vpFREE2 Forums

Some thoughts on "No points on FPVP"

We all know that, as APs, we see A LOT of folks that play 1-4 credits on a variety of VP games. We all shake our heads about them, but they definitely are a large majority of VP players, IMHO. These are also the players that never look at the paytables. I can't tell you the # of times I've seen players play 7/5 $1 BP instead of the .25/.50 8/5 BP at the $1 level instead. And this doesn't include the # of folks that play other short pay VP.

BUT......these folks WILL notice that they're not making any points to: 1. Eat, 2. Fill up the gas tank, 3. Buy "stuff".

The point was made, and I believe validly, that AP VP players are a small minority, maybe not even a blip on the MS radar screen, so MS decides to increase profitability at the risk of losing APs because it won't affect the bottom line significantly.

BUT......the NON APs probably make up the VAST majority of the VP players. When these folks realize what's going on, they will stop playing VP...maybe going to slots, maybe just stop going to MS, period.

Then I believe MS management will realize that profitability will go down rapidly, and they will rethink their strategy...after all, it's just a matter of programming and/or re-chipping the machines.

This strategy, IMVHO, will be re-thought pretty quickly.

OK, I admit I'm somewhat of an optimist and I do believe in Santa ;-).

They put a 0 point sticker on every VP machine in the Sky High Limit room. Even the short pay machines. I'm sure they are getting a ton of complaints. I believe they will rethink this policy very quickly since it was so poorly thought out to begin with. Mohegan has seen a monthly drop in their handle the last few months (while FW has not) which I believe is at least partly due to their drastic cut in fsp and comps. August's drop needs to be significant to get their attention.
Joel

···

________________________________
From: TED <Freedom_Fighter56@hotmail.com>
To: vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, August 5, 2011 8:51 AM
Subject: [vpFREE_NewEngland] Some thoughts on "No points on FPVP"

We all know that, as APs, we see A LOT of folks that play 1-4 credits on a variety of VP games. We all shake our heads about them, but they definitely are a large majority of VP players, IMHO. These are also the players that never look at the paytables. I can't tell you the # of times I've seen players play 7/5 $1 BP instead of the .25/.50 8/5 BP at the $1 level instead. And this doesn't include the # of folks that play other short pay VP.

BUT......these folks WILL notice that they're not making any points to: 1. Eat, 2. Fill up the gas tank, 3. Buy "stuff".

The point was made, and I believe validly, that AP VP players are a small minority, maybe not even a blip on the MS radar screen, so MS decides to increase profitability at the risk of losing APs because it won't affect the bottom line significantly.

BUT......the NON APs probably make up the VAST majority of the VP players. When these folks realize what's going on, they will stop playing VP...maybe going to slots, maybe just stop going to MS, period.

Then I believe MS management will realize that profitability will go down rapidly, and they will rethink their strategy...after all, it's just a matter of programming and/or re-chipping the machines.

This strategy, IMVHO, will be re-thought pretty quickly.

OK, I admit I'm somewhat of an optimist and I do believe in Santa ;-).

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm amazed (slightly) that MS has taken this approach. I always thought they had better and smarter management than FW . Hasn't anyone at MS made the correlation that since they cut their Freeplay and comps from late last year that their play has declined? Seems like a simple realization to me.

J.

···

----- Original Message -----

From: "Joel Fink" <joel0457@yahoo.com>
To: " vpFREE NewEngland " < vpFREE _ NewEngland @ yahoogroups .com>
Sent: Friday, August 5, 2011 9:16:40 AM
Subject: Re: [ vpFREE _ NewEngland ] Some thoughts on "No points on FPVP "

They put a 0 point sticker on every VP machine in the Sky High Limit room. Even the short pay machines. I'm sure they are getting a ton of complaints. I believe they will rethink this policy very quickly since it was so poorly thought out to begin with. Mohegan has seen a monthly drop in their handle the last few months (while FW has not) which I believe is at least partly due to their drastic cut in fsp and comps. August's drop needs to be significant to get their attention.
Joel

________________________________
From: TED < Freedom_Fighter56@ hotmail .com >
To: vpFREE _ NewEngland @ yahoogroups .com
Sent: Friday, August 5, 2011 8:51 AM
Subject: [ vpFREE _ NewEngland ] Some thoughts on "No points on FPVP "

We all know that, as APs , we see A LOT of folks that play 1-4 credits on a variety of VP games. We all shake our heads about them, but they definitely are a large majority of VP players, IMHO. These are also the players that never look at the paytables . I can't tell you the # of times I've seen players play 7/5 $1 BP instead of the .25/.50 8/5 BP at the $1 level instead. And this doesn't include the # of folks that play other short pay VP.

BUT......these folks WILL notice that they're not making any points to: 1. Eat, 2. Fill up the gas tank, 3. Buy "stuff".

The point was made, and I believe validly, that AP VP players are a small minority, maybe not even a blip on the MS radar screen, so MS decides to increase profitability at the risk of losing APs because it won't affect the bottom line significantly.

BUT......the NON APs probably make up the VAST majority of the VP players. When these folks realize what's going on, they will stop playing VP...maybe going to slots, maybe just stop going to MS, period.

Then I believe MS management will realize that profitability will go down rapidly, and they will rethink their strategy...after all, it's just a matter of programming and/or re-chipping the machines.

This strategy, IMVHO , will be re-thought pretty quickly.

OK, I admit I'm somewhat of an optimist and I do believe in Santa ;-).

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It always amazes me that businesses (and governments, but let's not get
political) fail to recognize that incentives encourage a particular behavior,
and disincentives discourage the behavior. So, given that the inventory of all
VP machines were less than 100% payback (not even taking into account the facts
that people 1.)play less than full-coin and 2.)play less than perfect strategy),
INCREASING fsp and comps would INCREASE their handle, while DECREASING these
factors would DECREASE it.

This is not esoteric macroeconomic theory, utilizing advanced calculus; this is
basic ECO 101 and PSYCH 101. If you incent a $1/$5/$10/$25 player, he or she
will drag along the significant other who might well play the nickels,quarters
or BD slots or go shopping in the overpriced stores, all behaviors that will
more than compensate for the $100 or $200 fsp which will be recycled through the
under-100% VP machines anyway.

If Mohegan wanted to cut some costs, try, for example, eliminating the free
firework shows that bring in hordes of locals, dragging in their folding chairs
and picnic baskets and every person in their extended families, with absolutely
$0 revenues. Or spending half a zillion dollars on a new buffet that is all
glitz but reaches a new low in quality while raising the price by 50%. Or
turning the place into a drinking hangout for the 20-somethings who are trying
to get "lucky" in a way that doesn't involve casino gambling at all.

Supposedly, there was a focus group that thought that these latest actions were
a good idea. I would suggest that maybe one of the suits should read these posts
and take the temperature of their customers in the real world. I definitely hope
that the August handle falls through the floor as they deserve no less.

···

=========================
I'm amazed (slightly) that MS has taken this approach. I always thought they had
better and smarter management than FW . Hasn't anyone at MS made the correlation
that since they cut their Freeplay and comps from late last year that their play
has declined? Seems like a simple realization to me.

=============================
They put a 0 point sticker on every VP machine in the Sky High Limit room. Even
the short pay machines. I'm sure they are getting a ton of complaints. I believe
they will rethink this policy very quickly since it was so poorly thought out to
begin with. Mohegan has seen a monthly drop in their handle the last few months
(while FW has not) which I believe is at least partly due to their drastic cut
in fsp and comps. August's drop needs to be significant to get their attention.

Joel

________________________________
From: TED < Freedom_Fighter56@ hotmail .com >
To: vpFREE _ NewEngland @ yahoogroups .com
Sent: Friday, August 5, 2011 8:51 AM
Subject: [ vpFREE _ NewEngland ] Some thoughts on "No points on FPVP "

We all know that, as APs , we see A LOT of folks that play 1-4 credits on a
variety of VP games. We all shake our heads about them, but they definitely are
a large majority of VP players, IMHO. These are also the players that never look
at the paytables . I can't tell you the # of times I've seen players play 7/5 $1
BP instead of the .25/.50 8/5 BP at the $1 level instead. And this doesn't
include the # of folks that play other short pay VP.

BUT......these folks WILL notice that they're not making any points to: 1. Eat,
2. Fill up the gas tank, 3. Buy "stuff".

The point was made, and I believe validly, that AP VP players are a small
minority, maybe not even a blip on the MS radar screen, so MS decides to
increase profitability at the risk of losing APs because it won't affect the
bottom line significantly.

BUT......the NON APs probably make up the VAST majority of the VP players. When
these folks realize what's going on, they will stop playing VP...maybe going to
slots, maybe just stop going to MS, period.

Then I believe MS management will realize that profitability will go down
rapidly, and they will rethink their strategy...after all, it's just a matter of
programming and/or re-chipping the machines.

This strategy, IMVHO , will be re-thought pretty quickly.

OK, I admit I'm somewhat of an optimist and I do believe in Santa ;-).

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

That is optimistic and lets hope you're right.
More likely they will do what other casinos have done-take out the good machines completely.

···

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "TED" <Freedom_Fighter56@...> wrote:

We all know that, as APs, we see A LOT of folks that play 1-4 credits on a variety of VP games. We all shake our heads about them, but they definitely are a large majority of VP players, IMHO. These are also the players that never look at the paytables. I can't tell you the # of times I've seen players play 7/5 $1 BP instead of the .25/.50 8/5 BP at the $1 level instead. And this doesn't include the # of folks that play other short pay VP.

BUT......these folks WILL notice that they're not making any points to: 1. Eat, 2. Fill up the gas tank, 3. Buy "stuff".

The point was made, and I believe validly, that AP VP players are a small minority, maybe not even a blip on the MS radar screen, so MS decides to increase profitability at the risk of losing APs because it won't affect the bottom line significantly.

BUT......the NON APs probably make up the VAST majority of the VP players. When these folks realize what's going on, they will stop playing VP...maybe going to slots, maybe just stop going to MS, period.

Then I believe MS management will realize that profitability will go down rapidly, and they will rethink their strategy...after all, it's just a matter of programming and/or re-chipping the machines.

This strategy, IMVHO, will be re-thought pretty quickly.

OK, I admit I'm somewhat of an optimist and I do believe in Santa ;-).

I think the bottom line is that they figured out that the returns on the PE games plus all the giveaways were costing them money. So they made this change. Implementing this change to machines like BP is just pure laziness and overreaction. Bottom line is they don't trust their own promotions department. Maybe with good reason.

···

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, GURU PERF <guruperf@...> wrote:

It always amazes me that businesses (and governments, but let's not get
political) fail to recognize that incentives encourage a particular behavior,
and disincentives discourage the behavior. So, given that the inventory of all
VP machines were less than 100% payback (not even taking into account the facts
that people 1.)play less than full-coin and 2.)play less than perfect strategy),
INCREASING fsp and comps would INCREASE their handle, while DECREASING these
factors would DECREASE it.

This is not esoteric macroeconomic theory, utilizing advanced calculus; this is
basic ECO 101 and PSYCH 101. If you incent a $1/$5/$10/$25 player, he or she
will drag along the significant other who might well play the nickels,quarters
or BD slots or go shopping in the overpriced stores, all behaviors that will
more than compensate for the $100 or $200 fsp which will be recycled through the
under-100% VP machines anyway.

If Mohegan wanted to cut some costs, try, for example, eliminating the free
firework shows that bring in hordes of locals, dragging in their folding chairs
and picnic baskets and every person in their extended families, with absolutely
$0 revenues. Or spending half a zillion dollars on a new buffet that is all
glitz but reaches a new low in quality while raising the price by 50%. Or
turning the place into a drinking hangout for the 20-somethings who are trying
to get "lucky" in a way that doesn't involve casino gambling at all.

Supposedly, there was a focus group that thought that these latest actions were
a good idea. I would suggest that maybe one of the suits should read these posts
and take the temperature of their customers in the real world. I definitely hope
that the August handle falls through the floor as they deserve no less.

=========================
I'm amazed (slightly) that MS has taken this approach. I always thought they had
better and smarter management than FW . Hasn't anyone at MS made the correlation
that since they cut their Freeplay and comps from late last year that their play
has declined? Seems like a simple realization to me.

=============================
They put a 0 point sticker on every VP machine in the Sky High Limit room. Even
the short pay machines. I'm sure they are getting a ton of complaints. I believe
they will rethink this policy very quickly since it was so poorly thought out to
begin with. Mohegan has seen a monthly drop in their handle the last few months
(while FW has not) which I believe is at least partly due to their drastic cut
in fsp and comps. August's drop needs to be significant to get their attention.

Joel

________________________________
From: TED < Freedom_Fighter56@ hotmail .com >
To: vpFREE _ NewEngland @ yahoogroups .com
Sent: Friday, August 5, 2011 8:51 AM
Subject: [ vpFREE _ NewEngland ] Some thoughts on "No points on FPVP "

We all know that, as APs , we see A LOT of folks that play 1-4 credits on a
variety of VP games. We all shake our heads about them, but they definitely are
a large majority of VP players, IMHO. These are also the players that never look
at the paytables . I can't tell you the # of times I've seen players play 7/5 $1
BP instead of the .25/.50 8/5 BP at the $1 level instead. And this doesn't
include the # of folks that play other short pay VP.

BUT......these folks WILL notice that they're not making any points to: 1. Eat,
2. Fill up the gas tank, 3. Buy "stuff".

The point was made, and I believe validly, that AP VP players are a small
minority, maybe not even a blip on the MS radar screen, so MS decides to
increase profitability at the risk of losing APs because it won't affect the
bottom line significantly.

BUT......the NON APs probably make up the VAST majority of the VP players. When
these folks realize what's going on, they will stop playing VP...maybe going to
slots, maybe just stop going to MS, period.

Then I believe MS management will realize that profitability will go down
rapidly, and they will rethink their strategy...after all, it's just a matter of
programming and/or re-chipping the machines.

This strategy, IMVHO , will be re-thought pretty quickly.

OK, I admit I'm somewhat of an optimist and I do believe in Santa ;-).

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]