vpFREE2 Forums

scratches/envelopes/and other promos -

Some of these casino promos may be hurting rather than helping the casinos.
Today we did the Palms scratch and saw a lot of people getting nothing - this
can't be creating goodwill.

Of 4 people including us
1 - nothing but entry
2 - nothing but entry
3 - 1 free megabucks pull (= $3 if you take $)
4 - 1 free lunch buffet

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Gold Coast's various policies also might be hurting rather than helping.
Previously you got a discretionary food comp for $20,000 played through a
machine in between each time you asked for comps. When you needed $30,000 in
3 months for mailers, I would sometimes play $30,000 in 1 or 2 days (think
about $5 reel slot play and $1/$2 VP on triple plays or single lines). So
would get a comp. Then I might not play there for a month, while my husband
would play the next month or two to ring up his $30,000 (playing quarter
dueces).

After $20,000 on 1 card we could get a comp, then $20,000 on the other's card
and get a comp, and so on.

Now they want $10,000 play per month, so we are making sure each of us has
$10,000 play on each card first. Result is $20,000 in play now split on 2
cards - and woops - no comp. Sure next month we will have another $10,000
and $10,000 and finally get the comp, but in the meanwhile, no Gold Coast
comp.

We are too cheap to actually pay real money. The result was that today after
playing $10,000 on my card, and no comp at GC, we went across the street to
the Palms and ate a free meal. And we just stayed at Palms. Result for GC
was less play for them.
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If one of these casinos would just give us .25 cashback plus a little extra
in mailers and plenty of unrestricted comps, we would play there all the
time, and forget going to any other casino.

Instead these various promotions have me (and other people) zipping around
town.

Here's me this week:
Dec. 31 - Stayed at Bally's - free dinner and show for New Years, played at
Bally's
Jan. 1 - Free Rio buffet brunch after New Year's invite. Played at Gold
Coast
Jan. 2 - Stopped at Palace Station to pick up $4 from mailer and sign up
husband for card (he got $5 in free play). Ate at Palms (coffee shop on
points) and played at Palms.
Jan. 3 - Palms free $ envelope (Ron got $10, I got $5). Played at Palms.
Ate at Palms (Little Buddah on Points)
Jan. 4 - Palms free scratch, played at Gold Coast, ate at Palms (Coffee shop
on Points)
Jan. 5 - Visit Caesar's for gift valued at $300 due to previous play;
   (May play a little at Caesars) will play at Harrahs because I have a play
100 points get $50 coupon. Will eat at Harrahs Total Gold club for lunch.
Should eat dinner at home for a change.
Jan. 6 - Stop in at Palms for Slot tournament and Free Play; Pick up $ from
Gold Coast mailer; Go to Orleans and play at Orleans, may see movie there
too. Lunch at Palms for free due to scratch card free lunch buffet and $15
food coupon for husband; May eat dinner at Orleans if still hungry.

So in 7 days I'll end up playing at Palms, Gold Coast, Orleans, Harrahs,
Ballys. I may also play a little at Caesar's during my travels.

I'd rather just go to 1 place, but by spreading play around we end up with
more $ and food comps. Note that we live closest to Palms, so it tends to
get a bit more action.

A lot of people are now taking advantage of Stations 500 points = $5
promotion, but there again, it makes sense to play just 500 points, not more.
Once again the promotion isn't really helping pull people in.

Does Palms think it is really making people happy giving out a lot of scratch
cards that pay nothing? Does that make people want to play more and get more
scratch cards?

Does Coast really think that limiting comps and telling people the highest
mailings are for $10,000 coin in per month (and higher play doesn't increase
things)?

Does Stations really think that 500 points for a $5 bonus will get people to
stay and play a lot after 500 points?

And for that matter, regarding my previously posted complaints about
Bally's/Caesars -- Do they really think that by telling me I can't double
book stays or promotions at these two properties is going to make me love
Park Place? And if I only can use 1 promotion - why am I going to keep
playing at both of their properties? Aren't I going to just drop one and
play somewhere else instead?

I know I'm ranting a bit here folks - but really it can be exasperating - why
are casino promotional managers so stupid!?? If they want us to stay and
play, there has got to be a better way!

Personally I think having a special lounge area with food is one way that a
lot of casinos in Vegas could be improved. I loved the Taj Mahal and Resorts
and Sands in Atlantic City because once I had enough play for their higher
slot club levels, I could go into their player lounges, pretty much day or
night, and get food, without ever having to worry about a comp. Harrahs
Diamond Lounge is about the only place similar in Las Vegas, but it fails in
that it only opens after 4pm on weekdays, and usually has no hot food (not to
mention that there is not much decent VP there and truly awful cashback).

If one of these local places were to come up with a nice lounge with a nice
small buffet, and say allow you in once you had say $50,000 in play for 3
month period (you would then get in for the next 3 months) or something like
that, they probably would find themselves saving $ on comps and having people
play there a lot. (All this assuming they still gave about .25 on cashback).

It's just my suggestion, folks.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Does Palms think it is really making people happy giving out a lot of

scratch

cards that pay nothing? Does that make people want to play more and get

more

scratch cards?

  Good question. I think the answer is that the people running these
promotions are idiots. It would be far better to give scratch cards for
JJJJ - AAAA only and save the bother of handing out worthless scratch cards.
Giving players a worthless 'prize' does nothing but breed ill will. I
don't think you want to restrict it much more, because this will mean you
wind up with players who play a lot and get no scratch card. That is
another
way to breed ill will. A 'hit' frequency of appx one scratch card per hour
seems about right.

  Another complaint. Why on earth would they want to restrict multi-line
games to the bottom line? Sure, you give out more tickets, but so what?
MOst multiline games have a horrible ER and anything you do to encourage
people to donate to these beasts is a good idea. Sure, if you happen to
have a posiitive game on them, you will have to be careful to avoid giving
up too much, but that is really not difficult.

Does Coast really think that limiting comps and telling people the highest
mailings are for $10,000 coin in per month (and higher play doesn't

increase

things)?

  Since they have good cashback and frequent 2x points, I have no
complaints. However, the switch to 10K per month certainly seems like
a step in the wrong direction. It punishes infrequent, heavy play with
no obvious upside for the casino.

Does Stations really think that 500 points for a $5 bonus will get people

to

stay and play a lot after 500 points?

  It must be working or they would not have expanded it to all
their properties.

  QZ

<<I think the answer is that the people running these
promotions are idiots.>>

I think we would be wise to be a little more tactful in our criticism of casino employees - criticize the message, not the messenger. I know for a fact that a lot of casino employees, including executives, monitor these forums - and it reinforces their belief (right or wrong) that advantage players are "scum." Let's prove them wrong by showing some good manners and tact - giving positive suggestions when we don't like some promotion/procedure. Giving them some good ideas to replace some of the bad ones we find - and doing it with grace and a polite manner will probably be much more successful in creating change.

···

____________________
Jean $cott - "The Frugal Gambler"
Order autographed book, cassette tape, and the new
   Frugal VP software at http://www.frugalgambler.biz
Read Frugal Fridays at http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jean Scott wrote:

<<I think the answer is that the people running these
promotions are idiots.>>

I think we would be wise to be a little more tactful in our criticism of > casino employees - criticize the message, not the messenger. I know for a > fact that a lot of casino employees, including executives, monitor these > forums - and it reinforces their belief (right or wrong) that advantage > players are "scum." Let's prove them wrong by showing some good manners and > tact - giving positive suggestions when we don't like some > promotion/procedure. Giving them some good ideas to replace some of the bad > ones we find - and doing it with grace and a polite manner will probably be > much more successful in creating change.

The scratch cards at Main Street Ststion, which pay $1 for 4OAKs (no
wild) on nickel machines, and $2 and up for 4OAKs (again, no wild) on
quarter and higher machines, are a long running, successful program.
Good for MSS and good for the players.

···

--
Pat O'Connell
Take nothing but pictures, Leave nothing but footprints,
Kill nothing but vandals...

> The scratch cards at Main Street Ststion, which pay $1 for 4OAKs

(no

wild) on nickel machines, and $2 and up for 4OAKs (again, no wild)

on

quarter and higher machines, are a long running, successful program.
Good for MSS and good for the players.

  Yes, I agree it's a good promotion at MSS. It's always nice to have
a little extra cash thrown in when cashing in your coins. There's
just one thing that bothers me when I see the promo picture of that
lady who won the $5000. It shows her winning hand of four 6's but did
you ever notice the cards she held? And why is her thumb (finger?)
covering up the scratch card amount?

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Pat O'Connell" <nvcaver@l...> wrote:

I agree with misscraps. She is not talking about advantage plays. She
states, "I would sometimes play $30,000 in 1 or 2 days (think about $5 reel
slot play and $1/$2 VP on triple plays or single lines). So would get a
comp." I know for a fact that slot machines and multiplay $1 & $2 VP
multiplays have a house advantage. She is correct to criticize the casinos
as she deserves to be awarded food comps for playing negative expectation
games at a very high $ level. Advantage players who exploit the system for
personal gain at the risk of ruining it for the majority, may indeed qualify
as "scum" in the opinion of some. On the other hand, misscraps is risking
very large amounts of money on negative expectation games in which the
casino has the advantage not the player. She deserves her food comps since
she is taking a bigger risk than most table game players who receive food
comps for similar play. Certainly misscraps play can't be compared to $1 &
$2 full pay DB advantage players who exploit the system only on double point
days. The more I think about it, the more I agree. The people that are
running these promotions are idiots. These promotions are not designed to
attract the advantage player. Smart casino executives would run off the
"advantage" players not the ones who risk large amounts of money on negative
expectation games. Those are the very players casinos should want to keep
happy and keep playing. I for one find misscraps frank posts to be
informative, refreshing and enlightening. I hope the casino executives are
in fact reading along with me.

···

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jean Scott" <queenofcomps@lvcm.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: scratches/envelopes/and other promos -

<<I think the answer is that the people running these
promotions are idiots.>>

I think we would be wise to be a little more tactful in our criticism of

casino employees - criticize the message, not the messenger. I know for a
fact that a lot of casino employees, including executives, monitor these
forums - and it reinforces their belief (right or wrong) that advantage
players are "scum."

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Video Poker Vegas" <vpvegas@c...>
wrote:

She is correct to criticize the casinos as she deserves to be warded

food comps for playing negative expectation games at a very high $
level. . . . She deserves her food comps since she is taking a
bigger risk than most table game players who receive food comps for
similar play.

No to put too fine a point on it, but misscraps never mentioned or
implied the word "deserves." Her emphasis seemed to be the correct
one of incentives in attracting categories of players.

As for the statement about table game players, it has to be asked
just what that is based on?