Since it is dealt from one deck and therefore, unless dealt, it is
impossible to have multiple royals, doesn't that make it less than the
ev of a one line or ten play, etc.
You pay for 9 games but do not really get 9 games (re: royals)
Please explain
Spin Poker
--- In vpFREE@y..., Elliott L. Shapiro <eshapiro@j...> wrote:
Since it is dealt from one deck and therefore, unless dealt, it is
impossible to have multiple royals, doesn't that make it less than
the
ev of a one line or ten play, etc.
You pay for 9 games but do not really get 9 games (re: royals)
Please explain
Elliott, I remember this question coming up before and someone, I
believe Jim Morgan, answered it this way. Take a one-card draw to a
royal. On 10-play, each time it is a 1 in 47 shot. With Spinpoker,
the first draw is 1 in 47, if you don't get the royal the next draw
is 1 in 46, and again if you fail the next draw is 1 in 45. Also,
you can get mutiple royals depending on where the original four line
up across and on which line you draw the royal. In 10-play if you
draw the royal card you only get one royal for that particular draw;
in Spinpoker drawing that one card can net you as many as three
royals. According to the post I remember, it all works out to the
same EV. I don't remember if it was Jim Morgan or not, but it was
either him or another poster that is never wrong about the math
(TomSki, Randy C. type).
<<<
Since it is dealt from one deck and therefore, unless dealt, it is
impossible to have multiple royals, doesn't that make it less than the
ev of a one line or ten play, etc.
You pay for 9 games but do not really get 9 games (re: royals)
Please explain
If you watch Spin poker, you will see that it starts
as a normal VP game. You get dealt 5 cards and make one of
the 32 possible holds. Once that is done, you see the
game do something odd looking. Each card you hold will
be copied into the rows above and below the center line.
Then, for each card you discard, you get a new card in each
line. Finally, the game draws 9 lines through the resulting
matrix of cards. These lines are your nine hands.
Suppose you are dealt AsKsQsJs5d, in this order.
You obviously discard the 5d and draw. Here is what the
machine looks like after the discard but before the draw.
As Ks Qs Js **
···
--------------
As Ks Qs Js **
--------------
As Ks Qs Js **
The nine lines you hope to fill in with the Ts are the 3 horizontal
lines, a V, an upside down V, and 4 other lines just like one sees
on the 9-line slot machines.
When you draw, the 3 blank spaces fill in with cards. In this situation,
you can get exactly 0 RFs or 3 RFs. That makes this game look flawed.
However, it is not. There are 47 choose 3 = 16215 different ways to fill
these 3 spots (order is not important). So, lets see what happesn if
we mentally play 16215 hands and get each unique draw exactly once.
Of those, exactly 46 choose 2 = 345 will yield 3 RFs. This means that
if you play this hand 16215 times, you will have a total of 145935 RF
draws (nine each play). Your expected number of RFs will be 345 * 9 = 3015.
If we compare 145935 to 3015, we see that 3015 * 47 = 145935. In other
words, we expect to get a RF 1 in 47 draws, just like normal.
So, even though you cannot get 9 RFs, you will still get the 'right'
number in the long run. This kind of analysis holds for all drawing
situations, though it gets quite messy if you draw 2 or more cards.
Here is a more intuitive approach. If you draw 3 cards, you have a
3/47 chance of getting the Ts. So, if you draw to a 4 card RF 47 times
on Spin Poker you should get the Ts 3 times. Since the Ts will complete
3 RFs every time you get it, you wind up with 9 RFs after 47 plays.
However, you had a total of 9 * 47 RF draws. So, you make a RF 1 in 47
draws, just like for standard one line games.
QZ
Thank you all for your various explanations.
···
On Mon, 11 Nov 2002 00:17:48 -0800, you wrote:
<<<
Since it is dealt from one deck and therefore, unless dealt, it is
impossible to have multiple royals, doesn't that make it less than the
ev of a one line or ten play, etc.
You pay for 9 games but do not really get 9 games (re: royals)
Please explainIf you watch Spin poker, you will see that it starts
as a normal VP game. You get dealt 5 cards and make one of
the 32 possible holds. Once that is done, you see the
game do something odd looking. Each card you hold will
be copied into the rows above and below the center line.
Then, for each card you discard, you get a new card in each
line. Finally, the game draws 9 lines through the resulting
matrix of cards. These lines are your nine hands.Suppose you are dealt AsKsQsJs5d, in this order.
You obviously discard the 5d and draw. Here is what the
machine looks like after the discard but before the draw.As Ks Qs Js **
--------------
As Ks Qs Js **
--------------
As Ks Qs Js **The nine lines you hope to fill in with the Ts are the 3 horizontal
lines, a V, an upside down V, and 4 other lines just like one sees
on the 9-line slot machines.When you draw, the 3 blank spaces fill in with cards. In this situation,
you can get exactly 0 RFs or 3 RFs. That makes this game look flawed.
However, it is not. There are 47 choose 3 = 16215 different ways to fill
these 3 spots (order is not important). So, lets see what happesn if
we mentally play 16215 hands and get each unique draw exactly once.Of those, exactly 46 choose 2 = 345 will yield 3 RFs. This means that
if you play this hand 16215 times, you will have a total of 145935 RF
draws (nine each play). Your expected number of RFs will be 345 * 9 = 3015.
If we compare 145935 to 3015, we see that 3015 * 47 = 145935. In other
words, we expect to get a RF 1 in 47 draws, just like normal.So, even though you cannot get 9 RFs, you will still get the 'right'
number in the long run. This kind of analysis holds for all drawing
situations, though it gets quite messy if you draw 2 or more cards.Here is a more intuitive approach. If you draw 3 cards, you have a
3/47 chance of getting the Ts. So, if you draw to a 4 card RF 47 times
on Spin Poker you should get the Ts 3 times. Since the Ts will complete
3 RFs every time you get it, you wind up with 9 RFs after 47 plays.
However, you had a total of 9 * 47 RF draws. So, you make a RF 1 in 47
draws, just like for standard one line games.QZ
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It is not only possible but likely you will hit multiple royals playing spin poker. If you flop it then its nine royals. A one-card draw can produce 2, 3 or 5 royals. a two-card draw can produce 1,2, or 3 royals. a three-card draw can produce 1,2 or 3 royals. A four or five card draw can produce only one royal.
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Spin Poker vs regular three lines.
In spin poker using only one deck of cards and playing 3 lines. Dealt 3 cards of the same value.
There are six spaces to catch the 4th card. However, catching one eliminates the 4 spaces on the other 2 lines from catching the fourth card. The max 4 of a kind is 1 for this deal.
In regular 3 lines, each line has it's own deck of cards, (minus the 5 dealt cards).
There are 2 spaces on each line to catch the fourth card, however, catching one does not eliminate the four spaces on the other 2 lines from catching a fourth card. There is the possibility that all three lines could have 4 of a kind. The max 4 of a kinds could be 3 for this deal.
Playing 9 lines in spin poker, catching the fourth card will give 3, 4, or five 4 of a kinds, while 10 lines of regular might only catch 1 or 2 lines of 4 of a kind.
Wizard of Odds states odds and strategy are exactly the same as conventional video poker. However the chart shows a much higher standard deviation for 9 lines vs 3 lines.
It would appear that the odds are not the same when playing three lines, because the 4th card cannot be on all 3 lines.
Does playing 9 lines per deal in spin poker, vs 10 lines regular poker, reduce this advantage regular 3 lines has over 3 lines of spin poker?
If one plays spin poker, is it prudent to only play 9 lines?
Bill
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