Is there a strategy for playing short pay machines if that is all
that is available where you are at ? I know walk away is the best
thing to do.
Thanks
Short Pay machines
starcast82 wrote:
Is there a strategy for playing short pay machines if that is all
that is available where you are at ? I know walk away is the best
thing to do.
The assumption here is that you're playing purely recreationally.
There's nothing wrong in that so long as you're aware of the theo cost
and that it's reasonably balanced by the pleasure from the game.
Of course, optimal strategy is still called for to minimize that cost.
And, in this case, playing short coin isn't a bad idea. What you give
up in the ER from the shorted royal will be compensated for by the
reduced loss expectation when you play just one or two coins.
If, on the other hand, you can't bring yourself to skip the
"excitement" of full coin play, a policy of "just say no" and heading
out to the nearest movie theater might not be such a bad idea.
- Harry
Just recreational right now. I've been practicing at least an hour a
day on different programs. Just need to slow down and quit missing
pairs. I've also noticed that most of the strategy stays the same,
just go for the best odds hand.
Thanks
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@v...>
wrote:
starcast82 wrote:
> Is there a strategy for playing short pay machines if that is all
> that is available where you are at ? I know walk away is the best
> thing to do.The assumption here is that you're playing purely recreationally.
There's nothing wrong in that so long as you're aware of the theo
cost
and that it's reasonably balanced by the pleasure from the game.
Of course, optimal strategy is still called for to minimize that
cost.
And, in this case, playing short coin isn't a bad idea. What you
give
up in the ER from the shorted royal will be compensated for by the
reduced loss expectation when you play just one or two coins.If, on the other hand, you can't bring yourself to skip the
"excitement" of full coin play, a policy of "just say no" and
heading
···
out to the nearest movie theater might not be such a bad idea.
- Harry
Is any VP machine that's less than FullPay considered "shortpay"?
In other words, is 8/5 JoB short pay?
And, if so, is less-than-full-coin the best strategy/practice with
8/5 JoB?
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@v...>
wrote:
starcast82 wrote:
> Is there a strategy for playing short pay machines if that is all
> that is available where you are at ? I know walk away is the best
> thing to do.The assumption here is that you're playing purely recreationally.
There's nothing wrong in that so long as you're aware of the theo
cost
and that it's reasonably balanced by the pleasure from the game.
Of course, optimal strategy is still called for to minimize that
cost.
And, in this case, playing short coin isn't a bad idea. What you
give
up in the ER from the shorted royal will be compensated for by the
reduced loss expectation when you play just one or two coins.If, on the other hand, you can't bring yourself to skip the
"excitement" of full coin play, a policy of "just say no" and
heading
···
out to the nearest movie theater might not be such a bad idea.
- Harry
starcast82 wrote:
> Is there a strategy for playing short pay machines if that is all
> that is available where you are at ? I know walk away is the best
> thing to do.
"Harry Porter" replied:
The assumption here is that you're playing purely recreationally.
There's nothing wrong in that so long as you're aware of the theo
cost and that it's reasonably balanced by the pleasure from the game.
Of course, optimal strategy is still called for to minimize that
cost. And, in this case, playing short coin isn't a bad idea.
What you give up in the ER from the shorted royal will be compensated
for by the reduced loss expectation when you play just one or two
coins.
If, on the other hand, you can't bring yourself to skip the
"excitement" of full coin play, a policy of "just say no" and
heading out to the nearest movie theater might not be such a bad
idea.
Jeff then asked:
Is any VP machine that's less than FullPay considered "shortpay"?
In other words, is 8/5 JoB short pay?
Yes to both questions, but this is a semantics situation, and it's
often a judgement call as to what pay schedule actually is full pay.
IMO you're better off referring to pay schedules as positive or
negative, and more importantly, evaluating situations (machine's
ER plus casino incentives) as positive or negative.
And, if so, is less-than-full-coin the best strategy/practice
with 8/5 JoB?
Harry answered this in the post you replied to, from the
perspective of playing a negative situation.
If you're playing a negative machine, but casino incentives
make it a positive situation, then playing full coin is the
approved solution.
vpFREE Administrator
vp_FREE wrote:
IMO you're better off referring to pay schedules as positive or
negative, and more importantly, evaluating situations (machine's
ER plus casino incentives) as positive or negative.If you're playing a negative machine, but casino incentives
make it a positive situation, then playing full coin is the
approved solution.vpFREE Administrator
This is an excellent augmentation to my reply. For example, 9/7 DB
with a ER of 99.1% (vs. "full pay" 10/7 DB's 100.17%) can start
becoming an acceptable play when combined with .5% cb and a promo that
adds at least another .5%.
In the case of 9/6 JB with a 99.54% ER (considered "full pay" since
this is generally the best JB pay schedule to be found), it's
typically considered a reasonably strong play with cashback and comp
benefits (and, when it comes to the Strip, is what I consider to be an
excellent "vacation" play).
However for 8/5 JB its 97.3% ER makes it very unlikely that even under
the best of circumstances you'll get anywhere near a positive play.
And between royals you're looking at an expected drain of $30+/hr. on
$.25 full coin play - a very expensive recreation.
- Harry
This is an excellent augmentation to my reply. For example, 9/7 DB
with a ER of 99.1% (vs. "full pay" 10/7 DB's 100.17%) can start
becoming an acceptable play when combined with .5% cb and a promo
that
···
adds at least another .5%.
- Harry
----------------------
Just wondering if you really meant .5%, which is equivalent to .50%,
or .05% ?
The last time I saw those cb figures (from one of S. Krause's columns)
I thought the highes cb I saw was something like .33%.
If there is .50% cb, which casinos? Thanks.
Gilbert
I imagine Harry meant what he said -- .5% (half of a percent). If any place actually had cb at the pathetically low rate of .05% (twentieth of one percent), it would be very hard for it to compete with other casinos and would probably be considered a laugh among knowledgeable players. I think that you might need to attain one of the higher-level slot-club cards to qualify for the .5% instead of the more common .33% at most casinos.
Bill Velek
gilbert_616 wrote:
>
> This is an excellent augmentation to my reply. For example, 9/7 DB
> with a ER of 99.1% (vs. "full pay" 10/7 DB's 100.17%) can start
> becoming an acceptable play when combined with .5% cb and a promo
that
> adds at least another .5%.
> - Harry
----------------------Just wondering if you really meant .5%, which is equivalent to .50%,
or .05% ?The last time I saw those cb figures (from one of S. Krause's columns)
I thought the highes cb I saw was something like .33%.
snip
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "gilbert_616" <gilbert_616@y...>
wrote:
Just wondering if you really meant .5%, which is equivalent
to .50%,
or .05% ?
The last time I saw those cb figures (from one of S. Krause's
columns)
I thought the highes cb I saw was something like .33%.
If there is .50% cb, which casinos? Thanks.
The regular cb rate is .5 at both Four Queens and Imperial Palace.
At Casino Royale, twice each day during their 3X cb hours, their .75
cb rate is the highest you can find everyday in LV right now.
Pete
I imagine Harry meant what he said -- .5% (half of a percent). If
any
place actually had cb at the pathetically low rate of .05%
(twentieth of
one percent), it would be very hard for it to compete with other
casinos
and would probably be considered a laugh among knowledgeable
players. I
think that you might need to attain one of the higher-level slot-
club
cards to qualify for the .5% instead of the more common .33% at
most
casinos.
Bill Velek
gilbert_616 wrote:
>
> >
> > This is an excellent augmentation to my reply. For example,
9/7 DB
> > with a ER of 99.1% (vs. "full pay" 10/7 DB's 100.17%) can start
> > becoming an acceptable play when combined with .5% cb and a
promo
> that
> > adds at least another .5%.
> > - Harry
> ----------------------
>
> Just wondering if you really meant .5%, which is equivalent
to .50%,
> or .05% ?
>
> The last time I saw those cb figures (from one of S. Krause's
columns)
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Velek <billvelek@a...> wrote:
> I thought the highes cb I saw was something like .33%.
******
The range available for cashback vary wildly. That is why you need
to be an informed consumer. Both .5 % and .05 % are within the
bounds.
In Vegas the Four Queens has a base .5%. Railroad Pass used
(currently?) to do double point Wednesdays and triple point Thursdays
to the base rate of .25%.
Down in Lauglin I do double point coupons that give me .57% rate at
the Golden Nugget.
The Edgewater recently did a promo that added 1% to the base .25%.
Now walk across the street to the Ramada Express (Aztar). They have
a regressive system based on game type/denomination. Play VP in
quarters and you get .067%. Play VP in $5/10 and you get the record
setting .02%. Yep, $5000 coin-in earns $1 in cashback.
BS
bluestreak86001 wrote:
snip
Now walk across the street to the Ramada Express (Aztar). They have
a regressive system based on game type/denomination. Play VP in
quarters and you get .067%. Play VP in $5/10 and you get the record
setting .02%. Yep, $5000 coin-in earns $1 in cashback.
Amazing. Unless they have some pretty decent postive machines or exceptional comps, why would any knowledgable player go there?
Bill Velek