vpFREE2 Forums

Slot Tournament Payback

#1

I am wondering whether one of our math whizzes can help me decide
whether entering this tournament is worthwhile.

There is a $5000 entry fee. This gains one entry into two separate
tournaments There will be 200 participants total.

Here is the prize breakdown:

Tourney 1

1st Place $400,000
2d 50,000
3-4 25,000
5-20 5,000
21-40 2,500

Places 5-40 receive their prize in slot credit.

Tourney 2

1st Place $250,000
2d 100,000
3d 75,000
4-6 25,000
7-20 2,500
21-40 750
41-200 500

Places 7-200 receive their prize in slot credit

Obivously, everyone receives at least $500 in slot credit. Beyond
that, how good (or bad) a deal does this appear to be.

Thanks for the help!

#2

Divide the total prize pool by the number of participants to get the
expected value of your entry. If I understand the prize structure
correctly, both tournaments have a similar prize pool. The first is just
more top heavy. You get a value of about $3150 for your $5000 entry fee.
Value of slot credits would depend on what they have to play.

It's not often I get to contribute my minimal math talents...

Chandler

···

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com]On Behalf Of
rgj21
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 3:36 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Slot Tournament Payback

I am wondering whether one of our math whizzes can help me decide
whether entering this tournament is worthwhile.

There is a $5000 entry fee. This gains one entry into two separate
tournaments There will be 200 participants total.

Here is the prize breakdown:

Tourney 1

1st Place $400,000
2d 50,000
3-4 25,000
5-20 5,000
21-40 2,500

Places 5-40 receive their prize in slot credit.

Tourney 2

1st Place $250,000
2d 100,000
3d 75,000
4-6 25,000
7-20 2,500
21-40 750
41-200 500

Places 7-200 receive their prize in slot credit

Obivously, everyone receives at least $500 in slot credit. Beyond
that, how good (or bad) a deal does this appear to be.

Thanks for the help!

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

#3

Chandler wrote:

Divide the total prize pool by the number of participants to get the
expected value of your entry. If I understand the prize structure
correctly, both tournaments have a similar prize pool. The first is
just more top heavy. You get a value of about $3150 for your $5000
entry fee.
Value of slot credits would depend on what they have to play.

$3150 is the EV for each of the two tournaments (total prize pool in
each case is $630,000, divided among 200 entrants). However, rgj21
stated that the $5K fee enters you into both tournaments, thus the
total expected payback for an entry is $6300 (adjusted as is
appropriate for any discount on slot credit value).

- Harry

#4

Chandler,

If I am reading the original post correctly, the $5000 gets you entry into
BOTH of the tournaments. If that is the case, the total prize pool is
significantly higher than the money the casino is taking in. In fact, the
portions being paid in case equal the entry fees that will be collected.

If the fee gets entry into just one of the tournaments, it is not a good
deal; if it gets entry into both, it is a fantastic deal with an expected
value of about $1300.

Ken

···

On 7/13/07, Chandler <omnibibulous1@comcast.net> wrote:

  Divide the total prize pool by the number of participants to get the
expected value of your entry. If I understand the prize structure
correctly, both tournaments have a similar prize pool. The first is just
more top heavy. You get a value of about $3150 for your $5000 entry fee.
Value of slot credits would depend on what they have to play.

It's not often I get to contribute my minimal math talents...

Chandler

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:
vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com>]On Behalf Of
rgj21
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 3:36 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Slot Tournament Payback

I am wondering whether one of our math whizzes can help me decide
whether entering this tournament is worthwhile.

There is a $5000 entry fee. This gains one entry into two separate
tournaments There will be 200 participants total.

Here is the prize breakdown:

Tourney 1

1st Place $400,000
2d 50,000
3-4 25,000
5-20 5,000
21-40 2,500

Places 5-40 receive their prize in slot credit.

Tourney 2

1st Place $250,000
2d 100,000
3d 75,000
4-6 25,000
7-20 2,500
21-40 750
41-200 500

Places 7-200 receive their prize in slot credit

Obivously, everyone receives at least $500 in slot credit. Beyond
that, how good (or bad) a deal does this appear to be.

Thanks for the help!

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#5

That is correct, Harry. The $5000 fee gets you into both
tournaments. Sounds like a great deal. I will go for it!

Thanks for the help, all.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rgj21" <igtddb@...> wrote:

I am wondering whether one of our math whizzes can help me decide
whether entering this tournament is worthwhile.

There is a $5000 entry fee. This gains one entry into two separate
tournaments There will be 200 participants total.

Here is the prize breakdown:

Tourney 1

1st Place $400,000
2d 50,000
3-4 25,000
5-20 5,000
21-40 2,500

Places 5-40 receive their prize in slot credit.

Tourney 2

1st Place $250,000
2d 100,000
3d 75,000
4-6 25,000
7-20 2,500
21-40 750
41-200 500

Places 7-200 receive their prize in slot credit

Obivously, everyone receives at least $500 in slot credit. Beyond
that, how good (or bad) a deal does this appear to be.

Thanks for the help!

#6

I agree with the expected return calcuations. However, another
consideration that I would factor in is the variance. Or, more
reaasnably stated, the likelihood you will win. In the first case
there are 20 out of 200 situations where you get your money back or
better. In the second situation there are only 6 chances out of 200.
In others words, there is a high probability you will lose a good
share of the $5K.

When faced with these situations I think it is wise to consider the
overall risk/reward of playing. It's not like you get these
opporunities enough times that you can count on convergence to the
mean. I don't know your personal situation and whether $5K is a lot
of money or not. However, I think that should also be part of the
decision process.

Dick

That is correct, Harry. The $5000 fee gets you into both
tournaments. Sounds like a great deal. I will go for it!

Thanks for the help, all.

>
> I am wondering whether one of our math whizzes can help me decide
> whether entering this tournament is worthwhile.
>
> There is a $5000 entry fee. This gains one entry into two

separate

> tournaments There will be 200 participants total.
>
> Here is the prize breakdown:
>
> Tourney 1
>
> 1st Place $400,000
> 2d 50,000
> 3-4 25,000
> 5-20 5,000
> 21-40 2,500
>
> Places 5-40 receive their prize in slot credit.
>
> Tourney 2
>
> 1st Place $250,000
> 2d 100,000
> 3d 75,000
> 4-6 25,000
> 7-20 2,500
> 21-40 750
> 41-200 500
>
> Places 7-200 receive their prize in slot credit
>
> Obivously, everyone receives at least $500 in slot credit.

Beyond

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rgj21" <igtddb@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rgj21" <igtddb@> wrote:
> that, how good (or bad) a deal does this appear to be.
>
> Thanks for the help!
>

#7

I made a reading error on a math question. Bleh, the irony...

Chandler

···

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com]On Behalf Of
Harry Porter
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 5:21 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Slot Tournament Payback

Chandler wrote:

Divide the total prize pool by the number of participants to get the
expected value of your entry. If I understand the prize structure
correctly, both tournaments have a similar prize pool. The first is
just more top heavy. You get a value of about $3150 for your $5000
entry fee.
Value of slot credits would depend on what they have to play.

$3150 is the EV for each of the two tournaments (total prize pool in
each case is $630,000, divided among 200 entrants). However, rgj21
stated that the $5K fee enters you into both tournaments, thus the
total expected payback for an entry is $6300 (adjusted as is
appropriate for any discount on slot credit value).

- Harry

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups Links

#8

Right you are.... EV on the $5K entry is 26% assuming the prize pool is $1.26M
[ $1.26M / 200 / $5K ]
The payout data can be used to compute the PDF and CDF, for the two tourneys
combined (and therefore the variance, etc). Here are the results for up to $5500,

$/ 1K P Cum% 100-Cum
0.000 0.00 100 00.0
0.500 0.64 64 36.0
0.750 0.08 72 28.0
2.500 0.056 77.6 22.4
3.000 0.08 85.6 14.4
3.250 0.01 86.6 13.4
5.000 0.007 87.3 12.7
5.500 0.064 93.7 6.3

How to read the table:
There is no way to win $0.
64% of folks will win $500 or less; 36% will win more than $500
72% will win $750 or less; 28% will more than $750
and so on,
until, you find that 12.7% of folks will win more than $5000 (break even is at $5000)

Also: The most likely win is $500. Exactly 5% (10 people) will win more than the average
win of $6300 (you can't win $6300 exactly). Hence, the mean (average) is to the "right" of
the mode (most likely value), typical of all casino games.

#9

Thanks Dick. This was the second part of my question. Since the
$5000 fee gets you into both tournaments, is it correct that I have
a 26 out of 200 or 13% chance of getting my money back? This sounds
a lot worse that saying that I am 50/50 to win $6300.

On the other hand, the top prizes are so big that it would seem that
the risk may be worthwhile when that is factored in.

I agree with the expected return calcuations. However, another
consideration that I would factor in is the variance. Or, more
reaasnably stated, the likelihood you will win. In the first case
there are 20 out of 200 situations where you get your money back

or

better. In the second situation there are only 6 chances out of

200.

In others words, there is a high probability you will lose a good
share of the $5K.

When faced with these situations I think it is wise to consider

the

overall risk/reward of playing. It's not like you get these
opporunities enough times that you can count on convergence to the
mean. I don't know your personal situation and whether $5K is a

lot

of money or not. However, I think that should also be part of the
decision process.

Dick

>
> That is correct, Harry. The $5000 fee gets you into both
> tournaments. Sounds like a great deal. I will go for it!
>
> Thanks for the help, all.
>
>
>
> >
> > I am wondering whether one of our math whizzes can help me

decide

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mroejacks" <rgmustain@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rgj21" <igtddb@> wrote:
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rgj21" <igtddb@> wrote:
> > whether entering this tournament is worthwhile.
> >
> > There is a $5000 entry fee. This gains one entry into two
separate
> > tournaments There will be 200 participants total.
> >
> > Here is the prize breakdown:
> >
> > Tourney 1
> >
> > 1st Place $400,000
> > 2d 50,000
> > 3-4 25,000
> > 5-20 5,000
> > 21-40 2,500
> >
> > Places 5-40 receive their prize in slot credit.
> >
> > Tourney 2
> >
> > 1st Place $250,000
> > 2d 100,000
> > 3d 75,000
> > 4-6 25,000
> > 7-20 2,500
> > 21-40 750
> > 41-200 500
> >
> > Places 7-200 receive their prize in slot credit
> >
> > Obivously, everyone receives at least $500 in slot credit.
Beyond
> > that, how good (or bad) a deal does this appear to be.
> >
> > Thanks for the help!
> >
>

#10

The risk/reward assessment is such a personal thing. I really don't
know what I'd do. However, if participation in the tournament means
you'll get invitations to future events like this then it gets more
worthwhile all the time.

That's why it's called gambling :wink:

Dick

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rgj21" <igtddb@...> wrote:

Thanks Dick. This was the second part of my question. Since the
$5000 fee gets you into both tournaments, is it correct that I have
a 26 out of 200 or 13% chance of getting my money back? This sounds
a lot worse that saying that I am 50/50 to win $6300.

On the other hand, the top prizes are so big that it would seem that
the risk may be worthwhile when that is factored in.