vpFREE2 Forums

Sam's Town Tier Credit Formula

#1

Video Poker
(1/House Edge) x 50¢ = Coin-in required for 1 Tier Point. 2 Tier Credits = $1 in Theoretical
Example: 99.73% NSUD (0.27% House Edge) = (1/0.0027)x50¢ =$185
Example 2: 98.91 Ugly Ducks (1.09% House Edge)
(1/.0109)x50¢=$46

Yes, typical players who use shady versions of basic strategy or who just guess get screwed since the typical player gives up 1% to 1.5% more than perfect play expectation.

Slots (House Edge Averaged to assume 10% Theoretical for all games)
1 Tier Credit per $5 Coin-in = 50¢ of theoretical.

Yes, choosy slot gamblers who play full coin on higher denomination machines get a better deal for their money in terms of comps earned vs unchoosy slot gamblers short coining it on penny games. And of course AP slot players get a great deal.

#2

Theo on Ugly Ducks 1.09% house win? Live BJ for Basic Strategy players using Strip is about 00.5% or better. Pennsylvania house win .4% on BJ. High labor costs to operate. Unskilled players probably lose about 2 - 3 % VP unskilled probably about same. Live BJ higher gross house win. But, higher payroll.

Video Poker Game will Operate for years and never break down. No health care, lunch breaks, back talk to managers, strikes, weekly salary or any other pesky things people need or do.

SO…Whats their big deal? My opinion: Each manager sees 5- 10% win on slots and suddenly

he sees 1% VP hold. Sometime management has attitude that sending steady customers, spending house

2 - 1 1/2%, aren’t worth it. Manager in many places don’t even take into account the spouse may play slots or other stuff. Geeze, I know a guy who plays slots and wife plays BJ… When Dad leaves Mom leaves too.

Takes years to develop customers. Bad management can destroy any business Quickly. It’s their joint and they operate as they wish.

I play under what conditions I like. I will spend my $$ as I wish. Took years to capture me and I can easily

vote with my feet.

Happy Trails to all . Cheers… Jeep

#3

Wow, how do you get the formula, isn’t it company secret?

#4

When the change happened players began testing countdowns, it did not take long to reverse engineer their tier credit formula. There are two things I'd like to know though.

1. Is Boyd ADT still calculated on a 6 month rolling average; and,
2. Is the theo represented by the Tier Credits the actual machine theo they assume for the purposes of determining your worth (ADT). Based on my recent offers I'd have to say yes because my old 6x$100 per month offers are now 6x$15 per month for the same amounts of action. (50K coin thru in one day at 8/5 Bonus Poker).

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Wow, how do you get the formula, isn't it company >secret?

#5

I hear you Jeeps…I would like to know how many Ruby players Sam’s Town has lost and how many employees will be laid off…We used to go 2-3x a year, played a mix of Slots and Vp, got 2-3 comp night offers…now NOTHING like we Never existed…It appears they adjusted the status for Emeralds for 2019, but in effect told the large Ruby customer base to pound sand…Casinos used to try everything to create loyal customers…no longer…

#6

My sister-in-law used to be Vegas resident. Now in Pa. She just came back from Vegas… She believes things have gone down hill in last 7 months since she left. One persons opinion.

Cheers…Jeep

#7

Say Jeeps, you still have a trip to Vegas soon? Let us know how Sam’s Town …opps Ghost Town is doing after Xing all the Ruby players…

Good Luck

GB

#8

Regarding all the speculation and the casual observation about Sam’s Town and Boyd casinos business taking a hit after the major changes to BConnected, the first quarterly earnings report post BConnected changes is in, and the earnings were stunning good. Earnings increased 45.5% year over year on higher margins. Yes, that’s over a 45% increase! Revenues totaled $791.6 million, faring better than the consensus estimate of $776 million. The top line also improved 33% year over year.

So, we can put the “no one goes there since the changes anymore” claims aside. A 45% increase in earnings since the changes says a lot more than a few individuals unscientific observations. Boyd has profited GREATLY from these changes, without a doubt. The knowledgeable player population, which this board represents, is tiny compared to the total casino customer population. So a few dozen “I’m not playing there anymore” posts from unprofitable (to Boyd) customers isn’t going to make a difference to the company.

Nothing would please me more than to see the company burned for making these changes. The results are in, and now that the fantastic results are in, you can expect other casino companies are going to make similar cuts in their player programs too in the coming 1-2 years.

I am a former Sam’s Town regular customer, who hasn’t risked a dime there in over a year. They are doing fine without me.

#9

“I am a former Sam’s Town regular customer, who hasn’t risked a dime there in over a year. They are doing fine without me.”

unfortunately you are probably right, however the last quarter results did not have the full impact of the changes to reward benefits…we’'ll see what next quarter looks like … In the meantime I am not travelling to Vegas until some offers are received. I haven’t played in Laughlin in 5 years and still get offers for rooms…Overall, I believe Vegas is killing the golden goose that lays the golden eggs…

#10

A lot of Boyd's increase in revenue is due to their acquisition of and takeover of properties like Ameristar in St Louis. That said, slot players are being rewarded generously for their play much better than under the old system. That is where the money is. I've quit playing at Boyd but I'm pretty close with the rollover points to Sapphire renewal so I'll probably earn the 350 points I need just to keep the status in case something changes.

#11

This is a great post.

Thank you Caribou. May the wolves stay away this winter.

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#12

thx VPBP are you a local or have to travel to Vegas? As Ruby players looking at the numbers I don’t see how my Wife and I could ever reach Sapphire without visiting 4-5 X a year EVERY YEAR…

We play a mix of VP and slots and change machines often. we live in So. Cal but could never go to Vegas that many times a year. My point is Boyd has basically kicked out the Ruby player which could be a large customer base for them…Yes this is the trend and it will probably get worse, but Vegas do not have a monopoly on gambling . It was fun while it lasted. We will stay in So. Cal or go to Laughlin/Reno.

#13

I'm a local. 750 points to Sapphire. On slots that's only $3750 coin-in and if you choose the right slots your -EV cost will be less than Video Poker to achieve status. Once you make Sapphire play all the VP at 11x points you want. Just realize the theos for good VP are now so low you won't get much in comps or mail except for your points and you will never make Emerald playing Video Poker. That's by design.

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thx VPBP are you a local or have to travel to Vegas? As Ruby players looking at the numbers I don't see how my Wife and I could ever reach Sapphire without visiting 4-5 X a year EVERY YEAR...

#14

thanks VPBP that is good strategy for a local and one I would use(if local)or find another hobby…ha

Certainly, Boyd will not miss me, but they may miss 1000’s of other Ruby players if they decide to walk…At some point I would expect the excessive fees and nickel and diming the customers for all they are worth will take a toll on traffic.

MGM just announced…(soon) all free drinks will be given out based on card play(not just at the bars). These drinks may be made behind the scenes by a Robot bartender…(.think water !!!)

Personally I think Las Vegas casino stocks are good shorts…

Good Luck

GB

#15

MGM already cut their standard pour from 1.25oz to 0.75oz. Locals in LV don't bother with MGM properties. Mail sucks. Unfortunately Stations now pretty much sucks as bad a Boyd for local LV VP players. Want good mail and perks you pretty much have to find a way to mix some slot play into your game at many places and find a way to do it without losing your bankroll.

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MGM just announced..(soon) all free drinks will be given out based on card play(not just at the bars). These drinks may be made behind the scenes by a Robot bartender..(.think water !!!)

#16

The early financial figures for Boyd may be somewhat deceiving for future success as they don’t include borderline tier people who played extra to make Sapphire for this year but will reduce their play knowing they can’t achieve again. They also added resort
fees last April. So it will take more time to see if their changes will be successful in the long run.

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From: vpF…@…com <vpF…@…com> on behalf of vpbp2…@…com [vpFREE] <vpF…@…com>
Sent: Monday, March 11, 2019 1:41 PM
To: vpF…@…com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Sam’s Town Tier Credit Formula

MGM already cut their standard pour from 1.25oz to 0.75oz. Locals in LV don’t bother with MGM properties. Mail sucks. Unfortunately Stations now pretty much sucks as bad a Boyd for local LV VP players. Want good mail and perks you pretty much have to find a
way to mix some slot play into your game at many places and find a way to do it without losing your bankroll.

MGM just announced…(soon) all free drinks will be given out based on card play(not just at the bars). These drinks may be made behind the scenes by a Robot bartender…(.think water !!!)

#17

“Want good mail and perks you pretty much have to find a way to mix some slot play into your game at many places and find a way to do it without losing your bankroll.”

Thanks Vpbp…it appears you have figured out a way to eek out a few benefits as a local…It remain dismal for the budget gambler non-local, especially the ones that previously flew in a couple times a year… and yes Stations is just as bad as Boyd…Thx