vpFREE2 Forums

Singer and Luck re:Lawrence Boxer's comments

Lawrence (et all...)

The problem with Rob Singer is that he misleads people
who don't have the mathematical/scientific background
to assess what he says or what the actual experts say.
And since he yells the loudest and uses ad hominem
attacks, some of them might listen. I am not saying
these people are stupid or uneducated - just that
their
backgrounds/inclinations are such that they could be
misled, and Singer profits from it (by selling books)
and that just makes me sick.

Lawrence's message is an example... he says that you
can't discount luck. But what does that mean? Should I
go home and practice my luck on winpoker? Sorry - you
cannot practice luck. Do a prayer to the VP Gods for
better luck? No such thing.

Perfect play isn't enough? Then what else do you need?

Reality - to be a successful VP player you need two
things. You need to play perfectly on a game with
positive EV, and you need a properly sized bankroll to

account for the inherent variance of the game.
Bankroll
size is a factor of the variance of the game and the
edge you have. That is how you account for the
factor of "luck" - by having enough money behind you
such that the luck will even out without you going
broke. Period.

"Lawrence Boxer" <ljboxer@earthlink.net> writes...

If you discount the role of luck completely, you are
wrong. Even professional card counters know that
they've got to be lucky in addition to being good.
Trying to eliminate luck as a factor is just as
misleading as it is to tell a novice that he can
"bull" his way through a session relying on luck
alone.

There is absolutely no question that correct play is
extremely important because it keeps a player in the
game longer. In a sense, if it makes you feel better
about it, being good helps you make your own luck. But

perfect play, all by itself, isn't enough, and it's
misleading to act as if it is.

···

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Reality - to be a successful VP player you need two
things. You need to play perfectly on a game with
positive EV, and you need a properly sized bankroll to

account for the inherent variance of the game.
Bankroll
size is a factor of the variance of the game and the
edge you have. That is how you account for the
factor of "luck" - by having enough money behind you
such that the luck will even out without you going
broke. Period.

That's right! Your luck is bound to change if your money can hold out.
CF

No, you can't "practice" luck, but it's a cute question. <g>

As for Rob Singer, well....never mind.

lb

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: John Elway
  To: vpfree@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 12:24 PM
  Subject: [vpFREE] Singer and Luck re:Lawrence Boxer's comments

  Lawrence (et all...)

  The problem with Rob Singer is that he misleads people
  who don't have the mathematical/scientific background
  to assess what he says or what the actual experts say.
  And since he yells the loudest and uses ad hominem
  attacks, some of them might listen. I am not saying
  these people are stupid or uneducated - just that
  their
  backgrounds/inclinations are such that they could be
  misled, and Singer profits from it (by selling books)
  and that just makes me sick.

  Lawrence's message is an example... he says that you
  can't discount luck. But what does that mean? Should I
  go home and practice my luck on winpoker? Sorry - you
  cannot practice luck. Do a prayer to the VP Gods for
  better luck? No such thing.

  Perfect play isn't enough? Then what else do you need?

  Reality - to be a successful VP player you need two
  things. You need to play perfectly on a game with
  positive EV, and you need a properly sized bankroll to

  account for the inherent variance of the game.
  Bankroll
  size is a factor of the variance of the game and the
  edge you have. That is how you account for the
  factor of "luck" - by having enough money behind you
  such that the luck will even out without you going
  broke. Period.

  "Lawrence Boxer" <ljboxer@earthlink.net> writes...

  If you discount the role of luck completely, you are
  wrong. Even professional card counters know that
  they've got to be lucky in addition to being good.
  Trying to eliminate luck as a factor is just as
  misleading as it is to tell a novice that he can
  "bull" his way through a session relying on luck
  alone.

  There is absolutely no question that correct play is
  extremely important because it keeps a player in the
  game longer. In a sense, if it makes you feel better
  about it, being good helps you make your own luck. But

  perfect play, all by itself, isn't enough, and it's
  misleading to act as if it is.

  __________________________________________________
  Do you Yahoo!?
  Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
  http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Or- as one successful live poker player once told me: Over time, everyone gets the same number of good hands and lousy hands. It's how you play those hands that separates the winners from the losers.
   Blessings and royals.

Elaine
If you discount the role of luck completely, you are
wrong. Even professional card counters know that
they've got to be lucky in addition to being good.
Trying to eliminate luck as a factor is just as
misleading as it is to tell a novice that he can
"bull" his way through a session relying on luck
alone.

There is absolutely no question that correct play is
extremely important because it keeps a player in the
game longer. In a sense, if it makes you feel better
about it, being good helps you make your own luck. But

···

---------------------------------
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Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

No, I don't completely discount the value of luck.
I see luck as short-term: Will I win or lose today? I see skill as long term: Will I win or lose over the long haul? But that haul can be VERY long, and ends when you croak.
   Of course, a stretch of extremely good luck can give your bankroll a comfortable cushion to ride out the inevitable losing streaks. If the streak of real bad luck comes first, it can wipe out your bankroll and stop your game entirely.
   May luck be with everyone.

Elaine-

···

Elaine Rose <atlanticcityrose@yahoo.com> wrote:
Or- as one successful live poker player once told me: Over time, everyone gets the same number of good hands and lousy hands. It's how you play those hands that separates the winners from the losers.
   Blessings and royals.

Elaine
If you discount the role of luck completely, you are
wrong. Even professional card counters know that
they've got to be lucky in addition to being good.
Trying to eliminate luck as a factor is just as
misleading as it is to tell a novice that he can
"bull" his way through a session relying on luck
alone.

There is absolutely no question that correct play is
extremely important because it keeps a player in the
game longer. In a sense, if it makes you feel better
about it, being good helps you make your own luck. But

---------------------------------
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Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Or- as one successful live poker player once told me: Over time, everyone gets the same number of good hands and lousy hands. It's how you play those hands that separates the winners from the losers.<<

I wish I'd said that. And at some point I will.

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: Elaine Rose
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 1:01 PM
  Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Singer and Luck re:Lawrence Boxer's comments

  Or- as one successful live poker player once told me: Over time, everyone gets the same number of good hands and lousy hands. It's how you play those hands that separates the winners from the losers.
     Blessings and royals.

  Elaine
  If you discount the role of luck completely, you are
  wrong. Even professional card counters know that
  they've got to be lucky in addition to being good.
  Trying to eliminate luck as a factor is just as
  misleading as it is to tell a novice that he can
  "bull" his way through a session relying on luck
  alone.

  There is absolutely no question that correct play is
  extremely important because it keeps a player in the
  game longer. In a sense, if it makes you feel better
  about it, being good helps you make your own luck. But

  ---------------------------------
  Do you Yahoo!?
  Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site

  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Or- as one successful live poker player once told me: Over time,

  >>> everyone gets the same number of good hands and lousy hands. It's
  >>> how you play those hands that separates the winners from the
  >>> losers.<<
  >>
  >
  > I wish I'd said that. And at some point I will.

  >Why? Because it sounds cute? The fact is, it isn't >true in the sense that it is a law -- that it will >happen.

  True. I'll just say it because it sounds cute.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]