vpFREE2 Forums

Stations Taking More Anti-advantage player measures?

#1

In a message dated 3/12/2004 7:10:50 AM Pacific Standard Time,
vpFREE@yahoogroups.com writes:
<<< Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 01:43:37 -0000

Not so quick, the "once it's programmed in" comment bears further
analysis. That's where it gets "arduous". Unless all information
about every hand played on every machine is communicated to a central
server, the only place skill levels can be managed is within the VP
machine itself. It really makes sense within the VP machine since
each hand can be analyzed and the only data stored could be the
player's overall skill level for the session. But if it's not done
there, you have a "arduous" programming job.

Now the big question is whether IGT, Ballys, etc. want to get into
this quagmire. I wouldn't if I were them. I'm not even sure it's
legal. Just the potential for a class action lawsuit about privacy
issues could make any VP machine manufacturer keep away.

Even if we give up our privacy rights when we sign up for a player's
card it may still be a problem. Not everyone uses a card. Bill Velek,
what do you think?

Are you saying that a tickler list keeping track of minor, moderate & major
errors like we have in WinPoker would not be good enough to determine whether a
player is a skillful player?

One criterion would be if a player made only minor errors over an extended
period of time that person would be a skillful player. I wouldn't need to
analyze every hand. Of course, it's a macro approach & the player could have been
just very "lucky" but you know the odds are heavily against that.

Maybe I'm missing something here but why does it need to be complicated?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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From: "rgmustain" <rgmustain@att.net>
Subject: Re: Stations Taking More Anti-advantage player measures?

#2

Now the big question is whether IGT, Ballys, etc. want to get into
this quagmire. I wouldn't if I were them. I'm not even sure it's
legal. Just the potential for a class action lawsuit about privacy
issues could make any VP machine manufacturer keep away.

Why would you think this is a privacy issue? Casinos can watch, for example,
every single bet you make on a BJ table, especially when the cards are dealt
face up. They always have been able to. You're betting on their machines,
on their property. I don't think you'd have any reasonable expectation of
privacy as to what buttons you might hit on someone else's computer.

Are you saying that a tickler list keeping track of minor, moderate & major

errors like we have in WinPoker would not be good enough to determine
whether a player is a skillful player?

Does it really matter whether someone is skillful, or lucky? To the casino,
it's irrelevant. Sure, they *could* monitor your playing strategy, the
technology exists to do it right now, but I'd doubt they'd bother. I think
they'd be far more interested in your actual return as compared to the
theoretical (or their expected for the machine, which may differ
significantly than the theoretical maximum), and all they'd have to do is
monitor your coin in and coin out and play time for that -- WHICH THEY
ALREADY DO, without it being a privacy issue, either. :slight_smile:

The casino cares about one thing -- their hold. If you are consistently
giving them a lower hold than other players, then whether because you're
amazingly skilled or amazingly lucky the end result for the casino is the
same.

#3

Are you saying that a tickler list keeping track of minor, moderate

& major

errors like we have in WinPoker would not be good enough to

determine whether a

player is a skillful player?

Of course it would, but this information is really only available to
the VP machine, not directly to the casino.

Maybe I'm missing something here but why does it need to be

complicated?

To determine the amount of error you need to analyze all possible
selections for any given hand. There are 32 of them as winpoker so
nicely depicts when you ask for hand analysis. One of these
selections is the "throw five" option which requires summing all
possible redeal results and dividing by a little over 1.5 million.
The error is then the difference between the "best" selection and the
players' selection.

I don't think anyone is going to do this in their heads but it's
pretty easy for a computer. Unfortunately, the casino itself does not
have access any of the "input" information required (the dealt hands
and the players selections). That's all internal to the VP machine.

That's the real question at hand. Will the VP machine makers pass
this information along to the casinos? What would be their
motivation? Would there be any pitfalls?

Dick

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, TedChee@a... wrote: