vpFREE2 Forums

Simple DDB Strategy Questions

#1

In a message dated 4/13/06 11:00:50 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
nudge51@cox.net writes:

···

From: "Curtis Rich" <LGTVegas@gmail.com>
Subject: [vpFREE] Simple DDB Strategy Questions

> When I am dealt three aces with a kicker, do I keep only the aces? Or, do
I
> keep the kicker, too?
>
> What about three other small cards (2-4) with a kicker?

The post from the member above also posted the following last month:

"Is anyone actually suggesting that we should not always
play the best paying schedule available with the best
possible strategy?

Seems to me that this is a no-brainer"

As near as I can tell, Mr. Rich has been posting since Aug. of last year and
still does not have software that would instantly answer this question.
Heck. just two % of the $2,000.00 royal that he hit at the Freemont would
have purchased either BDPW or FVP. I'll pass on the question.
             Nudge

*****
What bothers me is vpFREE provides so many resources to answer these kinds of
questions, even without coughing up for the great software out there. Is it
a lack of knowledge that these resources exist and are just a few clicks away,
or is it a lack of effort to explore, bookmark and utilize these resources?

The answer to the specific DDB (and now TDB) strategy questions can be found
walking this way: vpFREE Home Page>(scroll down past the royal picture) VP

VPSM Strategies.

Under VPSM Strategies are eleven different genres of VP, which leads to 25+
strategies for playable VP. TomSki has given permission to post his
non-penalty card strategies, thanks again.

Now if there are questions about interpreting the strategy or jargon fine,
ask away.

That is my two cents.

BS

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#2

Hey, BS. Thanks! Per your suggestion, I visited the
strategy page for DDB (located at
http://members.cox.net/vpfree/ST_DDB.htm#10/6).

Thanks to your recommendation, I also decided to
check out the strategy for TDB (located at
http://members.cox.net/vpfree/ST_TDB.htm).
The TDB strategy on this page appears to be different
than the strategy posted by staninnv, who said,
"....Keep one kicker with three 2-4's" (see post below).
The TDB strategy on this page does not mention ever
holding kickers with 2-4's.

So, now my question is:
Which strategy is correct for holding three small cards
(2-4)? Do I hold the kicker or not? And, what is the
difference mathematically? Maybe, the difference
between the two plays is negligible and it doesn't
really matter very much?

I appreciate any responses. Thank you very much.

···

On 4/14/06, GRAYTLEEGRAY@aol.com <GRAYTLEEGRAY@aol.com> wrote:

In a message dated 4/13/06 11:00:50 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
nudge51@cox.net writes:
> From: "Curtis Rich" <LGTVegas@gmail.com>
> Subject: [vpFREE] Simple DDB Strategy Questions
>
> > When I am dealt three aces with a kicker, do I keep only the
aces? Or, do
> I
> > keep the kicker, too?
> >
> > What about three other small cards (2-4) with a kicker?
>
> The post from the member above also posted the following last month:
>
> "Is anyone actually suggesting that we should not always
> play the best paying schedule available with the best
> possible strategy?
>
> Seems to me that this is a no-brainer"
>
> As near as I can tell, Mr. Rich has been posting since Aug. of last year
and
> still does not have software that would instantly answer this question.
> Heck. just two % of the $2,000.00 royal that he hit at the Freemont
would
> have purchased either BDPW or FVP. I'll pass on the question.
> Nudge
>
*****
What bothers me is vpFREE provides so many resources to answer these kinds
of
questions, even without coughing up for the great software out there. Is
it
a lack of knowledge that these resources exist and are just a few clicks
away,
or is it a lack of effort to explore, bookmark and utilize these
resources?

The answer to the specific DDB (and now TDB) strategy questions can be
found
walking this way: vpFREE Home Page>(scroll down past the royal picture)
VP
>VPSM Strategies.

Under VPSM Strategies are eleven different genres of VP, which leads to
25+
strategies for playable VP. TomSki has given permission to post his
non-penalty card strategies, thanks again.

Now if there are questions about interpreting the strategy or jargon fine,
ask away.

That is my two cents.

BS

On 4/13/06, staninnv <arnot@cox.net> wrote:

=========================
DDB Keep only the three aces.
TDB Keep Aces with one kicker.

DDB Keep only the three 2 - 4's
TDB Keep one kicker with three 2-4's.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#3

GRAYTLEEGRAY wrote:

What bothers me is vpFREE provides so many resources to answer these
kinds of questions, even without coughing up for the great software
out there. Is it a lack of knowledge that these resources exist and
are just a few clicks away, or is it a lack of effort to explore,
bookmark and utilize these resources?

When I respond to a question I presume that the poster has availed
themselves of any related information that they readily grasp where to
look for it. It bears remembering that, even within the universe of
this website, the wealth of available info is almost a little
overwhelming and difficult to get your hands around at first.

I always augment the information I provide with a referral to my
source (and, for that matter, indicate how to perform any calculations
I used to arrive at my response).

If I'm in my right mind (not always to be presumed) and believe that
someone is simply looking for someone else to do footwork that they
could easily do themselves, I just don't respond.

- H.

#4

Curtis Rich wrote:

···

Hey, BS. Thanks! Per your suggestion, I visited the
strategy page for DDB (located at
http://members.cox.net/vpfree/ST_DDB.htm#10/6).

Thanks to your recommendation, I also decided to
check out the strategy for TDB (located at
http://members.cox.net/vpfree/ST_TDB.htm).
The TDB strategy on this page appears to be different
than the strategy posted by staninnv, who said,
"....Keep one kicker with three 2-4's" (see post below).
The TDB strategy on this page does not mention ever
holding kickers with 2-4's.

So, now my question is:
Which strategy is correct for holding three small cards
(2-4)? Do I hold the kicker or not? And, what is the
difference mathematically? Maybe, the difference
between the two plays is negligible and it doesn't
really matter very much?

I appreciate any responses. Thank you very much.

=======================================================
Curtis,
On the strategy chart for TDB, holding three 2-4's has an EV of
8.7132. If you hold the kicker, there are 3 ways (matching the
kicker) to end up with a full house, 1 way to end up with four of a
kind plus kicker, and 43 ways to end up with just three of a kind.
So if the FH pays 9, 4OAK/k pays 400, and 3OAK pays 2, we get
(3/47)(9) + (1/47)(400) + (43/47)(2) = 10.9149.
So Staninnv seems to have the correct advice and maybe the strategy
chart is just missing a line. Anybody see an error?
Jeff

#5

Holding the kicker is correct by a large margin. EV is about 55 w/kicker and 45 w/o.
Skip

jeffcole2003oct wrote:

···

Curtis Rich wrote:

So, now my question is:
Which strategy is correct for holding three small cards
(2-4)? Do I hold the kicker or not?

On the strategy chart for TDB, holding three 2-4's has an EV of 8.7132. If you hold the kicker, there are 3 ways (matching the kicker) to end up with a full house, 1 way to end up with four of a kind plus kicker, and 43 ways to end up with just three of a kind. So if the FH pays 9, 4OAK/k pays 400, and 3OAK pays 2, we get (3/47)(9) + (1/47)(400) + (43/47)(2) = 10.9149.
So Staninnv seems to have the correct advice and maybe the strategy chart is just missing a line. Anybody see an error?
Jeff

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--
Thanks!
Skip
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