vpFREE2 Forums

Seeing the forest from the trees

#1

I see the posts here about Harrah's ending multipliers and wonder why
anyone still goes there. The casinos Harrah's included are cutting and
slashing for years now - paytables, comps, cashback and other perks etc
- Harrah's is among the worst. Instead of trying to figure out where the
best play is and there are few of them - it is time we all boycott the
casinos and get our friends to do the same. Some casinos are more
vulnerable than others - the ones like the Venetian that have a big
convention businss cannot be hurt by the loss of gamblers, they do not
need us - local casinos whether it be Station or Coast in Vegas or a
riverboat casino anywhere can be destroyed by a player boycott - the
time has come to tell them no more.

Maybe for some of you it will take the elimination of the Optimum
machines even though the comps have already been cut on them, that is
coming. Maybe you will all need to wait for the best game to be 7/5
Bonus Poker and 9/5 Double Double, Coast is almost there - they are a
downgrade away. Maybe Station needs to stop their mailers altogether,
rather than just cut them. They have already done that for table players
- no more free bet coupons for 98% of players and the other 2% are
getting a fraction of what they used to. How bad does it need to get?

MGM MIRAGE goes from cashback to free play and then from .33 to .22 to
match Wynn. At least Wynn used to have good VP and Wynn is cutting that
fast for everything but the highest of demoms. I remember when Mirage
under Wynn was .66 for video poker and it was cash and you didn't need
to be a high roller to get 9/6 Jacks.

Instead of all the posts that play around the edges, that you found this
machine or that machine until they remove it - like M - the good
machines didn't last long - and I think M has one of the best comp
programs in Vegas - it is time to tell the casinos no more -
particulalry the ones like Station that are cutting everything in sight
from from XPC to multipliers to downgrading Quick Quads

I applaud the Palms because their recent slot club changes offer more
than before and it is rare for any casino to do more - so maybe shift
some business there - but all in all it is time to stay home and get
your neighbors to stay home - make them feel the pain of an empty
casino. Stop running down to casinos for a chance of the unknown - the
random swipe, the scratch cards - the are getting you to jump through
hoops like trained animals - no more 1 in a million lottery chances,
demand real everyday value - better paytables and more free slot play
and more comps and let the free slot play be valid for more than a day
or two. If you drive down to a casino for a mystery gift, you are a
moron - if you drive to one to get another $2 product made in a Chinese
sweatshop you are both dumb and lack a sense of morality. It is time to
say no more - make the casinos play your game, do not play theirs.

#2

AMEN!!!!!

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "caplatinum" <belairgold@...> wrote:

Stop running down to casinos for a chance of the unknown - the
random swipe, the scratch cards - the are getting you to jump through
hoops like trained animals - no more 1 in a million lottery chances,
demand real everyday value - better paytables and more free slot play
and more comps and let the free slot play be valid for more than a day
or two. If you drive down to a casino for a mystery gift, you are a
moron - if you drive to one to get another $2 product made in a Chinese
sweatshop you are both dumb and lack a sense of morality. It is time to
say no more - make the casinos play your game, do not play theirs.

#3

> Stop running down to casinos for a chance of the unknown - the
> random swipe, the scratch cards - the are getting you to jump through

It is time to

> say no more - make the casinos play your game, do not play theirs.
>
AMEN!!!!!

Here is my counter point........

I can understand that position for those players who have free choice because they live in a town like LV or Reno or elsewhere with multiple choices anytime 24/7. But for those of us that fly in to play --- speaking only for myself,I go where the offers are enticing enough to get me to drop my suitcase a stay a few days.I comb through my offers in the mail usually 3-5 each and every mail day and see which ones are applicable for the days I am able to travel. Then I go to work to try and schedule so that I can use as much free play as possible, never pay for a hotel room, and use offers,coupons or points to pay for my meals.

My hosts are lways accomodating and helpful.I get room upgrades and many show invites + free play. I rarely rent a car, so I haven't been to the station casinos, M, or Aliente. Most of my running around is using the shuttles Harrah has, Orleasns/Gold Coast/Bills etc. or short/cheap cab rides + walking to spots that connect with a shuttle.

Most trips the only (non-gambling) out of pocket expense I have are for tips or the cab to and from the airport. Now that the Venetian/Palazzo offer free airport shuttle service for Gold members,I won't have cab expense.

If I boycott Harrah's (as suggested) I hurt myself. Yes the paytables are downgraded, the Diamond lounges have shorter hours and less food, but I can still get the equivalent of most meals between Venetian's Gold Lounge, Diamond Lounges @ HET, and the using the $5 off coupons from hotel checkins + Reward credits.

I like having the lines pass for restaurants everytime I stay at one of the MGM properties or the line pass as a Diamond member. I hate lines especially when on time restricted vacations which is my situation now.

It enhances my vacation knowing that I used free, privileges, coupons,and free play. I do check paytables and go for the best I can find in the circle in which I travel when in Vegas or Reno, or Tunica, or Lake Tahoe. For Vegas, basically biggest expense is airplane ticket.

Now that I am getting free charter offers that will be a great influence in where I go. In the last 3 months there have been totally free charter offers to visit AC, Tunica, Laughlin, Reno, and Lake Tahoe.

While I could never equal what Jean Scott or others have done, it would be itneresting to see just how long I could stay free in Vegas by alternating the offers ----- I bet I could make it at least 3 months. Sometime I hope to have the time to try it, even if I fly home in between for some "Grandma" time or fly my kids out.

IMO only
Diane

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "bdhabm" <bdhabm@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "caplatinum" <belairgold@> wrote:

#4

I agree with everything else this writer has to say. If we had a Post of the Month on this board, I would nominate this letter.

People, vote with your feet and wallets.

This is why I like the M call promotion. It tells me up front what I'm gonna get if I choose to come in. I don't have to come in, swipe my card, and get ticked off when I receive 50,000 tickets to a drawing I can't attend. Can you imagine with this kind of ticket inflation, how many tickets were in the virtual drum at Stations drawings last month?

I know that we all have different goals as far as gambling and comps are concerned. I am sincere when I say that I have a great deal of respect and even fondness for the people who post here. But maybe it is time to ask if the long term losses (which are greater than they have been in the past due to worsening games) are worth the comps (which are far less than they have been in the past) at certain properties.

I met a gentleman last week who says he visits Vegas 5-6 times a year. He told me on average he loses a few thousand bucks each trip, mostly playing on the strip. He got 2 days at Caesars, 3 days at IP (yikes!). I honestly don't know if he got anything else comped, like airfare or food. I pointed out that rooms on the Strip these days are really cheap. I even saw an IP room offer recently for $29. He huffily replied, "Well! I don't pay for rooms!"

Maybe it's time to think about renting a car and staying and playing off the strip, at places that act like they want your business. Granted, no place can beat the strip for wonderful shows, but show tickets can be had in many cases for much less than ever before. This particular comp isn't worth as much as it used to be.

Some casinos off the strip have fabulous restaurants. Even if you can't get a comp, and you probably could, with much less action than a strip casino, the prices at even the nicest places are quite reasonable. But if you really want to eat at a famous chef's place at one of the strip hotels, isn't it more cost effective to simply pay, rather than potentially lose big bucks to get a comp?

Rant over. I totally understand if you disagree with me. Like I said, we all have different goals. And I admit I was envious of my bro-in-law, who got a comped suite at the Palazzo for one night. He showed us the room, and called us the Beverly Hillbilies because we were so impressed. But he lost a couple thou playing blackjack the trip before.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "caplatinum" <belairgold@...> wrote:

Stop running down to casinos for a chance of the unknown - the
random swipe, the scratch cards - the are getting you to jump through
hoops like trained animals - no more 1 in a million lottery chances,
demand real everyday value - better paytables and more free slot play

#5

Diane,

I have been both local and tourist - my points apply to both. I don't know at what level you play at, my guess is below $5 denom from the post. But if you are playing enough for Venetian Gold, there has to be some MGM MIRAGE properties that are better deals than Harrah's. How inferior do the games have to be, before the comps are not worth it, meaning what you give back in payback more than offsets what you are saving in out of pocket costs. Most MGM properties for example have Illinois Deuces which is not an advantage game, but passable for a tourist with desires such as yourself - Harrah's often shorts even these games.

You need to understand the boardroom thinking - they will keep cutting until people like you cry "UNCLE". The lounges with the food, will be closed totally, like Caesars closed their Seven Stars lounge. If you can't even get a comp to a sit down steak dinner, and they have reduced you to snacking in lounges, does that tell you they value you or they look at you at a step above a bag lady going through the garbage looking for leftovers.

I don't know where you live, but more and more people live in driving distance of a casino because of Indian gaming. Part of the Vegas experience or the AC experience to paraphrase some guy named Wynn is to make the $50 player feel like a $5,000 player and the $5,000 player feel like a $50,000 player - the casinos don't do that anymore.

And by the way, unless you are an addict, you don't need to play - you can find other recreational and travel opportunities. They are giving away cruises now and many cruises have casinos, often with bad games, but that does not seem to bother you.

If you keep playing under any circumstances, it is going to get like Britain, you are going to have to pay them an admissions charge just to get in, maybe your gaming fever is so bad you will pay. So how many more things do they need to take away before you say no more, or are you an addict?

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I can understand that position for those players who have free choice because they live in a town like LV or Reno or elsewhere with multiple choices anytime 24/7. But for those of us that fly in to play --- > IMO only
Diane

#6

FORGIVE THE "CAPS" BUT I WANTED TO INTERSPERSE MY RESPONSES WITH YOUR POST AND DIDN'T KNOW HOW ELSE TO DO IT.I AM NOT "YELLING" :slight_smile: OR USING POOR NETIQUETTE.SEE COMMENTS BELOW IN RESPONSE.

Diane,

I have been both local and tourist - my points apply to both. I don't know at what level you play at, my guess is below $5 denom from the post.

MY PER HAND BET IS USUALLY FROM $2,25 TO $5.00

But if you are playing enough for Venetian Gold, there has to be some MGM MIRAGE properties that are better deals than Harrah's.

I REGULARLY GET (AND USE) OFFERS FOR 3 FREE NIGHTS + FOOD + FREE PLAY AT BOTH MIRAGE AND MORE RECENTLY BELLAGIO.

How inferior do the games have to be, before the comps are not worth it, meaning what you give back in payback more than offsets what you are saving in out of pocket costs. Most MGM properties for example have Illinois Deuces which is not an advantage game, but passable for a tourist with desires such as yourself - Harrah's often shorts even these games.

TO SHOW MY IGNORANCE, I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT "ILLINOIS DEUCES" ARE, BUT ALSO YOU HAVE NO REAL IDEA OF WHAT MY "DESIRES" ARE DURING MY TRIPS.

You need to understand the boardroom thinking - they will keep cutting until people like you cry "UNCLE".

I UNDERSTAND "BOARDROOM THINNKING ----- I AM A C-LEVEL EXECUTIVE IN MY PROFESSIONAL WORLD

The lounges with the food, will be closed totally, like Caesars closed their Seven Stars lounge. If you can't even get a comp to a sit down steak dinner, and they have reduced you to snacking in lounges, does that tell you they value you or they look at you at a step above a bag lady going through the garbage looking for leftovers.

I HAVE PLENTY OF STEAKROOM, GOURMET RESTAURANT COMPS OPEN TO ME, + REWARD CREDITS FOR ANYTHING I WANT THAT ISN'T ALREADY COMPED. WHEN TRAVELING ALONE, I AM NOT INTERESTED IN A SOLO FANCY RESTAURANT MEAL. I WOULD JUST AS SOON SNACK OR ORDER ROOM SERVICE (FREE OF COURSE) THAN SIT AT A TABLE FOR ONE.

I don't know where you live, but more and more people live in driving distance of a casino because of Indian gaming.

MY HOME IS IN GREEN BAY AND YES, WE ALSO HAVE A FULL VEGAS STYLE CASINO RUN BY THE ONEIDAS WITHIN 20 MINUTES OF MY HOME. HOWEVER THEIR GAMES HAVE HORRIBLE PAY TABLES AS DO THE GAMES IN MN AND MI FROM MY EXPERIENCE.

Part of the Vegas experience or the AC experience to paraphrase some guy named Wynn is to make the $50 player feel like a $5,000 player and the $5,000 player feel like a $50,000 player - the casinos don't do that anymore.

I AM LOOKING FOR RELAXATION AND TO BE GIVEN ENOUGH RESPECT FOR MY "ACTION" THAT I AM NOT JUST THE BASIC TOURIST. I HAVE BEEN DOING THIS FOR A LONG TIME --- 20 YEARS AS A TOURNAMENT AND LIVE POKER PLAYER AND THEN VP FOR THE PAST 4-5 YEARS. I AM VERY COMFORTABLE IN THE CASINO WORLD AND ITS A REGULAR PART OF MY LIFE.

And by the way, unless you are an addict, you don't need to play - you can find other recreational and travel opportunities. They are giving away cruises now and many cruises have casinos, often with bad games, but that does not seem to bother you.

I AM NOT AN ADDICT, BUT SOMEONE WHO ENJOYS VP, CASINO TRIPS AND I HAVE PLENTY OF DISCRETIONARY INCOME FOR MY HOBBIES WHICH INCLUDE VP AND POKER. IF I CAN FIND 9/6 JOB, 10/7 DB, GET FREE ROOMS AND FREE FOOD, WHAT IS THERE TO BOTHER ME? PLUS YOU HAVE NO WAY (BEYOND MY RECENT POSTS) TO KNOW WHAT BOTHERS ME.

If you keep playing under any circumstances, it is going to get like Britain, you are going to have to pay them an admissions charge just to get in, maybe your gaming fever is so bad you will pay. So how many more things do they need to take away before you say no more, or are you an addict?

I CAN TAKE A TRIP TO HAWAII OR EUROPE AND SPEND CONSIDERABLY MORE MONEY AND COME HOME WITH PLEASANT MEMORIES AND SOME PHOTOS ----- OR I CAN KEEP DOING WHAT I AM DOING, WHICH IS ENJOYABLE TO ME. SO IT WOULD TAKE QUITE A BIT SUCH AS NO MORE FREE ROOMS AT PALAZZO/VENETIAN/BELLAGIO/PALMS/MIRAGE/CAESARS/RIO ETC. TO DRIVE ME AWAY. SO I GUESS IF IT GOT TO THE POINT WHERE I HAD TO PAY FOR THE CALIBRE OF ROOMS I AM ACCUSTOMED TO STAYING........THEN MAYBE I WOULD CHANGE MY HABITS.

LOL........YEARS AGO, WE HAD TO PAY A $5 ADMISSION CHARGE TO BE ABLE TO PLAY POKER AT THE INDIAN RESERVATION I STARTED PLAYING POKER IN -- IT WAS THE ONLY GAME IN TOWN, SO WE DID IT IN ORDER TO PLAY.

Diane

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "caplatinum" <belairgold@...> wrote: