vpFREE2 Forums

Secret Plays

#1

A FANTASTIC play bit the dust around 10:00 AM this morning due to
overutilization. In short, too many people knew of it and were
playing it.

The game was 6/5 bonus or 7/5 bonus with either 100 for a quad or 125

EVERY club flush paid an extra $25
EVERY club Str Fl paid an extra $50
Every club RF paid an extra $100
Any quad with an A,2,3 or 4 kicker in clubs paid an extra $25
Card of the day paid an extra $25.

Do the math. Over 108%.

Scheduled to last the month, got too expensive and was cancelled.

#2

Someone help me out here.

There are several computer programs that can calculate the paybacks
of games such as these. Thus, any casino should be able to
calculate in an instant the payback of any promotion they try.

At the same time, I assume the point of any 'promotion' is to lure
people into the casino. If they never tell anyone that the
promotion exists and NO ONE plays it, what good is it? Ditto, if
only a few people play it.

So, presumably the casinos want people to come and play it and they
know what the payback is. They use 100+% paybacks to lure people in
as a sort of loss leader. Kind of like the supermarket selling
gallosn of milk for $1.99.

But then, the casinos seem to get surprised that people actually
come to play their promotion, and or how much it really costs them
to allow people to play them?

Obviously, this goes on, but it seems rather incomprehensible that
in today's world that any decent sized casino can get caught off
guard by the result of a video poker machine/promotion?!

JMO

Elliot

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Elliott L. Shapiro
<elliotts2345@e...> wrote:

A FANTASTIC play bit the dust around 10:00 AM this morning due to
overutilization. In short, too many people knew of it and were
playing it.

The game was 6/5 bonus or 7/5 bonus with either 100 for a quad or

125

···

EVERY club flush paid an extra $25
EVERY club Str Fl paid an extra $50
Every club RF paid an extra $100
Any quad with an A,2,3 or 4 kicker in clubs paid an extra $25
Card of the day paid an extra $25.

Do the math. Over 108%.

Scheduled to last the month, got too expensive and was cancelled.

#3

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Elliot Frome" <compuflyers@p...>
wrote:

Someone help me out here.

ok, i'll take a shot

There are several computer programs that can calculate the paybacks
of games such as these. Thus, any casino should be able to
calculate in an instant the payback of any promotion they try.

At the same time, I assume the point of any 'promotion' is to lure
people into the casino. If they never tell anyone that the
promotion exists and NO ONE plays it, what good is it? Ditto, if
only a few people play it.

some promotions are intended to promote the existing casino customers
into playing more, rather than draw in more players

some promotions are required cash giveaways, for example from shutting
down a progressive or due to accounting quirks of the casino business

some promotions are fixed, the venetian comes to mind ...

So, presumably the casinos want people to come and play it and they
know what the payback is. They use 100+% paybacks to lure people

in

as a sort of loss leader. Kind of like the supermarket selling
gallosn of milk for $1.99.

But then, the casinos seem to get surprised that people actually
come to play their promotion, and or how much it really costs them
to allow people to play them?

that's right, the promotion doesn't generate more business than it
costs, kind of like if people went to a supermarket and only bought
milk, in that case you would soon see the end of below cost milk

Obviously, this goes on, but it seems rather incomprehensible that
in today's world that any decent sized casino can get caught off
guard by the result of a video poker machine/promotion?!

Hey, it's a tough business. Then again, casinos rarely actually lose
money, know any other legal businesses like that? The only real
challenge in the casino business is to see how much profit you can
actually squeeze out of your customers.

···

JMO

Elliot

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Elliott L. Shapiro
<elliotts2345@e...> wrote:
> A FANTASTIC play bit the dust around 10:00 AM this morning due to
> overutilization. In short, too many people knew of it and were
> playing it.
>
> The game was 6/5 bonus or 7/5 bonus with either 100 for a quad or
125
>
> EVERY club flush paid an extra $25
> EVERY club Str Fl paid an extra $50
> Every club RF paid an extra $100
> Any quad with an A,2,3 or 4 kicker in clubs paid an extra $25
> Card of the day paid an extra $25.
>
> Do the math. Over 108%.
>
> Scheduled to last the month, got too expensive and was cancelled.

#4

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Elliott L. Shapiro <elliotts2345@e...>
wrote:

A FANTASTIC play bit the dust around 10:00 AM this morning due to
overutilization. In short, too many people knew of it and were
playing it.

The game was 6/5 bonus or 7/5 bonus with either 100 for a quad or 125

EVERY club flush paid an extra $25
EVERY club Str Fl paid an extra $50
Every club RF paid an extra $100
Any quad with an A,2,3 or 4 kicker in clubs paid an extra $25
Card of the day paid an extra $25.

Do the math. Over 108%.

Well, duh. 8% is $400/hr or more at dollars. What I don't get it that
the genius who dreamed this one up didn't figure out how much extra
work this would entail for his slot attendant staff. Vultures or not,
this promo was not destined to last long at all.

#5

It lasted for a few months until a few pros hit it hard the last couple of
weeks.

···

-----Original Message-----
From: Elliott L. Shapiro [mailto:elliotts2…@…net]
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 4:47 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com; vpmail2@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Secret Plays

A FANTASTIC play bit the dust around 10:00 AM this morning due to
overutilization. In short, too many people knew of it and were
playing it.

The game was 6/5 bonus or 7/5 bonus with either 100 for a quad or 125

EVERY club flush paid an extra $25
EVERY club Str Fl paid an extra $50
Every club RF paid an extra $100
Any quad with an A,2,3 or 4 kicker in clubs paid an extra $25
Card of the day paid an extra $25.

Do the math. Over 108%.

Scheduled to last the month, got too expensive and was cancelled.

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#6

Obviously, this goes on, but it seems rather incomprehensible that in today's world that any decent sized casino can get caught off guard by the result of a video poker machine/promotion?!

It's always amazed me as well, but it happens. The conventional wisdom is that casinos are run by scheming math gurus, but I find this to be a myth. Most casino employees and management are more of the "people-people" sort that are long on social skills and short on book-smarts. They prosper by strictly adhering to the same rules and odds that have always yielded profits for casinos. When they try to think get creative, they often get into trouble.

John

#7

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Elliott L. Shapiro <elliotts2345@e...>
wrote:

A FANTASTIC play bit the dust around 10:00 AM this morning due to
overutilization. In short, too many people knew of it and were
playing it.

The game was 6/5 bonus or 7/5 bonus with either 100 for a quad or

125

EVERY club flush paid an extra $25
EVERY club Str Fl paid an extra $50
Every club RF paid an extra $100
Any quad with an A,2,3 or 4 kicker in clubs paid an extra $25
Card of the day paid an extra $25.

Do the math. Over 108%.

Scheduled to last the month, got too expensive and was cancelled.

I'd like to try to calculate the 108% myself, as practice, in case I
run across something like this in the future. But I need to know
the denomination. Was this a $1, $2, $5, or ? game. Also, was the
100 coin quad for the 7/5 or the 6/5, and I assume you meant just for
the 5-K hands, with the standard 200 for quad 2,3,4 and 400 for quad
aces? Also, when you say "card of the day" I assume you mean a quad
in that card. Was the "card of the day" bonus in addition to the $25
if there was an A, 2, 3, 4 kicker club?

#8

I played a 7/5 bonus
From memory, this was 97.0147%
3 of those averaged with one of the following

Royal 4400
SF 450 250+200
Flush 115 instead of 15
One card (they happened to be Queens one week and kings the following)
225 instead of 125
2,3,4 unchanged at 200
Aces unchanged at 400
I discovered the club kicker on my final day of play and therefore did
not include it in my calculations.

This came to 138+%
The average was 108% GIVE OR TAKE.
These were quarters but the calculation would be the same regardless
of denomination

···

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 22:34:39 -0000, you wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Elliott L. Shapiro <elliotts2345@e...>
wrote:

A FANTASTIC play bit the dust around 10:00 AM this morning due to
overutilization. In short, too many people knew of it and were
playing it.

The game was 6/5 bonus or 7/5 bonus with either 100 for a quad or

125

EVERY club flush paid an extra $25
EVERY club Str Fl paid an extra $50
Every club RF paid an extra $100
Any quad with an A,2,3 or 4 kicker in clubs paid an extra $25
Card of the day paid an extra $25.

Do the math. Over 108%.

Scheduled to last the month, got too expensive and was cancelled.

I'd like to try to calculate the 108% myself, as practice, in case I
run across something like this in the future. But I need to know
the denomination. Was this a $1, $2, $5, or ? game. Also, was the
100 coin quad for the 7/5 or the 6/5, and I assume you meant just for
the 5-K hands, with the standard 200 for quad 2,3,4 and 400 for quad
aces? Also, when you say "card of the day" I assume you mean a quad
in that card. Was the "card of the day" bonus in addition to the $25
if there was an A, 2, 3, 4 kicker club?

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