth.

I'm sorry if I put words in your mouth. If you're not going to ban
them then you might reduce their comps. If collecting win/loss
information as you propose is all the casinos need to do, then they
must be going to do "something" with it. What DO you "propose"?

In any event, it would be the wrong action since it has nothing to do
with the player's actual abilities.

>Now, if the casinos do get together with the game manufacturers

then

>they could know your skill level (whether or not you win or lose)
>based on very limited play.

See the point above, and the very first point made by YOU in

response to

this post.

I see them clearly, try again.

Dick

I see them clearly, try again.

Obviously, you do not. You're right, you don't have a reading comprehension
problem -- you have a basic intelligence problem.

Congratulations, Dick. You win at the Internet! Go collect your prize.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "John F. Thomas, Jr., Esq."
> How do you risk a lawsuit by doing nothing illegal? Think VERY
carefully
> before you answer.

Hmmm, you mean something like the McDonald's law suit for hot

coffee.

Before using this as an example, you should probably try and learn
something of the details of that case. The lawsuit was *not*
frivolous; there was *definite* negligence on the part of McDonald's;
and the woman who brought the suit did *not* become the mega-
millionaire everyone thinks...

Gross negligence can certainly be illegal.

Ken

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rgmustain" <rgmustain@a...> wrote:

Just out of curiosity, and speaking as an attorney, in what way was McDonald's negligent?

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: kkirschner
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 9:26 AM
  Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Stations Taking More Anti-advantage player measures?

  --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rgmustain" <rgmustain@a...> wrote:
  > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "John F. Thomas, Jr., Esq."
  > > How do you risk a lawsuit by doing nothing illegal? Think VERY
  > carefully
  > > before you answer.
  >
  > Hmmm, you mean something like the McDonald's law suit for hot
  coffee.
  >

  Before using this as an example, you should probably try and learn
  something of the details of that case. The lawsuit was *not*
  frivolous; there was *definite* negligence on the part of McDonald's;
  and the woman who brought the suit did *not* become the mega-
  millionaire everyone thinks...

  Gross negligence can certainly be illegal.

  Ken

  vpFREE Links:

  http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/VP/Links.htm

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