vpFREE2 Forums

South Point Double Royals?

I apologize for not getting all the specifics on this story. A known
player hit a dealt $2 single line NSUD early in September (not on Labor Day).

The double part according to management was of the bonus monies. So it was
$800 instead of the $400.

In most cases, are we reading and re-reading these promo calendars or
quickly reading what we want them to mean. Many of us that play multi-line were
trying to think if for this promo it would be better to play higher
denominations but only a single line.

I hope I am wrong. Has anyone been paid double the Royal if dealt. I also
lost my Monday slot play at Silverton as I only glanced at the calendar and
it seemed to be ok. I was looking more for the possible $100 on Thursday
Sept l st and like a trained seal just accepted the calendar as etched in
stone.

These are human errors but show us that we must tend to basics on
everything; check the paytables, dates, amounts, tickets on cashing out and counting
your monies from the automatic pay machines.

Nothing got by me 15 to 20 years ago. . . . .tighten your scrutiny.

Anteroz</HTML>

I heard a rumor (not confirmed) that a player was refused a 200 coin royal bonus on a $2 game because it is not listed on the signs. They list $1 games and $5 games so my assumption would have been you would get the $200 ($1 bonus) at a minimum.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, anterozlv@... wrote:

I apologize for not getting all the specifics on this story. A known
player hit a dealt $2 single line NSUD early in September (not on Labor Day).

The double part according to management was of the bonus monies. So it was
$800 instead of the $400.

I heard a rumor (not confirmed) that a player was refused a 200 coin royal bonus on a $2 game because it is not listed on the signs. They list $1 games and $5 games so my assumption would have been you would get the $200 ($1 bonus) at a minimum.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vegasvpplayer" <vegasvpplayer@...> wrote:

It's probably not a rumor? $2 denominations were not included last year during this same promo. My thinking was; they don't mind paying the $200 free play for someone playing $1 NSUD but not the $2 denomination. Of course, $5 denominations at South Point are short pay.

It's pretty clear from the rules ( see below link ) that the $2 machines will pay $400 in free play, and dealt royals will pay double. Its also very clear that Multi-game's RF only count on line 1 ( PS - I hit a royal on line 2 and I was denied the bonus).
My big question is , given the above info, why are the pro's slaming the 5C 100 play NSUD as their game of choice ?
regards...Tom

http://www.southpointcasino.com/press/10-september-royals.php

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----- Original Message ----- From: "staninnv" <arnot@cox.net>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 2:55 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: South Point Double Royals?

My friend and I wondered exactly the same thing. This is opinion and only conjuncture, but we thought it was because they were ignoring the promotion, and just playing what they always played.

We saw dedicated players pounding away, but no one we considered to be a "true pro". My definition is likely different from yours and this brings up an interesting point. When you say, "pro" I do not know exactly what you mean.

To me a "true pro" is someone that gambles proficiently, only for profit, not for fun, as their primary or solitary source of income.

I'm not saying this is the correct definition, but it is mine. If a person could survive without their gambling income, or if they gamble as any type of entertainment, I do not consider them pros.

I'd be fascinated to hear other's definition of this common term.

~A teacher is to a student, like the water to the soil. He cannot grow a pomegranate from a mustard seed.

~Frank Kneeland, former manager of the largest Vegas slot team and Author of The Secret World of Video Poker Progressives--A History and How-To of Video Poker Slot Teams in Las Vegas. www.progressivevp.com

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tomflush" <tomflush@...> wrote:

It's pretty clear from the rules ( see below link ) that the $2 machines
will pay $400 in free play, and dealt royals will pay double. Its also very
clear that Multi-game's RF only count on line 1 ( PS - I hit a royal on line
2 and I was denied the bonus).
My big question is , given the above info, why are the pro's slaming the 5C
100 play NSUD as their game of choice ?
regards...Tom

http://www.southpointcasino.com/press/10-september-royals.php

----- Original Message -----
From: "staninnv" <arnot@...>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 2:55 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: South Point Double Royals?

>
>

It's pretty clear from the rules ( see below link ) that the $2 machines
will pay $400 in free play, and dealt royals will pay double.
http://www.southpointcasino.com/press/10-september-royals.php

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tomflush" <tomflush@...> wrote:

No where on the promo poster does it mention $2 denomination machines. $2 denomination is excluded. If you are lucky enough to be dealt a royal you will receive double the free play offered for that denomination.

Frank wrote:

<<To me a "true pro" is someone that gambles proficiently, only for profit,
not for fun, as their primary or solitary source of income.

I'm not saying this is the correct definition, but it is mine. If a person
could survive without their gambling income, or if they gamble as any type
of entertainment, I do not consider them pros.

I'd be fascinated to hear other's definition of this common term.>>

I would delete everything after "only for profit." Otherwise Warren Buffett
isn't a pro investor.

Cogno

While the $2 denomination is not listed on the poster, there is a side bar on the poster entitled "Rewarding Royals Rules" which states "Royals hit on denominations not listed will be pro-rated."

Don the Dentist

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "staninnv" <arnot@...> wrote:

> http://www.southpointcasino.com/press/10-september-royals.php

No where on the promo poster does it mention $2 denomination machines. $2 denomination is excluded. If you are lucky enough to be dealt a royal you will receive double the free play offered for that denomination.

While the $2 denomination is not listed on the poster, there is a side bar on the poster entitled "Rewarding Royals Rules" which states "Royals hit on denominations not listed will be pro-rated."

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Don the Dentist" <dds6@...> wrote:

I stand corrected. I suppose I was mislead by comments made last year by a friend that plays the $2 NSUD. He memtioned that $2 were not included. He must not have hit a royal or not read the fine print either?

A lot has changed while you were away. These days, because of all the heat, a "true pro" looks like just another ploppy, otherwise they soon get 86'd for looking like a "true pro" whether they are one or not.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:

We saw dedicated players pounding away, but no one we considered to be a "true pro".

Personally, I would rather use the term "skilled gambler." That can be someone who is part-time or full time. They can have other sources of income or not. And sometimes - like at our house - they can't decide whether they do it for fun or profit - it seems to be a 50/50 proposition!!!!! But we only have fun if we are "doing it right" so we will have a long-term profit.

Now, of course, dealing with the IRS, the term "professional gambler" is a very gray area with special considerations.

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________________
Jean $�ott, Frugal Gambler
http://queenofcomps.com/
You can read my blog at
http://jscott.lvablog.com/

That would seem to confuse the issue even more since you can be a 'skilled gambler' but not approach it as a business (full-time or part-time). You can also apporoach it like a business, but not be what I would consider 'skilled'.

Take Care,
Mark

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jean Scott" <queenofcomps@...> wrote:

Personally, I would rather use the term "skilled gambler." That can be
someone who is part-time or full time. They can have other sources of
income or not.
________________

Interesting topic Jean, but I'm looking to you for the answer :slight_smile:

A professional in any sport or occupation does it for the money and makes a living by doing so.

Through the years I've had many hobbies; Bowling, Golf, Live Poker, Video Poker etc. that are both amateur and professional endeavors. In every case I've been an amateur.

To be called a professional involves earning a living. I think that's the litmus test.

Mac
www.CasinoCamper.com

So you think Alex Rodriguez needs to work for a living?

Cogno

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-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
casino_camper
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 6:29 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: What is a Pro?

Interesting topic Jean, but I'm looking to you for the answer :slight_smile:

A professional in any sport or occupation does it for the money and makes a
living by doing so.

Through the years I've had many hobbies; Bowling, Golf, Live Poker, Video
Poker etc. that are both amateur and professional endeavors. In every case
I've been an amateur.

To be called a professional involves earning a living. I think that's the
litmus test.

Mac
www.CasinoCamper.com

------------------------------------

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<<To be called a professional involves earning a living. I think that's the litmus test.>>

What about a professional in some career and he slows down and doesn't spend as much time on it or has made so much money in the bank that he doesn't really doesn't need the money but continues working, even giving the money away.

···

________________
Jean $�ott, Frugal Gambler
http://queenofcomps.com/
You can read my blog at
http://jscott.lvablog.com/

<<That would seem to confuse the issue even more since you can be a 'skilled gambler' but not approach it as a business (full-time or part-time). >>

Perhaps.

<<You can also apporoach it like a business, but not be what I would consider 'skilled'.>>

I suppose you could have a losing business in this case.

···

________________
Jean $�ott, Frugal Gambler
http://queenofcomps.com/
You can read my blog at
http://jscott.lvablog.com/

Dictionary: professional
n.
  1.. A person following a profession, especially a learned profession.
  2.. One who earns a living in a given or implied occupation: hired a professional to decorate the house.
  3.. A skilled practitioner; an expert.
Perhaps #3 is my idea of a professional gambler, not depending on how many hours he spend on it or whether he earns his living doing it.

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-----
Thesaurus:
professional

adjective

  Having or demonstrating a high degree of knowledge or skill: adept, crack, expert, master, masterful, masterly, proficient, skilled, skillful.
noun

  A person with a high degree of knowledge or skill in a particular field: ace, adept, authority, dab hand, expert, master, past master, proficient, wizard. crackerjack.
  "Skill" seems to be the operative word!
  ---------------------
  Jean $�ott, Frugal Gambler
  http://queenofcomps.com/
  You can read my blog at
  http://jscott.lvablog.com/

Good point Jean. A pro golfer who has slowed down and only does a few charity events each year is still a pro golfer.

Also I was talking with a friend about this last night and he reminded me there are many professionals who aren't at the top of the sport and it may not be their main source of income. Some examples can be found among golfers who haven't made it to the PGA Tour, minor league baseball players, arena football players, etc.

How about Semi-Professional?
If someone has never "made it" as a pro but is a profitable gambler and approaches it in a serious way I'd probably call them a "Semi-Pro".

Mac
www.CasinoCamper.com

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jean Scott" <queenofcomps@...> wrote:

What about a professional in some career and he slows down and doesn't spend
as much time on it or has made so much money in the bank that he doesn't
really doesn't need the money but continues working, even giving the money
away.

"Jean Scott" <queenofcomps@...> wrote:

  "Skill" seems to be the operative word!

This struck a chord so I thought I finally enter the fry on this thread.

As I'm sure the followers of vpFREE are beginning to realize, we were so isolated in the teams, we almost had our own language made up of English words but with our own definitions. What Jean said about skill level reminded me of a distinction WE made that I've not seen brought up in these forums. It is not possible for me to be wrong on this, because it is also not possible for me to be right. When one is talking about pure opinion, of which this is, all one can do is share their viewpoint. So just to be clear, I'm not saying this IS the definition of PRO. I'm saying this WAS our definition. We also had some made-up sub-classes I thought I'd include for flavor.

PRO (True PRO)
To qualify for this fairly elite group several things needed to be true. The majority of your income or savings had to come from gambling. You had to play very accurately and be proficient in whatever games you played. Skill was a factor, but not only at playing. You had to be able to figure things out like, game return and strategy, on your own independently. The use of VP software was not prohibited as a time saving tool, but in a pinch you had to be able to do it the old fashion way, by hand. So math skill was the real stick by which you were measured. If you gambled for fun or recreation at all, you were not a "True PRO"...you were instead a...

Quasi-PRO
Quasi-PROS were in all ways nearly as "with it" as True PROS with the one difference that if you barred them from every casino in the world they would merely spend more time with their families and their real job. To them gambling was a past time or supplemental income. Quasi-PROS were in no way inferior to real PROS unless you count having a life as a deficit. More often than not the term Quasi was replaced with Queasy, which was perhaps how anyone that did what we did, in the absence of needing to, made us feel.

Poser PRO
Posers were to True-PROS what everyone else other than the guy in front is, in a game of follow the leader. Posers might well play a VP strategy very well, but they did not make it. You might find one on the best play in town, but they did not find it. They might be dressed very stylishly, but with a little more digging, it turns out their Mother dresses them. Some posers were very successful gamblers, but without the True-PROS to guide them, they would have been little girls, lost in the woods, on the way to Grandma's house.

Wannabe-PRO
If wishes were horses... Some folks are cut out for professional gambling and others are not. This sub-category of player may follow others lead or strike out on their own, that is irreverent. Somewhere along the line they strayed from the path to look at something shiny, and ended up taking the wrong turn in Albuquerque. They play poorly, either by accident or design. They get an E for effort, but that is all. The only PRO roster they rank on, is the one within their own minds. One does not wish to be in this category and I'm happy to report there is a very simple and easy way to get out of it...stop gambling.

Hope this amuses.

Note: The primary reason for the existence of all these internal team colloquialisms is all the time we had sitting next to each other on incredibly long play sessions. The mind comes up with some strange stuff when tired and bored.

~~One should avoid heeding to opinion, of course that's just my opinion.

~Frank Kneeland, former manager of the largest Vegas slot team and Author of The Secret World of Video Poker Progressives--A History and How-To of Video Poker Slot Teams in Las Vegas. www.progressivevp.com

In the gambling world, it would most likely be a losing business if you are not skilled. Trying to make the model fit other real world scenarios, though, I have definitely run across a few people in other lines of work who are not skilled, but make a living as freelancers (filing Schedule C).

I do understand the intent of the dictionary posting (and I do agree with considering a skilled expert to be a professional in non-IRS related conversation), but again, just because you are a skilled expert, does not mean that you are approaching it as a business.
Even in the professional golfer scenario someone else proposed, the person may not be spending as much time on their profession, but they are still making money and treating it as their profession and can thereby still be considered a professional as far as the IRS is concerned.

Take Care,
Mark

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jean Scott" <queenofcomps@...> wrote:

<<You can also approach it like a business, but not be what I would
consider 'skilled'.>>

I suppose you could have a losing business in this case.
________________
Jean $¢ott, Frugal Gambler