vpFREE2 Forums

SB 6613

Thanks for your reply. In reality, many good, upstanding, taxpaying US citizens do not carry their SS card with them....proof of this comes from doing tax returns for US citizens for over 25 years....while some do habitually carry them, most do not. We discovered the reason the Indian Casino requires them in South Florida is because there is an over abundance of alien farm workers that do not have SS cards, but love to play the Power Ball Lotto slots. The casino must have decided it was better to require all to present a SS card instead of just some. Chuck's military ID (retired) always suffices in all other instances when he needs to validate his SS#. You are right about not arguing about getting a W2G... after playing in Casinos for the past two years (yes, we are newbies) we have been been more than happy to receive many W2Gs.....this means we are doing something right. I would be remiss not to thank Bob Dancer for this since we have trained with his software and
materials.
   
  { Chuck started playing VP in June of 2004 upon a visit to Harrah's in Cherokee, NC. I had been encouraging him to play, but because of his innocent ignorance, he kept telling me VP was for entertainment only and the real money was getting lucky on a Mega Jackpot Slot. He had never spent any time in casinos while serving in the military, but did change planes in the Vegas airport while in the Marines in 1976 where he saw his first slots. I gave him a quick basic course on JoB which included always holding the face cards in most cases and all pairs.....we played quarters for about 6 hours. It was 2am and I left to get a donut....when I came back, Chuck was gone. When I found him, he was standing in the high limit area pointing at a machine to make me believe he had hit a big Jackpot....turns out, he had placed $50 in a $5 machine (God help us) and he dealt twice. The first hand lost and the second...well he told me he was so tired all he could remember was that I had
said something about holding the face cards....he did not notice the three face cards were all Hearts. He held them and re-dealt....his first reaction to the resulting hand was the machine had broken because the light on top was flashing. He was genuinely upset because he thought he was going to lose his last $25. Imagine his surprise (and certainly mine later) when he discovered he had just hit a Royal for $20K. Needless to say he became a huge believer in VP. To protect us in the future from his over zealous desire to play big and thus lose bigger, I quickly enlightened him with Bob's Win Poker and made him read all the VP books we could find...especially the ones that define bankrolls and how to use them. 2 years later...we are doing fairly well.....mainly though because I have quit going for donuts!! }
   
  We are still looking for that one W2G that we will frame & hang on the wall when we hit the Royal on the $100 machine!!
   
  BTW, that donut at Harrah's was the best one I've ever had!
   
  Chuck & Kathy
   
  Did you know....
   
    Presently, over 170 countries currently have a social security system in place. The list includes every major country in the world. In terms of population, the world's 10 largest countries which have a social security system are:
1. China
1,210,000,000
2. India
968,000,000
3. United States
268,000,000
4. Indonesia
210,000,000
5. Brazil
165,000,000
6. Russia
148,000,000
7. Pakistan
132,000,000
8. Japan
126,000,000
9. Bangladesh
125,000,000
10. Nigeria
107,000,000

Only thing I can figure is that such a person probably does
not report winnings (or loses) on their indiviual tax filings each
year.

Kathy Howard <kc42223@...> wrote:
IRS requires you to report "worldwide" income so it doesn't

matter where it's earned. (25 years with H&R Block)

···

missdeuces <missdeuces@yahoo.com> wrote:

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I also have lived outside the United Satates for many years. In 3
different countries. I always carried my SS card, my state issued
ID and my passport. I even carried my children's SS card with me -
just in case we needed it. Along with their passports. I have no
problem providing my SS card to a casino when winning a jackpot. In
fact, in Virginia (where we use to live) our driver's license number
was our social security number.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bob Sommer - Top of the World Coins
<NL7HT@...> wrote:

Having lived outside the U.S. for 13 of my 60 years and having

traveled

to many foreign countries, I have never carried my SS card here or
abroad. It states on the card that it is not to be used for
identification. I have also never been asked for it in any

casino, no

matter the size of the W2G, I have been in, foreign or domestic.

But to

be fair, I do not and will not go to Indian Casinos either. If I

were

ever asked for it, I would file a formal complaint with the gaming
authority, state, casino, and feds.

Bob

missdeuces wrote:

> I personally have no idea why an American citizen would
> not have their SS card with them or why anyone would want to

argue

> with an Indian operated casino or a Cruise Ship Casino about a

tax

> form. Only thing I can figure is that such a person probably does
> not report winnings (or loses) on their indiviual tax filings

each

···

> year.
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

ALL of the ships owned by Carnival Corp (Carnival, Holland America,
Princess, Cunard) issue W2G's not only on slot wins but for Bingo
wins too. I believe this just started within the last 18 months or
so.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@...>
wrote:

Jean Scott wrote:
> Thanx to those who answered about cruise ships, that SOME do

issue

> W2G's. I think that most do not, but I will note that this is

not

···

> universal.

NCL (which Bob noted) is the only cruise line I've seen discussed as
issuing W2-G's.

Prior to our cruise earlier this year I came across the following on
the NCL "Casinos at Sea" info webpage:
http://www.nclcasino.com/faq.htm

=====================================================================

IRS Reporting
W2G or 1042S forms are issued for single slot machine winnings in
excess of $1200.00 or a single table wager earning more than 300%
return, as in the case of a Caribbean Stud Progressive Jackpot Win.

Federal Income Tax Act stipulates that all American citizens and
Permanent Residents are subject to global income tax. Regardless if

a

US citizen or Permanent Resident earns this income in international
waters or with a ship that carries a foreign flag, if income is
generated, such income becomes taxable. If a Social Security number

is

furnished, then the document W2G will be issued with NO upfront tax
deduction. If a Social Security number is not furnished, then an
upfront withholding tax will apply. Foreign guests will be taxed

only

if winnings are derived within US domestic waters. Whenever a tax

form

is issued to the guest, a duplicate copy will be sent to the IRS.

=====================================================================

I have to assume that this is strictly a case of voluntary reporting
compliance and that there's no way the IRS could enforce such
reporting. I'm surprised that they're motivated to do it.

- Harry

Also, if you wallet is lost or stolen--anyone then has access
  to all you personal information and banking etc accounts!
  Everyone in our family took their SS cards out of their wallets
  years ago -- we also don't carry any credit cards that we
  rarely use. And when we go on vacation or for an extended
  period out of town--we really cut down on what we carry in
  our wallets!

···

Cogno Scienti <cognoscienti@gmail.com> wrote:
  <card with them>>
because the card says "not valid for identification" on it and you are not
required to present it for any reason whatsoever. Cogno

Jean H--
   
  You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes.
You can steer yourself any direction you choose.
You're on your own. And you know what you know.
  And YOU are the one who'll decide where to go.... Dr. Suess

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Cogno Scienti wrote:

Because the card says "not valid for identification" on it and you
are not required to present it for any reason whatsoever.

I did an admittedly inconclusive web search on this topic recently,
including SSA guidance. It's clear that you shouldn't generally carry
it in your wallet. That's one of the greatest risks for identity theft.

However, SSA suggests that you may be asked for it when you first
report for employment. And I found nothing that states that you can't
be required to present it.

If a situation should present itself where someone might legitimately
request it, I can see where there would be an expectation that you
would have it with you.

However, that's a dubious expectation in the casino. The casino only
bears the responsibility of confirming your identity, not your SS #.
That's a matter between you and the IRS. (And, in fact, if you err in
providing the number but a valid address is presented, the IRS will
simply correct the reporting itself -- yes, we had occasion where that
occurred.)

Identity can be reasonably be documented by any appropriate government
issued photo ID. There is nothing in the IRS guidance for W2-G
issuance that requires documentation for the SSN that you provide --
only that your signature on the form constitutes a declaration "under
penalties of perjury" that you have furnished correct information.

That said, I know there'll likely be no successful arguing that with
the casino. And I'm not prepared to return with a lawyer or a written
opinion from the IRS to assert that argument on my behalf.

If I should ever choose to game in an Indian casino at stakes that
risk W2-G reporting, I'll prepare myself accordingly.

- Harry

In

fact, in Virginia (where we use to live) our driver's license number
was our social security number.

...making it easy for identity thieves and other criminal types to
steal from you. Virginia DMV finally wised up some years ago and has
discontinued this practice.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "missdeuces" <missdeuces@...> wrote:

As an American ex-pat, I learned upon hitting a $2000 royal in Caesars
Palace that you do need to have proof of American citizenship to avoid
getting the tax withheld on the spot. I had my photo ID on me (local
drivers license) but had to go back to my hotel room at the Mirage to
get my passport. They first gave me some form to come back and claim
the jackpot and then gave me the W2-G when I showed my U.S. passport
and verbally provided my SS#.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@...> wrote:

Identity can be reasonably be documented by any appropriate government
issued photo ID. There is nothing in the IRS guidance for W2-G
issuance that requires documentation for the SSN that you provide --
only that your signature on the form constitutes a declaration "under
penalties of perjury" that you have furnished correct information.

Actually you are correct. Virginia discontinued this officially on
January 1, 2005.
However, if anyone thinks not carrying their SS card with them means
that they are decreasing the chance of identity theft if their wallet
is lost or stolen is living with false comfort feelings. I suspect
some people just can't find their card.
Either way, I carry mine and I provide it to casino officials, in
Indian casinos, non-indian casinos and cruise ship casinos if I am
lucky enough to win a jackpot (which has not been happening very often
over the past few months.

  In
> fact, in Virginia (where we use to live) our driver's license

number

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Artmo" <paddlejunkie@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "missdeuces" <missdeuces@> wrote:
> was our social security number.

...making it easy for identity thieves and other criminal types to
steal from you. Virginia DMV finally wised up some years ago and has
discontinued this practice.

I have hit in both Indian casinos in Connecticut and just had to show my drivers license and verbaly give my SS#.

Bob M <merg17@hotpop.com> wrote: I hit a W2G jackpot in WI at an Indian casino 2 years ago. I was
given two options: return with my SS card or have federal taxes
withheld.

>
> A couple of years ago, a friend hit a 50c RF at an Indian Casino
in
> WI. He did not carry his SS card w/ him and as a result, they
would
> not pay him anything. They did allow him to return later with the
> card and get his money, but it proved to be a huge hassle.
>
> Correna Correna
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, John Douglass <john.douglass@>
wrote:
> >
> > What about Indian (Native American) casinos? I thought Indian
> reservations were supposed to be sovereign nations... so what are
they
> doing issuing US W2G's? I wonder about the legality.
> >
> > What if you refuse to give your SSN on a cruise or Indian
> reservation....are they going to withhold your jackpot, or a
portion

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "correna2" <correna2@...> wrote:
> thereof?
>

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: "Bob M" <merg17@hotpop.com>

I hit a W2G jackpot in WI at an Indian casino 2 years ago. I was
given two options: return with my SS card or have federal taxes
withheld.

I understand why many people do not wish to carry their social security card
with them at all times. Neither my husband nor I do. I am afraid of
identity theft. Suppose I lose my wallet or someone steals it? I have
never been refused payment of a taxable jackpot. Two weeks ago, at
Silverton I was playing a pitiful machine and got a jackpot of $1800. When
they came over, they asked for my social security card. I said I did not
have it but I had plenty of other ID, including my Silverton card and my
driver's license. They took the driver's license. They asked me to write
down my SS number on a piece of paper. I did so, they returned quickly with
my money and did not take out taxes. Annie

However, if anyone thinks not carrying their SS card with them

means

that they are decreasing the chance of identity theft if their

wallet

is lost or stolen is living with false comfort feelings.

You are certainly intitled to your beliefs, but I would say you have
it backwards, that it is those who routinely carry around their SS
card in their wallet and think they are not increasing the chance of
identity theft who are living with "false comfort feelings". Of
course I am assuming they are not also carrying around other ID
cards that have their SS number on them as well. In that case the
added risk of a SS card may make little difference if their wallet
gets stolen. They would already be sitting ducks. My opinion only
echoes that of the vast majority of identity theft experts.

For more on this:

http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10064.html

and

http://www.aarp.org/research/frauds-scams/fraud/fs122_id_theft.html

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "missdeuces" <missdeuces@...> wrote: