vpFREE2 Forums

Some Interesting Statistics about the Royal Flush

Recently I was asking myself questions like, "what are the odds of
hitting a Royal Flush in any given hour of play? How many hands do I
have to play, on average, to get one?"

This is going to depend, of course, on the specific game that you're
playing. Each game has its own "Royal Flush Cycle." For the
familiar 9/6 Jacks or Better, the RF Cycle is 40,390. For most other
games, it's somewhat more. But what exactly does this mean? If I
play 40,389 hands without a RF, do I say "Hot dog, I'm gonna hit
it next hand!"? Of course not – no matter what has happened in
previous hands, the odds for the next hand are the same as any other. Is
that the average number of hands I need to play to get the RF?
Apparently, it's not.

The R.F. Cycle means simply this: that is the odds against hitting the
RF on any given hand. For each hand I play of 9/6 JoB (assuming proper
playing strategy, of course), the odds are 1 in 40,390 of getting the
RF. As a decimal, that number is .000024759; let's call that p. More
interesting perhaps, and surely more useful, is 1-p, the odds that I
will not get a RF. That probability is .99997524. For each subsequent
hand, we multiply that number times itself to get the odds of no RF. The
odds of not getting the RF in n hands is (1-p) raised to the power n.

When I play 1000 hands of JoB (roughly 2 hours' play), the odds are
only 2.445% that I will get at least one RF. Now let's play some
more hands, and see how that number increases:

5,000 hands = 11.644% of getting the RF

10,000 hands = 21.93%

15,000 hands = 31.02%

20,000 hands = 39.05%

25,000 hands = 46.15%

30,000 hands = 52.42%

35,000 hands = 57.96%

40,000 hands = 62.86%

45,000 hands = 67.18%

50,000 hands = 71.00%

60,000 hands = 77.36%

70,000 hands = 82.32%

80,000 hands = 86.20%

90,000 hands = 89.22%

100,000 hands = 91.59%

125,000 hands = 95.47%

150,000 hands = 97.56%

200,000 hands = 99.29%

So we see that it is entirely possible to play 100,000 hands or more
without getting the RF, although it is unlikely.

A very interesting number is 28,000 hands, because the probability is
almost exactly one-half that you will see the RF: 50.005%. Play another
28,000 hands (56,000 total), and the odds of not seeing the RF drop from
1 in 2 to 1 in 4. Play 28,000 more (84,000), and the odds of not seeing
it drop to 1 in 8. And it continues to fall in half each time you play
another 28,000 hands – but it never goes to zero!!

So hopefully this little exercise will help players to "set their
expectations" about their chances of getting the RF in any given
number of hands, or hours of play.

            Robert

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You mention that the RF Cycle is 40,390 but that's "apparently" not the
average number of hands to win a RF. But I do not see you go on to make this
argument.

···

On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 10:42 PM, tenore_s <tenore_s@yahoo.com> wrote:

Recently I was asking myself questions like, "what are the odds of
hitting a Royal Flush in any given hour of play? How many hands do I
have to play, on average, to get one?"

This is going to depend, of course, on the specific game that you're
playing. Each game has its own "Royal Flush Cycle." For the
familiar 9/6 Jacks or Better, the RF Cycle is 40,390. For most other
games, it's somewhat more. But what exactly does this mean? If I
play 40,389 hands without a RF, do I say "Hot dog, I'm gonna hit
it next hand!"? Of course not – no matter what has happened in
previous hands, the odds for the next hand are the same as any other. Is
that the average number of hands I need to play to get the RF?
Apparently, it's not.

The R.F. Cycle means simply this: that is the odds against hitting the
RF on any given hand. For each hand I play of 9/6 JoB (assuming proper
playing strategy, of course), the odds are 1 in 40,390 of getting the
RF. As a decimal, that number is .000024759; let's call that p. More
interesting perhaps, and surely more useful, is 1-p, the odds that I
will not get a RF. That probability is .99997524. For each subsequent
hand, we multiply that number times itself to get the odds of no RF. The
odds of not getting the RF in n hands is (1-p) raised to the power n.

When I play 1000 hands of JoB (roughly 2 hours' play), the odds are
only 2.445% that I will get at least one RF. Now let's play some
more hands, and see how that number increases:

5,000 hands = 11.644% of getting the RF

10,000 hands = 21.93%

15,000 hands = 31.02%

20,000 hands = 39.05%

25,000 hands = 46.15%

30,000 hands = 52.42%

35,000 hands = 57.96%

40,000 hands = 62.86%

45,000 hands = 67.18%

50,000 hands = 71.00%

60,000 hands = 77.36%

70,000 hands = 82.32%

80,000 hands = 86.20%

90,000 hands = 89.22%

100,000 hands = 91.59%

125,000 hands = 95.47%

150,000 hands = 97.56%

200,000 hands = 99.29%

So we see that it is entirely possible to play 100,000 hands or more
without getting the RF, although it is unlikely.

A very interesting number is 28,000 hands, because the probability is
almost exactly one-half that you will see the RF: 50.005%. Play another
28,000 hands (56,000 total), and the odds of not seeing the RF drop from
1 in 2 to 1 in 4. Play 28,000 more (84,000), and the odds of not seeing
it drop to 1 in 8. And it continues to fall in half each time you play
another 28,000 hands – but it never goes to zero!!

So hopefully this little exercise will help players to "set their
expectations" about their chances of getting the RF in any given
number of hands, or hours of play.

Robert

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From high school physics I learned that the wavelength ("cycle") is
the inverse of the frequency. Perhaps the term "Royal Flush Cycle"
is derived from physics!

G'luck all,
gamb00ler

tenore_s wrote:

Recently I was asking myself questions like, "what are the odds of
hitting a Royal Flush in any given hour of play? How many hands do I
have to play, on average, to get one?"

This is going to depend, of course, on the specific game that you're
playing. Each game has its own "Royal Flush Cycle." For the
familiar 9/6 Jacks or Better, the RF Cycle is 40,390. For most other
games, it's somewhat more. But what exactly does this mean? If I
play 40,389 hands without a RF, do I say "Hot dog, I'm gonna hit
it next hand!"? Of course not – no matter what has happened in
previous hands, the odds for the next hand are the same as any
other. Is that the average number of hands I need to play to
get the RF?
Apparently, it's not.

The R.F. Cycle means simply this: that is the odds against
hitting the RF on any given hand. For each hand I play of
9/6 JoB (assuming proper playing strategy, of course), the
odds are 1 in 40,390 of getting the RF.

... SNIP ...

Be nice. It seems that the computation that was done was the probability of getting 1 or
more Royal flushes, not the probability of getting exactly one. Hence, post did not address
the question of the average number of hands to win a RF.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Pawloski" <jpawloski@...> wrote:

You mention that the RF Cycle is 40,390 but that's "apparently" not the
average number of hands to win a RF. But I do not see you go on to make this
argument.

Yes. It occurs to me that the statistics I posted give a somewhat
incomplete picture, as it does not address the likelihood of getting
*more than one* RF. You look at the possibilities of going tens or
hundreds of thousands of hands getting no RF, but don't see the
likelihood of getting multiple RFs - which is also a very real
possibility.

More to follow.

         Robert

>
> You mention that the RF Cycle is 40,390 but that's "apparently"

not the

> average number of hands to win a RF. But I do not see you go on to

make this

> argument.
>
>
Be nice. It seems that the computation that was done was the

probability of getting 1 or

more Royal flushes, not the probability of getting exactly one.

Hence, post did not address

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "cdfsrule" <vpfree_digests@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jason Pawloski" <jpawloski@> wrote:
the question of the average number of hands to win a RF.

I didn't mean to sound or come across as rude, I was just trying to nudge
him or her in the direction of why his or her thinking was wrong.

···

On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 6:18 AM, cdfsrule <vpfree_digests@vpfree2.com>wrote:

   --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com>, "Jason
Pawloski" <jpawloski@...> wrote:
>
> You mention that the RF Cycle is 40,390 but that's "apparently" not the
> average number of hands to win a RF. But I do not see you go on to make
this
> argument.
>
>
Be nice. It seems that the computation that was done was the probability of
getting 1 or
more Royal flushes, not the probability of getting exactly one. Hence, post
did not address
the question of the average number of hands to win a RF.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Having experienced several 100000+ hand royal droughts, I have a hard
time agreeing that it is "unlikely".

An interesting fact is that the probability of going 100000 hands
without a royal (0.0842) is almost four times that of completing a
royal with a one card draw (0.0212)!

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tenore_s" <tenore_s@...> wrote:

So we see that it is entirely possible to play 100,000 hands or more
without getting the RF, although it is unlikely.

"Unless you are an experienced video poker player in for the
duration, you should not play with any expectation of hitting the
royal."
--Bill Haywood, A Shrewd Player's Guide to Internet Gambling

"Poor players tend to make more draws that have a chance to result in
a royal flush. By doing this, they they may increase their frequency
of hitting by 30%, but it costs them dearly in terms of money lost
between royals.
--Anthony Curtis

"Nothing can quite compete with that delicious sensation of receiving
four cards to a royal flush on the initial hand."
--Frank Scoblete

The chase after the fleeting royal can be interminable. It requires a
new level of stamina, both mental and on the pads of your fingers."
--Bill Haywood, A Shrewd Player's Guide to Internet Gambling

"A royal flush is sorta like a tornado. Many have read about them,
but very few have ever seen one."
--VP Pappy

"Is there anything more beautiful to a gambler than getting a royal
flush, except for maybe lining up three "TEN TIMES" symbols on a slot
machine?"
--VP Pappy

"The best place to get a royal flush in a casino, is in the
restrooms."
--VP Pappy

···

_________________________________________________________

"The best place to get a royal flush in a casino is in the restroom."
--VP Pappy

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "neilemb" <nembree@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "tenore_s" <tenore_s@> wrote:

> So we see that it is entirely possible to play 100,000 hands or

more

> without getting the RF, although it is unlikely.

Having experienced several 100000+ hand royal droughts, I have a

hard

time agreeing that it is "unlikely".

An interesting fact is that the probability of going 100000 hands
without a royal (0.0842) is almost four times that of completing a
royal with a one card draw (0.0212)!