vpFREE2 Forums

Simple Pick'em

I see that Atlantis Reno now lists $1 and $.25 Pick'em. I'll be
traveling there on Xmas with my mother for the slot tourney. My mother
likes to play VP, but has trouble with strategies. I recall some
discussion of a super-simplified Pick'em strategy (4 or 6 lines or
something) that didn't lose much EV.

I did some archive searching but was unable to find it. Could anyone
point me to such a strategy, appropriate for a nervous beginner?

Big thanks.

Stuart (RandomStu)
http://home.comcast.net/~sresnick2/mypage.htm

Stuart wrote: I recall some discussion of a super-simplified Pick'em
strategy . . . Could anyone point me to such a strategy, appropriate for
a nervous beginner?

The Dancer / Daily Winner's Guide Volume 5 is on Pick'Em Poker. There is
both a beginner strategy and a 100%-accurate strategy. It includes
hundreds of lots hands that allow you to improve. The game is quite
simple, and your nervous beginner won't be a nervous beginner for long.
Having a perfect strategy in the same place (along with many other
sample hands) allows them to quickly move up once the nervousness wears
off.

Bob Dancer

For the best in video poker information, visit www.bobdancer.com
or call 1-800-244-2224 M-F 9-5 Pacific Time.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Stu,

Pick'em is certainly a good choice for someone who has trouble with
strategies. Most of the Pick'em strategy is obvious. You can take
the strategy from VP free and hilite the few most common problem hands.

1 Hi card > ST with 2 gaps and 0 Hi cards
ST with 1 gap and 0 Hi > 1 Hi
ST with 2 gaps and 1 Hi > ST with 1 gap and 0 Hi
2 Hi cards > ST with 2 gaps and 1 Hi

I believe learning the bottom 4 hands above will save the most EV
because most of the other decisions are obvious or they won't cost you
much. You might want to add this one:

FL with 2 Hi > Low Pair

Good Luck and have a greattrip!

Chris

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Stuart" <sresnick2@c...> wrote:

I see that Atlantis Reno now lists $1 and $.25 Pick'em. I'll be
traveling there on Xmas with my mother for the slot tourney. My mother
likes to play VP, but has trouble with strategies. I recall some
discussion of a super-simplified Pick'em strategy (4 or 6 lines or
something) that didn't lose much EV.

First, I must say that I admire Mr.Dancer for both the good fortune and good
luck he has found in the realm of video poker. I congratulate him on his
commercial success. But it seems to me that the board has increasingly
become an outlet for FREE commercial advertising. I don't think this forum
serves the best interests of the membership by becoming an outlet for
individual posters to sell products/information for a profit. I believe a
more appropriate response would have been to give a simple strategy as a
previous responder did. Then perhaps, the responder could have mentioned
that a more detailed strategy is available for sale. There are numerous
commercial outlets available for advertising. This is really the only FREE
forum available for players to obtain answers to strategy and other VP
questions. I believe 99% of the members subscribe to vpFREE to share
information, strategy and opinion for FREE. I for one would prefer that
those looking to make personal financial gains from the other subscribers
use the many traditional commercial outlets available for advertising. If
the only information contained in a post is a advertisement for a commercial
product does it really belong on vpFREE?

···

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com]On Behalf Of
Bob Dancer
Sent: Sunday, December 18, 2005 7:31 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Simple Pick'em

Stuart wrote: I recall some discussion of a super-simplified Pick'em
strategy . . . Could anyone point me to such a strategy, appropriate for
a nervous beginner?

The Dancer / Daily Winner's Guide Volume 5 is on Pick'Em Poker. There is
both a beginner strategy and a 100%-accurate strategy. It includes
hundreds of lots hands that allow you to improve. The game is quite
simple, and your nervous beginner won't be a nervous beginner for long.
Having a perfect strategy in the same place (along with many other
sample hands) allows them to quickly move up once the nervousness wears
off.

Bob Dancer

For the best in video poker information, visit www.bobdancer.com
or call 1-800-244-2224 M-F 9-5 Pacific Time.

Bob, Jean, Skip, Dunbar and the others who sell VP-related products give us all quite a bit of valuable info for free by posting on this board. Surely you know that nothing in life is truly free, and I'm sure that a big part of their incentive for posting is being able to include their commercial promos. Since I'm more than happy to take their free advice, I'm also happy to see that they get their 'payment' (as paltry as it is).
   
  How many doctors, lawyers or accountants do you know who give their services away to the general public for free? I don't know any... The folks you criticize are professionals and deserve to be compensated for sharing their expertise.
   
  IMHO, we all owe them a big vote of thanks, not criticism.
   
  Lainie

···

vpvegas <vpvegas@charter.net> wrote:
  I don't think this forum
serves the best interests of the membership by becoming an outlet for
individual posters to sell products/information for a profit.
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Just about all, at some time or another, do a significant amount of "pro bono" work. It is
just that most of them do not shout it from the rooftops.

.....bl

  How many doctors, lawyers or accountants do you know who give their services away

to the general public for free? I don't know any... The folks you criticize are professionals
and deserve to be compensated for sharing their expertise.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Lainie Wolf <lainiewolf702@y...> wrote:

   
  Lainie

I would be cautious of comparing doctors and lawyers to the people on
this list who sell VP products.

Also, someone already pointed this out but those professionals are
literally expected to do pro bono work.

···

On 12/19/05, Lainie Wolf <lainiewolf702@yahoo.com> wrote:

Bob, Jean, Skip, Dunbar and the others who sell VP-related products give us all quite a bit of valuable info for free by posting on this board. Surely you know that nothing in life is truly free, and I'm sure that a big part of their incentive for posting is being able to include their commercial promos. Since I'm more than happy to take their free advice, I'm also happy to see that they get their 'payment' (as paltry as it is).

How many doctors, lawyers or accountants do you know who give their services away to the general public for free? I don't know any... The folks you criticize are professionals and deserve to be compensated for sharing their expertise.

IMHO, we all owe them a big vote of thanks, not criticism.

Lainie

vpvegas <vpvegas@charter.net> wrote:
I don't think this forum
serves the best interests of the membership by becoming an outlet for
individual posters to sell products/information for a profit.
__________________________________________________

Clearly you and the Born Loser are missing my point.
   
  Doctors and lawyers do pro bono work for indigent people and non-profit (501C3) organizations who need their services and cannot afford them. These professionals typically don't do pro bono work on "for profit initiatives" or for people who have the means to pay for the services provided.
   
  If someone is playing vp for profit (and as advantage players, you have to assume that everyone on this board is playing for profit -- we all define our profit differently), then by definition, that board member is not a charity case and as such, is not worthy of pro bono work from the professionals who sell their advice.
   
  The answer is simple. If someone doesn't want to value the posts of the folks who have vp-related things to sell and doesn't want to see marketing messages, they can block (or delete) emails from Bob, Jean, Skip, etc., so they never have to read them.
   
  Lainie
  
  I would be cautious of comparing doctors and lawyers to the people on
this list who sell VP products.

Also, someone already pointed this out but those professionals are
literally expected to do pro bono work.

···

Eric <fieldcommand@gmail.com> wrote:

On 12/19/05, Lainie Wolf <lainiewolf702@yahoo.com> wrote:

Bob, Jean, Skip, Dunbar and the others who sell VP-related products give us all quite a bit of valuable info for free by posting on this board. Surely you know that nothing in life is truly free, and I'm sure that a big part of their incentive for posting is being able to include their commercial promos. Since I'm more than happy to take their free advice, I'm also happy to see that they get their 'payment' (as paltry as it is).

How many doctors, lawyers or accountants do you know who give their services away to the general public for free? I don't know any... The folks you criticize are professionals and deserve to be compensated for sharing their expertise.

IMHO, we all owe them a big vote of thanks, not criticism.

Lainie

vpvegas <vpvegas@charter.net> wrote:
I don't think this forum
serves the best interests of the membership by becoming an outlet for
individual posters to sell products/information for a profit.
__________________________________________________

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vpvegas wrote: First, I must say that I admire Mr.Dancer for both the
good fortune and good luck he has found in the realm of video poker. . .
If the only information contained in a post is a advertisement for a
commercial product does it really belong on vpFREE?
  
I excerpted the first and last sentences of the vpvegas post, but I
think I caught the gist of it. And before I begin answering, I'd like to
thank Lainie for her support on this subject.

Thanx for the admiration, I think, except you left out (perhaps
accidentally, perhaps not) such things as skill, knowledge, and teaching
skill. My "good luck" is not something I can transfer to others. My
skill and knowledge is something I can. Several of my students are now
averaging more than $50,000 a year playing video poker.

There is a HUGE difference between a partial strategy like the one
presented here and a good beginner's strategy. There is a big difference
between giving someone just a strategy (even a complete one) and also
providing examples, test questions, reasons why, and other information
that the Winner's Guides present and aren't presented elsewhere.

There are players for whom the only relevant distinction is FREE versus
NOT FREE. Okay. So be it. I do not accept that vpFREE is populated
mostly by such players. Many people recognize the difference between
better quality and lesser quality. And they accept that there's a price
difference as well.

The Winner's Guides make a big difference in the knowledge level of
players --- even at the beginner level. The strategy posted here is
useless without a LOT of additional information (including it's a 9s or
Better game, it's a game of restricted choice, and even how to look at
hands such as Kh Qh / Jh / Qd, what to do in the case of ties, etc.).
Even a simplified strategy needs to cover all hands.

If someone wants accurate information, I see nothing wrong with telling
them where to get it. If someone takes the position that "if it's not
free I don't want it," then you are welcome to use Lainie's suggestion
of not reading any post by me. Or even blocking all emails from me. I
would not be offended (or even know that you did it.)

And I still believe the answer to the original post, saying
(approximately) "My Mom is nervous about the game. What's the best way
to get her started?" is to get her the relevant Winner's Guide and go
through it with her.

Bob Dancer

For the best in video poker information, visit www.bobdancer.com
or call 1-800-244-2224 M-F 9-5 Pacific Time.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Clearly you and the Born Loser are missing my point.

No. what is clear is that you are all missing the damn point. Yesterday,
Stu asked the question regarding the availability of a simple strategy for
Pick'em. Most of the replies seem to pertain to the ulterior motives behind
someone's legitimate answer to the question. My question to all of you
who's replies fit into this category is, what is YOUR point? I doubt that
Stu cares whether doctors and lawyers work pro bono or if any of them work
for Bono from U2. Just my take. Anyway Stu, here is my answer to your
question, taken from a 2002 post to vp-mail. If I am infringing any
copyright laws here, haul my big fat satchel ass into court. The pick'em
post read as follows:

  Mike,

I find that the following simple strategy is almost always correct:

1. pick the highest pair
2. pick a 3 card flush
3. pick a 3 card straight
3. if you can make a 3 card straight with one gap, pick that over a high
card
4. pick a high card
5. other things being equal, pick a card that can make a straight

Dick Kalagher
dick@kalagher.com

···

From: "Lainie Wolf" <lainiewolf702@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Simple Pick'em

----- Original Message -----
From: "MIchael Aclin" <aclinml@usa.net>
To: <vpmail@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 2:35 PM
Subject: [vpmail] Simple 'Pick 'em' strategy?

Does anyone have a 'simple' strategy for Pick 'em? Something around 10 -

15

entries. The only one I have has about 30 entries. Looking to give up a

couple

of hundreths of percentage for a simpler strategy.

Thanks,
Mike

Nudge

Nudge, I get your point. Or at least I think I do. Was your point
that unless one can answer the original poster's question (and not
the post to which one actually responded to) -- that one should not,
under any circumstances, respond to any subsequent posts in the
thread?

Sorry if my snipping and highlighting ONLY the text I was responding
to offended you. Perhaps I should have changed the title and
started a whole new thread, as I just did. Does this make you
happier? I hope so; I JUST HATE IT WHEN YOU'RE UNHAPPY.

Other than that, my comments stand, and they clearly were in direct
reply to the text that I snipped from others' posts.

Lainie

No. what is clear is that you are all missing the damn point.

Yesterday,

Stu asked the question regarding the availability of a simple

strategy for

Pick'em. Most of the replies seem to pertain to the ulterior

motives behind

someone's legitimate answer to the question. My question to all

of you

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nudge51" <nudge51@c...> wrote:

who's replies fit into this category is, what is YOUR point?

playing video poker.

Any "students" losing $50,000 a year??

Neil L

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Dancer" <bob.dancer@c...> wrote:

Several of my students are now averaging more than $50,000 a year

Stuart wrote:

I see that Atlantis Reno now lists $1 and $.25 Pick'em. I'll be traveling there on Xmas with my mother for the slot tourney. My mother likes to play VP, but has trouble with strategies. I recall some discussion of a super-simplified Pick'em strategy (4 or 6 lines or something) that didn't lose much EV.

I did some archive searching but was unable to find it. Could anyone point me to such a strategy, appropriate for a nervous beginner?

Big thanks.

Hi Stu;
You might be recalling a strategy that Toonces came up with several years ago. I have been publishing a version of that strategy on the back of my Pick'em card. It is a combination of a table form of strategy and a rule-based strategy. Some find it extremely easy, other find it a little too strange. Here is a version of it simplified a little more. Analysis by FVP indicates this still will return 99.95%
THREE OF A KIND
THREE TO A ROYAL
HIGH PAIR (9-A)
THREE TO A STRAIGHT FLUSH *Rule 1: **Pick the SF with the least gaps. If the same number of gaps, pick the one with more high cards.*
LOW PAIR (2-8)
For the next five hands, see Below
FLUSH
STRAIGHT
INSIDE STRAIGHT
DOUBLE INSIDE STRAIGHT
NO STRAIGHT OR FLUSH POSSIBLE
*Rule 2:When picking between two hands on the bottom five hands, choose the higher-listed hand, except between two adjacent hands, choose the lower hand if it has an extra HC. **Between two hands of the same kind, pick the one with an extra HC - if the same number of HC, choose either one.*

(For instance, 3 HC is better than a DBL INS STR w/2 HC, but not as good as an INS STR w/2 HC. A STR w/2 HC is better than a FLUSH w/1 HC.)
NOTE: In PE, there can never be more than 1 HC difference between two hands.

Hope that helps,
Skip
http://www.vpinsider.com

Here's one for you Skip. I posted a few weeks ago asking for a simple
strategy on Pick'em. I either was pointed to one or found one myself.
Anyway, I played the game for a few hours on the good old Dancer
game. Learned what I thought I needed and made a good cheat sheet.
(I'm a do it yourselfer) Couldn't wait to get back and play that
lousy boring Pick'em game at full pay dollar and some $5. Sat down
for a first run at the game. Fired a hundred into the game and I was
off and running. About 10 plays later I thought something seemed
wrong. I took closer look at pay table and ....It was reduced!!
Things can change fast. No longer full pay. Here's the good part; I
got a 4kd and was ahead of the game. I cashed out a winner and I am
thankful I will not be tempted to play the game again as my regular
gambling joint doesn't carry Pick'em with good paytable.

Cheers... jeep
.
.

Stuart wrote:

>I see that Atlantis Reno now lists $1 and $.25 Pick'em. I'll be
>traveling there on Xmas with my mother for the slot tourney. My

mother

>likes to play VP, but has trouble with strategies. I recall some
>discussion of a super-simplified Pick'em strategy (4 or 6 lines or
>something) that didn't lose much EV.
>
>I did some archive searching but was unable to find it. Could

anyone

>point me to such a strategy, appropriate for a nervous beginner?
>
>Big thanks.
>

Hi Stu;
You might be recalling a strategy that Toonces came up with

several

years ago. I have been publishing a version of that strategy on the

back

of my Pick'em card. It is a combination of a table form of strategy

and

a rule-based strategy. Some find it extremely easy, other find it a
little too strange. Here is a version of it simplified a little

more.

Analysis by FVP indicates this still will return 99.95%
THREE OF A KIND
THREE TO A ROYAL
HIGH PAIR (9-A)
THREE TO A STRAIGHT FLUSH *Rule 1: **Pick the SF with the least

gaps.

If the same number of gaps, pick the one with more high cards.*
LOW PAIR (2-8)
For the next five hands, see Below
FLUSH
STRAIGHT
INSIDE STRAIGHT
DOUBLE INSIDE STRAIGHT
NO STRAIGHT OR FLUSH POSSIBLE
*Rule 2:When picking between two hands on the bottom five hands,

choose

the higher-listed hand, except between two adjacent hands, choose

the

lower hand if it has an extra HC. **Between two hands of the same

kind,

pick the one with an extra HC - if the same number of HC, choose

either

one.*

(For instance, 3 HC is better than a DBL INS STR w/2 HC, but not as

good

as an INS STR w/2 HC. A STR w/2 HC is better than a FLUSH w/1 HC.)
NOTE: In PE, there can never be more than 1 HC difference between

two hands.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Skip Hughes <skiphughes@e...> wrote:

Hope that helps,
Skip
http://www.vpinsider.com

Thank you Mr. Dancer for that detailed response. It was most informative.
Now I am very curious. Could you expound on your "students" success? How
many do you know make in excess of $50,000 a year playing video poker? How
big is their bankroll? What games do they play? What domination of machines
do they play? Is $50,000 a yearly average or would this be over a period of
many years with some years being $500,000 profit and some ($300,000) loss
years? Thank you in advance for taking time to expound on this topic.

···

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com]On Behalf Of
Bob Dancer
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 4:32 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Simple Pick'em

Thanx for the admiration, I think, except you left out (perhaps
accidentally, perhaps not) such things as skill, knowledge, and teaching
skill. My "good luck" is not something I can transfer to others. My
skill and knowledge is something I can. Several of my students are now
averaging more than $50,000 a year playing video poker.

I enjoy the unique perspective that you bring to the forum and always look
forward to reading your posts, Lainie. But I think you missed my point. Yes,
some things in life are free. The best example I can think of at the moment
is vpFREE. No member is charged for reading or posting here. 99% of the
members never receive a single penny for their contributions to this forum.
If one chose to block those individuals who post for profit, how would we be
able to find the few free golden nuggets that they leave now and then? In
the spirit of frugality, I would like to see more not less of the freebie
posts.

···

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com]On Behalf Of
Lainie Wolf
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2005 3:05 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Simple Pick'em

Clearly you and the Born Loser are missing my point.

  The answer is simple. If someone doesn't want to value the posts of the
folks who have vp-related things to sell and doesn't want to see marketing
messages, they can block (or delete) emails from Bob, Jean, Skip, etc., so
they never have to read them.

  Lainie

vpvegas , Thank you very much for your kind words and compliment. What a nice way to start my day! I think I fully understand your point, and in an idealistic, altruistic world, I would agree with you totally. Unfortunately, I don't live in that world (although I would like to vacation there <g>).
   
  There are many wonderful things in life that appear to be free but actually are not. Here's a non-vp example.
   
  I've been watching Channel 3 in Las Vegas and seeing the generosity of Walker Furniture with their "Home for the Holidays" efforts. They have given 23 needy families new furniture and brightened many lives. As part of the campaign, there have been many features on TV, showing the recipients getting their furniture and voicing their thanks.
   
  Walker paid for the furniture donation and paid for their advertising, which in turn, gave KVBC a good business reason to be promoting Walker's generosity during news segments. Since most media outlets have policies against selling space during the news, I'm pretty sure that Walker did NOT pay for the in-news-segment plugs, yet they continue to get all the advertising value, and KVBC gets to show the world that Las Vegas is a good, caring community. I'm equally confident that if Walker had not purchased all the ads promoting their "Home for the Holidays" efforts, then they wuld not have received all the in-news-segment plugs. So, are those plugs free?
   
  Similarly, think for a moment about all those families who received the furniture and were shown on TV receiving their gifts. They got their furniture for no money, but paid for it by publicly saying that they could not afford furniture and telling snippets of their hard luck stories. Viewers like watching the "heartwarming" hard luck stories that have positive outcomes. IMHO, I think that the recipients pay a big price for their furniture by having to do this on TV and seeing it repeatedly.
   
  Put differently, if Walker Furniture is as generous as they want us to think that they are, they would either just give away the furniture and not shout about their generosity (the way companies like Target and McDonalds do their corporate giving) -- or they would give away the furniture without revealing the identities of the actual recipients (like Jean Scott's holiday gift drive for that school).
   
  I believe that Walker Furniture (and other businesses) give away furniture (and other gifts) because they want customers and potential customers to know that they are good community supporters and because they want to generate more awareness of their products.
   
  These are the same primary reasons I believe the vp pros participate actively on this board. Like you, I love getting their freebies. Also like you, I would like to see more of them - and have more "golden moments." I think the only difference of opinion you and I have is that I think that if we were to begrudge the pros their awareness vehicle (e.g., their ability to promote themselves) then, I fear we would wind up with fewer freebies.
   
  Regardless, I appreciate the fact that we can have differences of opinion, and I'm glad that we have the opportunity to express them. If I have to disagree with someone, I'm glad that I can disagree with such a classy person - and that we can express our views politely.
   
  Lainie

···

vpvegas <vpvegas@charter.net> wrote:
  I enjoy the unique perspective that you bring to the forum and always look
forward to reading your posts, Lainie. But I think you missed my point. Yes,
some things in life are free. The best example I can think of at the moment
is vpFREE. No member is charged for reading or posting here. 99% of the
members never receive a single penny for their contributions to this forum.
If one chose to block those individuals who post for profit, how would we be
able to find the few free golden nuggets that they leave now and then? In
the spirit of frugality, I would like to see more not less of the freebie
posts.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]