vpFREE2 Forums

Should it bother me?

I really hate these threads also. As someone who has worked as a paper boy and then as a taxi driver and waiter in college, (positions that depended on tips to pay a reasonable wage) I'm always amazed how someone won't think twice about throwing a benji into a VP machine and bitches about tipping the waitress or anyone else that deserves a tip at the Casino.
My opinion is that if you can't afford to tip, you shouldn't be in the Casino gambling.
There are tons of people looking for tips in the Casino's and I agree with not tipping for poor service. However, there seems to be a number of people on this board that not only look to maximize their VP return but take advantage of casino resources that provide them a service and depend on tips by saying it's not my problem and stiffing them.
If you can't afford to tip, don't make the trip.
Joel

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-------------- Original message --------------
I really hate these tipping threads. Same stuff over and over.
Certain people try to show they are better because they tip more.
HOGWASH.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I don't bitch about tipping cocktail waitresses. I gladly tip them (if they
get my order right....and within a reasonable amount of time).
  I don't bitch about tipping the other casino personnel. I just don't tip
them (and I'm not intimidated by them). Unless, of course, they did
something out of the ordinary to assist me (help me find the machine I'm
looking for, hold my machine while I use the restroom, etc.). Handing me a
hand-pay is not worthy of a tip. Cashing my pay-out voucher is not worthy of
a tip.
My opinion is that if the casino workers need my tip so badly, they
shouldn't be in the Casino begging for it. If they are that desperate, they
should get a job that doesn't heavily depended on my tips to earn a
'reasonable' wage.

···

On 11/4/05, joel0457@comcast.net <joel0457@comcast.net> wrote:

I really hate these threads also. As someone who has worked as a paper boy
and then as a taxi driver and waiter in college, (positions that depended on
tips to pay a reasonable wage) I'm always amazed how someone won't think
twice about throwing a benji into a VP machine and bitches about tipping the
waitress or anyone else that deserves a tip at the Casino.
My opinion is that if you can't afford to tip, you shouldn't be in the
Casino gambling.
There are tons of people looking for tips in the Casino's and I agree with
not tipping for poor service. However, there seems to be a number of people
on this board that not only look to maximize their VP return but take
advantage of casino resources that provide them a service and depend on tips
by saying it's not my problem and stiffing them.
If you can't afford to tip, don't make the trip.
Joel

-------------- Original message --------------
I really hate these tipping threads. Same stuff over and over.
Certain people try to show they are better because they tip more.
HOGWASH.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The operative words in Joel's post are "in my opinion".

And, I agreee completely. You do it because you feel comfortable with it. You
do not do it because someone else says that you "should" do it.

In my opinion (note the qualifier here), tips, in many instances, are now given
because of "guilt trips" placed upon us by various interest groups. Tips no
longer reflect an extra payment for better than average service.

bl

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, joel0457@c... wrote:

My opinion is that if you can't afford to tip, you shouldn't be in the Casino
gambling.
If you can't afford to tip, don't make the trip.
Joel

> My opinion is that if you can't afford to tip, you shouldn't be in

the Casino

> gambling.
> If you can't afford to tip, don't make the trip.
> Joel

Someone who throws $100 bills into a machine certainly can *afford* to
tip -- that's not the issue. The issue is whether or not a tip is
warranted. If I win $1000, and the casino sets up in such a way that
someone has to pay me, that's not a *service*. If anything, it's an
annoyance, especially now that TITO is prevalent. Do you normally tip
when you're annoyed?

Dave

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, joel0457@c... wrote:

<<<The issue is whether or not a tip is

warranted. If I win $1000, and the casino sets up in such a way

that

someone has to pay me, that's not a *service*. If anything, it's an
annoyance, especially now that TITO is prevalent. >>>>

As a dollar and up video poker player, an annoying trend I have
noticed is that slot attendents now seem to expect higher
denomination players to support them. With the expansion of TITO,
lower denomination players have no need for slot attendents'
services. No hopper fills and even a $1000 royal payout frequently
does not necessitate a handpay. On the other hand a $5 player may
require a handpay and W-2G on all quad hands and above. These days a
$5 player is lucky to have a 0.2% advantage. Try taking a few coins
off every quad on Winpoker and see where your advantage goes. It
seems to me like the fleas out there with their advantages
approaching 1% playing quarters should be helping the cause by
chasing down the slot attendents and stuffing totes in their
pockets! :slight_smile:

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <wolverines72@y...> wrote:

Maybe the term flea might better describe a slot attendent?

Jeep

.
.--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vegasvpplayer" <vegasvpplayer@j...>
wrote:

As a dollar and up video poker player, an annoying trend I have
noticed is that slot attendents now seem to expect higher
denomination players to support them. With the expansion of TITO,
lower denomination players have no need for slot attendents'
services. No hopper fills and even a $1000 royal payout frequently
does not necessitate a handpay. On the other hand a $5 player may
require a handpay and W-2G on all quad hands and above. These days

a

$5 player is lucky to have a 0.2% advantage. Try taking a few

coins

···

off every quad on Winpoker and see where your advantage goes. It
seems to me like the fleas out there with their advantages
approaching 1% playing quarters should be helping the cause by
chasing down the slot attendents and stuffing totes in their
pockets! :slight_smile:

Here's what I don't understand about this... If there are two players, one of whom plays $5 and has a 0.2% advantage and the other plays $0.25 and has a 1% advantage, the $5 player is still doing much, much better.

I did some math (and assumed that both players wanted to play $10,000 in action and both play at the rate of 800 hands/hour):

Action desired$10,000.00$10,000.00Denomination$5.00$0.25Bet per hand$25.00$1.25Hands per hour800800Hands for action4008000Hours needed0.510Advantage0.2%1.0%Advantage ($$)$20$100Hourly rate$40$10

Given that the $5 player is making $40/hour and the quarter player is making $10/hour, why should the quarter player, "be helping the cause by chasing down the slot attendents and stuffing totes in their pockets"

Lainie

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vegasvpplayer" <vegasvpplayer@j...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" wolverines72@y... wrote:

<<<The issue is whether or not a tip is
> warranted. If I win $1000, and the casino sets up in such a way
that
> someone has to pay me, that's not a *service*. If anything, it's an
> annoyance, especially now that TITO is prevalent. >>>>

As a dollar and up video poker player, an annoying trend I have
noticed is that slot attendents now seem to expect higher
denomination players to support them. With the expansion of TITO,
lower denomination players have no need for slot attendents'
services. No hopper fills and even a $1000 royal payout frequently
does not necessitate a handpay. On the other hand a $5 player may
require a handpay and W-2G on all quad hands and above. These days a
$5 player is lucky to have a 0.2% advantage. Try taking a few coins
off every quad on Winpoker and see where your advantage goes. It
seems to me like the fleas out there with their advantages
approaching 1% playing quarters should be helping the cause by
chasing down the slot attendents and stuffing totes in their
pockets! :slight_smile:

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sorry about the formatting -- my nice chart got mangled, but you can
get my point without it... Lainie

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "lainiewolf702" <lainiewolf702@y...>
wrote:

Here's what I don't understand about this... If there are two

players, one of whom plays $5 and has a 0.2% advantage and the other
plays $0.25 and has a 1% advantage, the $5 player is still doing
much, much better.

I did some math (and assumed that both players wanted to play

$10,000 in action and both play at the rate of 800 hands/hour):

Action desired$10,000.00$10,000.00Denomination$5.00$0.25Bet per

hand$25.00$1.25Hands per hour800800Hands for action4008000Hours
needed0.510Advantage0.2%1.0%Advantage ($$)$20$100Hourly rate$40$10

Given that the $5 player is making $40/hour and the quarter player

is making $10/hour, why should the quarter player, "be helping the
cause by chasing down the slot attendents and stuffing totes in
their pockets"

Lainie

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vegasvpplayer"

<vegasvpplayer@j...> wrote:

>
>
>
> <<<The issue is whether or not a tip is
> > warranted. If I win $1000, and the casino sets up in such a

way

> that
> > someone has to pay me, that's not a *service*. If anything,

it's an

> > annoyance, especially now that TITO is prevalent. >>>>
>
>
>
> As a dollar and up video poker player, an annoying trend I have
> noticed is that slot attendents now seem to expect higher
> denomination players to support them. With the expansion of

TITO,

> lower denomination players have no need for slot attendents'
> services. No hopper fills and even a $1000 royal payout

frequently

> does not necessitate a handpay. On the other hand a $5 player

may

> require a handpay and W-2G on all quad hands and above. These

days a

> $5 player is lucky to have a 0.2% advantage. Try taking a few

coins

···

> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" wolverines72@y... wrote:
> off every quad on Winpoker and see where your advantage goes. It
> seems to me like the fleas out there with their advantages
> approaching 1% playing quarters should be helping the cause by
> chasing down the slot attendents and stuffing totes in their
> pockets! :slight_smile:
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

<<<I did some math (and assumed that both players wanted to play
$10,000 in action and both play at the rate of 800 hands/hour):>>>>

I'm not quite sure why you pick a figure of $10K action. The $5
player would be playing 20 times as much action per hour assuming
equal play speed. It is however unlikely the $5 player will be able
to play this fast if they are hitting any taxable hands and are
permitted to stop for tipping opportunities.

<<<Given that the $5 player is making $40/hour and the quarter player
is making $10/hour, why should the quarter player, "be helping the
cause by chasing down the slot attendants and stuffing totes in their
pockets">>>

My point is that the quarter TITO player will continue to make $10
per hour if they have a 1% advantage and don't have to tip. Now lets
assume the $5 player is playing 10/7 Double Bonus plus 0.03% CB.
Let's say (s)he tips $10 for $1250 hands, $20 for $2000 hands, $40
for $4000 hands and $100 for the $20K royal (which in many siltations
will get eye rolling because it's much less than the attendants will
expect from a high roller). This modest tipping schedule would
reduce the $5 player's return from 100.2% to 100.05%. Now the $5
player is risking 20 times the coin-in and has the same 1.25 cent per
hand advantage as the quarter flea.

···

On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 21:58:09 -0000 "lainiewolf702" <lainiewolf702@yahoo.com> writes:

Couple months ago my tip for 20G royal was $50. The slot person was
very grateful. I been on his property about 6 times since and he treats
me like gold. Gee, if he had a broom he would probably dust my suit, if
I wore one. Here's the part that's hard to believe-----This is in AC.

Cheers....Jeep
.
.
lets

···

In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vegasvpplayer" <vegasvpplayer@j...> wrote:

assume the $5 player is playing 10/7 Double Bonus plus 0.03% CB.
Let's say (s)he tips $10 for $1250 hands, $20 for $2000 hands, $40
for $4000 hands and $100 for the $20K royal (which in many siltations
will get eye rolling because it's much less than the attendants will
expect from a high roller). This modest tipping schedule would
reduce the $5 player's return from 100.2% to 100.05%. Now the $5
player is risking 20 times the coin-in and has the same 1.25 cent per
hand advantage as the quarter flea.

<<> assume the $5 player is playing 10/7 Double Bonus plus 0.03% CB.

Let's say (s)he tips $10 for $1250 hands, $20 for $2000 hands, $40
for $4000 hands and $100 for the $20K royal (which in many situations
will get eye rolling because it's much less than the attendants will
expect from a high roller).>>

We have tipped less than these amounts ($20 for $4000 and $50 for $20,000) in several Strip casinos and never saw any eye rolling. Some players may tip higher and the attendants can always hope for more, but they usually act grateful for whatever they get.

···

________________________________________
Jean $�ott - http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
  for VP software and strategy cards.
  NEW - Blackjack Strategy Cards +
              Updated Second Edition of
             "The Frugal Gambler."

We have tipped less than these amounts ($20 for $4000 and $50 for

$20,000)

in several Strip casinos and never saw any eye rolling. Some

players may

tip higher and the attendants can always hope for more, but they

usually act

grateful for whatever they get.
________________________________________

Yep, and the quarter player is getting no service, so why should they
tip at all? Ticket-out and cashed at the self-serve kiosk! The
casino merely needs fewer employees for the lower limit areas(unless
they are giving out tickets for 4OAK). The high limit area employees
shouldn't have any less tips.

Loving my $2 2-liter: no service -> no tips -> no guilt. Just ignore
my flask that I am adding to the 2-liter. Oh wait talking about Vegas
instead of super-dry Kansas. Never mind.

dipy911

Jean Scott wrote:

We have tipped less than these amounts ($20 for $4000 and $50 for
$20,000) in several Strip casinos and never saw any eye rolling.
Some players may tip higher and the attendants can always hope for
more, but they usually act grateful for whatever they get.

I typically tip about 1% of the hit; 1.5% in the casino that I've
frequented longest and the most and where I'm pretty much known on a
first name basis by many of the floor staff (lending it a sort of
"Cheer's" flavor).

I'm definitely a casual, recreational player. I certainly grasp why
those who play VERY actively would tip much more conservatively,
particularly at higher denominations. The bucks really start to add
up and only a fool would toss $100's out with frequency. It's not
even a matter of being frugal.

I'm predominantly a $.50/$1 player, with less than a handful of $2
hits. There's one of those latter occasions (in AC) that sticks in my
craw. I handed over $80 to the attendent (who appeared a senior
member of the floor staff) and $20 to the security guard. The
attendent pocketed the cash with no acknowledgement, just a rather
sour look on his face, and walked away. I resisted the urge to chase
after him and demand a refund.

The most refreshing tipping experience was at an AC casino that,
admittedly, tends to attract lesser heeled clients. I nailed a $1
royal. There was a fair delay in being paid. Eventually, two people
showed up with the money and reset the machine ... clearly running a
circuit through a short staffed floor with several machines to go. I
was paid in all hundreds.

Now that's cause for chagrin since it's suggests the expectation of a
very generous tip. But I pocketed the cash and looked down to dig for
a couple of twenties in my jeans. I secured the bills and looked up
only to see them hustling away to their next handpay. I was stunned.

I chased after them (leaving a couple hundred dollars on my machine
meter). The gleam in their eye when I caught up with them and handed
them the cash made it clear that they truly had expected no tip at
all. That was a first! ... and it left me with the deepest regard for
the casino ever since.

···

------

A comment on this thread. Ultimately, tipping the attendents after a
handpay is no different in nature than tipping any other service
employee. You're tipping not only for the handpay but all other
services from which you benefit during play, be it routine machine
servicing, a machine shutdown, the favor of watching your machine
while you take a restroom break, or any other service.

What someone tips should be a matter of their own conscience and not a
matter of obligation ... no matter what the recipient might seem to
expect. And, if you're acting in good conscience, there's no cause
whatsoever to be concerned for their expectations.

It's simply a matter where you should be cognizant that it's expected
that a portion of the employees compensation will be in the form of
tipping for service -- and that you should regard tipping as being in
lieu of a higher product cost or lower quality (whether in the form of
an actual higher price, lower quality service, or poorer paytables).

Don't regard it as unreasonable. Just tip according to what you find
reasonable in that frame of reference ... and by no means tip simply
out of obligation.

- Harry

- Harry

I agree with just about all that has been said here, save for the fact that tipping
the floor personnel, or whomever, may provide for better paytables.

It is a nice thought but, alas, IMHO, a dream.

.....bl

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@v...> wrote:

you should regard tipping as being in
lieu of a higher product cost or lower quality (whether in the form of
an actual higher price, lower quality service, or poorer paytables).

- Harry

Yep, and the quarter player is getting no service, so why should

they

tip at all? Ticket-out and cashed at the self-serve kiosk! The
casino merely needs fewer employees for the lower limit areas>>>

Great point dipy! In fact, I think I can now extrapolate one step
further and point out that if it were not for W-2G jackpots by higher
denomination players, there would no longer be a need for slot
attendants. It now appears clear to me that these employees would no
longer have jobs with employee benefits without jackpots like mine
since the fleas no longer require their service. It seems like I am
providing them with more than enough generosity without having to
provide additional funding in the form of tokes. In fact if I hit a
W-2G jackpot at a real dump like El Cortez or an especially large
jackpot which requires additional labor like a RNG-chip seal check, I
think I will now ask the employees to take up an additional
collection for me to show their thanks for my generosity in playing
at their casino.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "dipy911" <dipy911@y...> wrote:

bornloser1537 wrote

I agree with just about all that has been said here, save for the fact
that tipping the floor personnel, or whomever, may provide for better
paytables.

It is a nice thought but, alas, IMHO, a dream.

I'll handily grant you that. Dreamer that I am, I've always grossly
overestimated the economic influence of the competitive element in the
business (benefits of passing on cost savings). Even darker days lie
before us :frowning:

- H.