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Silly variance data: Palms free play

I get the multi-money mailers from Palms at the 8x$40 or 8x$50 level
(depending on their mood, how the Cubs are doing, ...?) and some of
those offers are one-day wonders. For that much money I find a way
to drag my carcass down there even if I'm otherwise occupied.

I almost always do one of two things: if I'm short of time, I play
the $40 through once and then cash out regardless of the result. If
I have an hour or so, I slap in a $100 bill and then play until 1) I
bust out or 2) Reach $200. If the freeplay occurs on a day which
I'll be playing anyway (and this would only be a 3x points day),
then I just meld the freeplay into my initial buyin and play away,
usually $1 DB, DDB, or NSUD for several hours; on those days I
average about $22,000 coin-in. I will only play these breakeven (or
less) games when the comp rate of .75 (with the 3x pts) justifies
the play. Even so, the swings are pretty healthy.

Since the only time I play quarters nowadays is when I'm processing
free play, I thought I'd stop and take a look at this year so far.

Machines: FPDW, FPJW (.25)
Coin-in: approx. $2000 in freeplay plus 3 hrs/mo @ 800 hands/hr x 7
months
Total coin-in: $23,000
Total hands played: 18,200

Net result: +$4,400 (This number treats existing freeplay as "money
in the bank" even though it really isn't until it's run through the
machine once.)
FIVE sets of deuces on FPDW (and only about 1/3 of the play was on
FPDW)
THREE five of a kinds on FPJW
THREE royals (one on FPDW, two on FPDW)
Many winning sessions with lotsa wild royals, straight flushes, etc.

So I'm up 19% on a play that "should" return about .7%. What does
this prove? Absolutely nothing; the sample size is too small. I must
be about four standard deviations to the right, though.

Corollary: Somewhere out there, there's someone who gets THRASHED
every time he tries to play off his free play, and is convinced that
the machine goes into "death mode" when he inputs the freeplay into
it.

It just goes to show you that in the absurdly small sample size that
is our lives, we can't expect ANYTHING to come out as it "should". A
large percentage of the players on this board who are knowledgeable
and play perfectly will nonetheless be lifetime losers. Conversely,
Grandma Crusty over there, who throws away the 3's from QQ33x and
holds all A10's, is ahead fifty grand lifetime and wins all the
drawings. Or to put it another way, when my niece says, "No fair!" I
just nod and say, "Exactly!"

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rockofjello333" <rockofjello333@y...>
wrote:

A large percentage of the players on this board who are

knowledgeable

and play perfectly will nonetheless be lifetime losers.

I disagree. If you are truly "knowledgeable" your odds of having a
losing year should be under 10%.

case in point:
full pay deuces wild plus 0.25% cashback:
N0=Variance/(ER+cashback-1)^2 hands
=25.83461818/(1.007619624+.0025-1)^2=252,274 hands
after 252,274 hands your odds of being a winner are 84%
after 4 x 252,274=1,009,096 hands your odds of being a winner are 98%
1,000 hours/yr x 1,000 hands/hour = 1,000,000 hands/year
that's a 2% chance your first year will be a loser

Is my arithmetic correct? I'm doing a bit of rounding here. :slight_smile:

There are a little less than 9,000 hours in a year. If you play 1,000 hours of
VP a year, you are spending like 1/10 of your entire life playing VP. That is
like playing 2.4 hours every single day of the year, and that is playing 1,000
hands per hour!

OUCH!

Does anyone do that? Does anyone WANT to do that?

.....bl

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000" <
nightoftheiguana2000@y...> wrote:

···

I disagree. If you are truly "knowledgeable" your odds of having a
losing year should be under 10%.

case in point:
full pay deuces wild plus 0.25% cashback:
N0=Variance/(ER+cashback-1)^2 hands
=25.83461818/(1.007619624+.0025-1)^2=252,274 hands
after 252,274 hands your odds of being a winner are 84%
after 4 x 252,274=1,009,096 hands your odds of being a winner are 98%
1,000 hours/yr x 1,000 hands/hour = 1,000,000 hands/year
that's a 2% chance your first year will be a loser

well, "pros" of course put in over 2,000hrs/yr
in Paymar's VP Optimum Play "Doug the Destroyer" recommends at least
3,000 hrs/yr (which is the reason he is known as the Destroyer)
personally i feel 1,000hrs/yr is more than reasonable, it's a nice
hobby
you need around that level of play to grind out the variance
(you might luck out and find some very lucrative promotions, use the
N0 formula to find out where you stand for any given play's ER and
Variance)

wrote:

Is my arithmetic correct? I'm doing a bit of rounding here. :slight_smile:

There are a little less than 9,000 hours in a year. If you play

1,000 hours of

VP a year, you are spending like 1/10 of your entire life playing

VP. That is

like playing 2.4 hours every single day of the year, and that is

playing 1,000

hands per hour!

OUCH!

Does anyone do that? Does anyone WANT to do that?

.....bl

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000" <
nightoftheiguana2000@y...> wrote:
> I disagree. If you are truly "knowledgeable" your odds of having a
> losing year should be under 10%.
>
> case in point:
> full pay deuces wild plus 0.25% cashback:
> N0=Variance/(ER+cashback-1)^2 hands
> =25.83461818/(1.007619624+.0025-1)^2=252,274 hands
> after 252,274 hands your odds of being a winner are 84%
> after 4 x 252,274=1,009,096 hands your odds of being a winner are

98%

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bornloser1537" <bornloser1537@y...>

> 1,000 hours/yr x 1,000 hands/hour = 1,000,000 hands/year
> that's a 2% chance your first year will be a loser

by the way, even if you play just 250 hrs/yr it's not a disaster, each
year has 84% odds of being positive and any four year period has 98%
odds of being positive and any nine year period has 99.9% odds of
being positive. play 125hrs/yr, you guessed it, any 2 year has 84%
odds, any 8 year has 98% odds and any 18 year has 99.9% odds. in other
words, not very likely of being a lifetime loser.

but you have to check N0 for each game, not all games are as friendly
as full pay deuces wild, some are friendlier:
all american quad 250:
er=1.029738195,var=28.78049949,N0=var/(er-1)^2=32,544 hands
some are less friendly:
10/6 double double bonus:
er=1.00067,var=42.17654,N0=93,955,313 hands!

for negative games (er<1) the results are inverted, i.e. at N0 hands
you have 84% odds of being a loser, etc.
6/5 jacks or better:
er=.949961,var=19.04472,N0=7,606 hands
9/6 double double bonus:
er=.989808,var=41.98498,N0=404,180 hands

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000"
<nightoftheiguana2000@y...> wrote:

well, "pros" of course put in over 2,000hrs/yr
in Paymar's VP Optimum Play "Doug the Destroyer" recommends at least
3,000 hrs/yr (which is the reason he is known as the Destroyer)
personally i feel 1,000hrs/yr is more than reasonable, it's a nice
hobby
you need around that level of play to grind out the variance
(you might luck out and find some very lucrative promotions, use the
N0 formula to find out where you stand for any given play's ER and
Variance)

wrote:
> Is my arithmetic correct? I'm doing a bit of rounding here. :slight_smile:
>
> There are a little less than 9,000 hours in a year. If you play
1,000 hours of
> VP a year, you are spending like 1/10 of your entire life playing
VP. That is
> like playing 2.4 hours every single day of the year, and that is
playing 1,000
> hands per hour!
>
> OUCH!
>
> Does anyone do that? Does anyone WANT to do that?
>
> .....bl
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000" <
> nightoftheiguana2000@y...> wrote:
> > I disagree. If you are truly "knowledgeable" your odds of

having a

> > losing year should be under 10%.
> >
> > case in point:
> > full pay deuces wild plus 0.25% cashback:
> > N0=Variance/(ER+cashback-1)^2 hands
> > =25.83461818/(1.007619624+.0025-1)^2=252,274 hands
> > after 252,274 hands your odds of being a winner are 84%
> > after 4 x 252,274=1,009,096 hands your odds of being a winner

are

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bornloser1537" <bornloser1537@y...>
98%
> > 1,000 hours/yr x 1,000 hands/hour = 1,000,000 hands/year
> > that's a 2% chance your first year will be a loser

I know many LV locals who will answer yes to both of
your questions (including SWMBO and moi).

vpFREE Administrator

···

On 16 Aug 2004 at 19:44, bornloser1537 wrote:

There are a little less than 9,000 hours in a year. If you play 1,000 hours
of VP a year, you are spending like 1/10 of your entire life playing VP. That
is like playing 2.4 hours every single day of the year, and that is playing
1,000 hands per hour!

OUCH! Does anyone do that? Does anyone WANT to do that?

I know many LV locals who will answer yes to both of
your questions (including SWMBO and moi).

vpFREE Administrator

IMHO-----------Yikes!!!

Scot

···

-----Original Message-----
From: vpFREE [mailto:vpF…@…net]
Sent: Tuesday, August 17, 2004 5:54 PM
To: vpFREE@Yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Silly variance data: Palms free play