vpFREE2 Forums

Say What?

#1

When I played at the MGM Grand (it's been almost 5 years since I
was run off), you had a better chance of getting a loss rebated if you
were Oriental --- and the rebates were a percentage of your markers. So
if you had $100,000 in markers and you were Oriental (even if you were
born in California --- were an American citizen --- and didn't know any
Chinese words. You were Oriental if you LOOKED Oriental and had an
Oriental surname), you could probably get $10,000 or $20,000 forgiven.

My response: I was so distracted by the language in the first sentence
I ignored what you were saying about rebates.

If you call Asians or Asian-Americans "Orientals" I shudder to think
what you call blacks.

You know better.

···

From: "Bob Dancer" <bob.dancer@...>
Date: Sat Jan 21, 2006 5:39 am
Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Large loss rebates bobdancer05

#2

A few people have commented on my use of the word "Oriental", by
which I meant Asian. I have never considered Oriental a phrase that is
derogatory in any sense. Those of you who have read my autobiography
know I dated a Taiwanese woman for several years. And the reason we
broke up had nothing to do with her heritage.

        Apparently my language isn't politically correct --- and for
that I apologize --- although as a rule I think being politically
correct is overrated.

        To anyone offended, please forgive me.

        In my new novel "More Sex, Lies, and Video Poker" (which will be
out in about a month) I use the word "Oriental" in two separate
occasions. My editor (Deke Castlemen) didn't comment on the term, nor
did any of the numerous people who read the book as a technical edit.
I'm frankly surprised that this has become an issue here.

        But it has. And for that I'm sorry. I meant no offense.

Bob Dancer

For the best in video poker information, visit www.bobdancer.com
or call 1-800-244-2224 M-F 9-5 Pacific Time.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#3

What is derogatory about the term "Oriental"? For 70+ years it has meant a person or thing from the Orient to me. Is there something derogatory about the term "Easterner" referring to a New Yorker?

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: npf125
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 11:54 AM
  Subject: [vpFREE] Say What?

  From: "Bob Dancer" <bob.dancer@...>
  Date: Sat Jan 21, 2006 5:39 am
  Subject: RE: [vpFREE] Large loss rebates bobdancer05

  When I played at the MGM Grand (it's been almost 5 years since I
  was run off), you had a better chance of getting a loss rebated if you
  were Oriental --- and the rebates were a percentage of your markers. So
  if you had $100,000 in markers and you were Oriental (even if you were
  born in California --- were an American citizen --- and didn't know any
  Chinese words. You were Oriental if you LOOKED Oriental and had an
  Oriental surname), you could probably get $10,000 or $20,000 forgiven.

  My response: I was so distracted by the language in the first sentence
  I ignored what you were saying about rebates.

  If you call Asians or Asian-Americans "Orientals" I shudder to think
  what you call blacks.

  You know better.

  vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

    a.. Visit your group "vpFREE" on the web.
      
    b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
     vpFREE-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      
    c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  No virus found in this incoming message.
  Checked by AVG Free Edition.
  Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.21/236 - Release Date: 1/20/2006

  ----------

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.14.21/236 - Release Date: 1/20/2006

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#4

I have a real problem with these discussions, being
a George Carlin fan:-) Why is the term "Hoosier" and
perhaps to a lesser extent "Yankee" NOT considered
deragotory but "Okie" and "Mexican" (at least in Texas
where I live) are? How Occidental of me to bring this
up.

···

--- Richard Gordon <theolflash@cox.net> wrote:

What is derogatory about the term "Oriental"? For
70+ years it has meant a person or thing from the
Orient to me. Is there something derogatory about
the term "Easterner" referring to a New Yorker?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

#5

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Gordon" <theolflash@c...>
wrote:

What is derogatory about the term "Oriental"? For 70+ years it

has meant a person or thing from the Orient to me. Is there
something derogatory about the term "Easterner" referring to a New
Yorker? <<<

The number one definition on the web for Oriental when Googled was:

"(A) member of an Oriental race; the term is regarded as offensive
by Asians (especially by Asian Americans)"

According to the American Heritage Dictionary uaage notes:

"Asian is now strongly preferred in place of Oriental for persons
native to Asia or descended from an Asian people. The usual
objection to Oriental—meaning "eastern"—is that it identifies Asian
countries and peoples in terms of their location relative to Europe.
However, this objection is not generally made of other Eurocentric
terms such as Near and Middle Eastern. The real problem with
Oriental is more likely its connotations stemming from an earlier
era when Europeans viewed the regions east of the Mediterranean as
exotic lands full of romance and intrigue, the home of despotic
empires and inscrutable customs. At the least these associations can
give Oriental a dated feel, and as a noun in contemporary contexts
(as in the first Oriental to be elected from the district) it is now
widely taken to be offensive. However, Oriental should not be
thought of as an ethnic slur to be avoided in all situations. As
with Asiatic, its use other than as an ethnonym, in phrases such as
Oriental cuisine or Oriental medicine, is not usually considered
objectionable.

#6

Bob, I'm not sure what I'm more sorry to hear about, that you have to
defend this absurd semantical interpretation, or that you're actually
writing another soft porn novel.

Regarding the former, this has been discussed on USENET forums in the
past. Personally, I think it's stupid. "Oriental" has many different
meanings, depending on what part of the English-speaking world you are
in. In Europe, "Oriental" generally refers to Middle Eastern. It's
certainly correct usage no matter where you are. At the absolute very
worst, one could argue it's use is archaic, but certainly not a slur
by any means. I can think of many substantially less honorific terms
to describe a person of Asian descent.

Regarding the new book, I'll be breathlessly waiting for an excerpt of
it on Kirkus Reviews. At the very least, your fluctuations are a lot
more stable writing than they are playing.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Dancer" <bob.dancer@c...> wrote:

        A few people have commented on my use of the word "Oriental", by
which I meant Asian. I have never considered Oriental a phrase that is
derogatory in any sense. Those of you who have read my autobiography
know I dated a Taiwanese woman for several years. And the reason we
broke up had nothing to do with her heritage.

        Apparently my language isn't politically correct --- and for
that I apologize --- although as a rule I think being politically
correct is overrated.

        To anyone offended, please forgive me.

        In my new novel "More Sex, Lies, and Video Poker" (which will be
out in about a month) I use the word "Oriental" in two separate
occasions. My editor (Deke Castlemen) didn't comment on the term, nor
did any of the numerous people who read the book as a technical edit.
I'm frankly surprised that this has become an issue here.

        But it has. And for that I'm sorry. I meant no offense.

Bob Dancer

For the best in video poker information, visit www.bobdancer.com
or call 1-800-244-2224 M-F 9-5 Pacific Time.

#7

Bob-
I wouldn't worry about it. Political correctness is highly over rated...: )
I guess I should be offended when referred to as a "westerner" instead
of an American..

To each his own, but I don't see anything derogatory in the word "Oriental".

Bob Dancer wrote:

···

I'm frankly surprised that this has become an issue here.

        But it has. And for that I'm sorry. I meant no offense.

Bob Dancer

#8

Do you *really* care what other people think about you, Bob?

You can't really worry about offending people because SOMEONE is always
going to be offended, no matter what you do.

For Christ's sake, I find things offensive in life ALL THE TIME. But, I
don't whine about it. I just make a note of it and go on with my life. I
don't annoy the offender by telling them that they are offensive to me.
What a waste of my time!

···

On 1/22/06, Bob Dancer <bob.dancer@compdance.com> wrote:

       Apparently my language isn't politically correct --- and for
that I apologize --- although as a rule I think being politically
correct is overrated.

       To anyone offended, please forgive me.

#9

I agree, Rob.

When I go to Chinatown (in Los Angeles), I'm called a 'round-eye.' No big
deal. I just eat my dim sum and have a nice lunch.

Some people on this list probably think I should be offended.

What do I care what they think? What do I care if someone on this list is
offended? (I don't.)

···

On 1/22/06, Rob Massa <rmassa@networksplus.net> wrote:

I wouldn't worry about it. Political correctness is highly over rated...:
)
I guess I should be offended when referred to as a "westerner" instead
of an American..

To each his own, but I don't see anything derogatory in the word
"Oriental".