vpFREE2 Forums

Sam's Town Rip City alert!!! 6X points is a sham

#1

I am breaking a several-week posting silence to alert VpFree members
of a scam that I recently walked into, eyes wide open:

For whatever reason, I have never played at Sam's town very much; I
only have about 20K coin-in logged in for 2004. When I heard that
they were having 6X points on these two consecutive weekends (last
and upcoming), I decided to go down there and give 'em some play.

Contrary to many reports, the $1 FPDB's were easily available and I
logged a few hours on one for -$200. I then moved to five-play $1
Illinois Deuces/ 9/6 DDB, with the intention of throwing in some
heavy play, figuring that at 1% comps (or .6 cashback) I wasn't
hurting myself too badly, and I wanted to get "established" as a
sizable player. Well, I survived with a $10 net win, and then played
some more $1 DB and a little quarter One-Eyed Jacks (a fun game,
which I always seem to win at). At the end of the session, the
reader informed me that I had accumulated some 235,000+ points; this
was after the 6X points was factored in as the Sam's computer does
this "on the fly". So, since I had started the day with about 10,000
points in my account, the base figure of 225/6 or 32,500 base coin-
in seemed about right.

I decided to go get a food comp fron the slot booth and to collect
the jacket they offered for earning 10K points in February. Imagine
my surprise when the slot boothling informed me that I only had
18,000 total points!!! I expressed my flabbergastedness at this, and
he looked at the screen, frowned, and said, "just a minute". I would
up talking to about five different people over the next two days,
but the bottom line is that they wiped out my play on the multiline
dollar machine, because they somehow couldn't believe that anyone
could put on 25,000 points in 2 1/2 hours, so they looked at the
machine and concluded that there was a "runaway meter" because
the "battery was low", and that the machine had been putting points
on my card far in excess of my play!! BATTERY??? WHAT F-in battery?
Don't these machines use good ol' 110 volts ee-leck-trick-ity?
Needless to say, I was stunned at both the audacity of the attempt
to rip me off and the assumption that I was stupid enough to believe
what they were saying. I pointed out that someone playing $1 five-
play, even at the modest speed of 400 hands/hour, would indeed put
10,000 dollars an hour into the machine. They simply blew me off,
further adding to my aggravation by acting rude and condescending,
as if I was trying to rip THEM off and they had caught me at it. I
demanded that they review the surveillance tapes to verify that I
HAD been playing, and playing that fast. That seemed to slow them
down a little, and they later "gave" me an adjustment up to 91,000
points, still far fewer than the 235,000 I had actually earned.
There the matter restes for now–but I intend to pursue it, with
Gaming (that toothless pussycat) and with upperSam management.

In the meantime, I urge all VPFree members to stay the hell away
from Scam's Town!!

#2

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rockofjello333" <rockofjello333@y...>
wrote:
snip...
because they somehow couldn't believe that anyone

could put on 25,000 points in 2 1/2 hours, so they looked at the
machine and concluded that there was a "runaway meter" because
the "battery was low", and that the machine had been putting points
on my card far in excess of my play!! BATTERY??? WHAT F-in

battery?

Don't these machines use good ol' 110 volts ee-leck-trick-ity?

...snip

Ha, this is interesting. Sometimes, as i walk through a casino,
usually late at night, I'll here a machine with a spinning meter.
D'ya think if I slip my card in for awhile I'll get some free pts?
Wish I knew more about player tracking software.

BTW: a low battery (a backup on the processor board for the RAM) will
cause a hard tilt, rendering the game unplayable. Never heard of it
spinning the meters.

#3

I have the State Gaming Control for Las Vegas on my cell phone (702 486 2000) for this very reason.

···

rockofjello333 <rockofjello333@yahoo.com> wrote:

I am breaking a several-week posting silence to alert VpFree members
of a scam that I recently walked into, eyes wide open:

For whatever reason, I have never played at Sam's town very much; I
only have about 20K coin-in logged in for 2004. When I heard that
they were having 6X points on these two consecutive weekends (last
and upcoming), I decided to go down there and give 'em some play.

Contrary to many reports, the $1 FPDB's were easily available and I
logged a few hours on one for -$200. I then moved to five-play $1
Illinois Deuces/ 9/6 DDB, with the intention of throwing in some
heavy play, figuring that at 1% comps (or .6 cashback) I wasn't
hurting myself too badly, and I wanted to get "established" as a
sizable player. Well, I survived with a $10 net win, and then played
some more $1 DB and a little quarter One-Eyed Jacks (a fun game,
which I always seem to win at). At the end of the session, the
reader informed me that I had accumulated some 235,000+ points; this
was after the 6X points was factored in as the Sam's computer does
this "on the fly". So, since I had started the day with about 10,000
points in my account, the base figure of 225/6 or 32,500 base coin-
in seemed about right.

I decided to go get a food comp fron the slot booth and to collect
the jacket they offered for earning 10K points in February. Imagine
my surprise when the slot boothling informed me that I only had
18,000 total points!!! I expressed my flabbergastedness at this, and
he looked at the screen, frowned, and said, "just a minute". I would
up talking to about five different people over the next two days,
but the bottom line is that they wiped out my play on the multiline
dollar machine, because they somehow couldn't believe that anyone
could put on 25,000 points in 2 1/2 hours, so they looked at the
machine and concluded that there was a "runaway meter" because
the "battery was low", and that the machine had been putting points
on my card far in excess of my play!! BATTERY??? WHAT F-in battery?
Don't these machines use good ol' 110 volts ee-leck-trick-ity?
Needless to say, I was stunned at both the audacity of the attempt
to rip me off and the assumption that I was stupid enough to believe
what they were saying. I pointed out that someone playing $1 five-
play, even at the modest speed of 400 hands/hour, would indeed put
10,000 dollars an hour into the machine. They simply blew me off,
further adding to my aggravation by acting rude and condescending,
as if I was trying to rip THEM off and they had caught me at it. I
demanded that they review the surveillance tapes to verify that I
HAD been playing, and playing that fast. That seemed to slow them
down a little, and they later "gave" me an adjustment up to 91,000
points, still far fewer than the 235,000 I had actually earned.
There the matter restes for now–but I intend to pursue it, with
Gaming (that toothless pussycat) and with upperSam management.

In the meantime, I urge all VPFree members to stay the hell away
from Scam's Town!!

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

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#4

The spinning meter you hear is a mechanical counter that
increments credits paid. So if you hit a royal it will
click 4000 times. This has nothing to do with
player tracking.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rockofjello333"

<rockofjello333@y...>

wrote:
snip...
because they somehow couldn't believe that anyone
> could put on 25,000 points in 2 1/2 hours, so they looked at the
> machine and concluded that there was a "runaway meter" because
> the "battery was low", and that the machine had been putting

points

> on my card far in excess of my play!! BATTERY??? WHAT F-in
battery?
> Don't these machines use good ol' 110 volts ee-leck-trick-ity?
…snip

Ha, this is interesting. Sometimes, as i walk through a casino,
usually late at night, I'll here a machine with a spinning meter.
D'ya think if I slip my card in for awhile I'll get some free pts?
Wish I knew more about player tracking software.

BTW: a low battery (a backup on the processor board for the RAM)

will

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vp1000mph" <1000mph@m...> wrote:

cause a hard tilt, rendering the game unplayable. Never heard of it

spinning the meters.

#5

the minimum meters (more like odometers), required by law, are coin
in, coin out and coin drop
if you hit a royal on a standard single denomination machine, the coin
out meter will count up an additional 4000
but for multidenominational machines, there is a problem, often the
denomination can be anywhere from $5 to pennies
the meters have to record the lowest denomination
hit a $5 royal on a machine that can be set for pennies means the coin
out meter has to count up an additional 2,000,000 and that can take a
while and it appears that can interfer with some player tracking
systems
in addition, with modern systems, casinos can set parameters to catch
fraud and machine malfunction, but they don't always set them
correctly and legitimate play gets diverted and probably "regular"
players get red flagged as possible cheats or "advantage" (aka
winning) players
bottom line is that the modern multi-denominational, multi-game,
multi-bet from 1 to 250 credits, multi-play, ticket-in ticket-out,
random bonuses, and player tracking systems are very complex and
sometimes don't work correctly, generally not to the player's
advantage

The spinning meter you hear is a mechanical counter that
increments credits paid. So if you hit a royal it will
click 4000 times. This has nothing to do with
player tracking.

>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rockofjello333"
<rockofjello333@y...>
> wrote:
> snip...
> because they somehow couldn't believe that anyone
> > could put on 25,000 points in 2 1/2 hours, so they looked at

the

> > machine and concluded that there was a "runaway meter" because
> > the "battery was low", and that the machine had been putting
points
> > on my card far in excess of my play!! BATTERY??? WHAT F-in
> battery?
> > Don't these machines use good ol' 110 volts ee-leck-trick-ity?
> …snip
>
> Ha, this is interesting. Sometimes, as i walk through a casino,
> usually late at night, I'll here a machine with a spinning meter.
> D'ya think if I slip my card in for awhile I'll get some free pts?
> Wish I knew more about player tracking software.
>
> BTW: a low battery (a backup on the processor board for the RAM)
will
> cause a hard tilt, rendering the game unplayable. Never heard of

it

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "al55442" <al55442@c...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vp1000mph" <1000mph@m...> wrote:

> spinning the meters.

#6

Mechanical meters are no longer required by GLI test
labs when the machine is used with an on-line
monitoring system.

(Gaming Laboratories International, Inc. (GLI))

GAMING LABS CERTIFIED
STANDARD SERIES
GLI-11:
Gaming Devices in Casinos
Version 1.3

3.19 Removed Mechanical Meter requirements. Added Multi-Station Games
and requirements to this section. Mechanical meters and all references
to them have been removed, as GLI believes that these meters are no
longer needed when the machine is used with an on-line
monitoring system.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000"
<nightoftheiguana2000@y...> wrote:

the minimum meters (more like odometers), required by law, are coin
in, coin out and coin drop
if you hit a royal on a standard single denomination machine, the

coin

out meter will count up an additional 4000
but for multidenominational machines, there is a problem, often the
denomination can be anywhere from $5 to pennies
the meters have to record the lowest denomination
hit a $5 royal on a machine that can be set for pennies means the

coin

out meter has to count up an additional 2,000,000 and that can take

a

while and it appears that can interfer with some player tracking
systems
in addition, with modern systems, casinos can set parameters to

catch

fraud and machine malfunction, but they don't always set them
correctly and legitimate play gets diverted and probably "regular"
players get red flagged as possible cheats or "advantage" (aka
winning) players
bottom line is that the modern multi-denominational, multi-game,
multi-bet from 1 to 250 credits, multi-play, ticket-in ticket-out,
random bonuses, and player tracking systems are very complex and
sometimes don't work correctly, generally not to the player's
advantage

>
> The spinning meter you hear is a mechanical counter that
> increments credits paid. So if you hit a royal it will
> click 4000 times. This has nothing to do with
> player tracking.
>
>
>
> >
> > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rockofjello333"
> <rockofjello333@y...>
> > wrote:
> > snip...
> > because they somehow couldn't believe that anyone
> > > could put on 25,000 points in 2 1/2 hours, so they looked at
the
> > > machine and concluded that there was a "runaway meter"

because

> > > the "battery was low", and that the machine had been putting
> points
> > > on my card far in excess of my play!! BATTERY??? WHAT F-in
> > battery?
> > > Don't these machines use good ol' 110 volts

ee-leck-trick-ity?

> > ...snip
> >
> > Ha, this is interesting. Sometimes, as i walk through a casino,
> > usually late at night, I'll here a machine with a spinning

meter.

> > D'ya think if I slip my card in for awhile I'll get some free

pts?

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "al55442" <al55442@c...> wrote:
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vp1000mph" <1000mph@m...> wrote:
> > Wish I knew more about player tracking software.
> >
> > BTW: a low battery (a backup on the processor board for the RAM)
> will
> > cause a hard tilt, rendering the game unplayable. Never heard of
it
>
> > spinning the meters.

#7

Meter reqmnts vary by jurisdiction. No hard meters required at all in
NJ! Hard meters CAN be set to $1 even if denom goes lower than $1
(prob the reason for some Acct errors.)
To al55442: I'm curious, how do you know the signal to run the meters
isn't the same signal that is sent to PT system?

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000"
<nightoftheiguana2000@y...> wrote:

the minimum meters (more like odometers), required by law, are coin
in, coin out and coin drop
if you hit a royal on a standard single denomination machine, the

coin

out meter will count up an additional 4000
but for multidenominational machines, there is a problem, often the
denomination can be anywhere from $5 to pennies
the meters have to record the lowest denomination
hit a $5 royal on a machine that can be set for pennies means the

coin

out meter has to count up an additional 2,000,000 and that can take

a

while and it appears that can interfer with some player tracking
systems
in addition, with modern systems, casinos can set parameters to

catch

···

fraud and machine malfunction, but they don't always set them
correctly and legitimate play gets diverted and probably "regular"
players get red flagged as possible cheats or "advantage" (aka
winning) players
bottom line is that the modern multi-denominational, multi-game,
multi-bet from 1 to 250 credits, multi-play, ticket-in ticket-out,
random bonuses, and player tracking systems are very complex and
sometimes don't work correctly, generally not to the player's
advantage

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "al55442" <al55442@c...> wrote:
>
> The spinning meter you hear is a mechanical counter that
> increments credits paid. So if you hit a royal it will
> click 4000 times. This has nothing to do with
> player tracking.
>
>

#8

The pt system would receive the value with one transaction,
that same amount is sent to the meter task in the game and
that task is responsible for making sure that meter finishes
incrementing all values.

Meter reqmnts vary by jurisdiction. No hard meters required at all

in

NJ! Hard meters CAN be set to $1 even if denom goes lower than $1
(prob the reason for some Acct errors.)
To al55442: I'm curious, how do you know the signal to run the

meters

isn't the same signal that is sent to PT system?

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000"
<nightoftheiguana2000@y...> wrote:
>
> the minimum meters (more like odometers), required by law, are

coin

> in, coin out and coin drop
> if you hit a royal on a standard single denomination machine, the
coin
> out meter will count up an additional 4000
> but for multidenominational machines, there is a problem, often

the

> denomination can be anywhere from $5 to pennies
> the meters have to record the lowest denomination
> hit a $5 royal on a machine that can be set for pennies means the
coin
> out meter has to count up an additional 2,000,000 and that can

take

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vp1000mph" <1000mph@m...> wrote:

a
> while and it appears that can interfer with some player tracking
> systems
> in addition, with modern systems, casinos can set parameters to
catch
> fraud and machine malfunction, but they don't always set them
> correctly and legitimate play gets diverted and probably "regular"
> players get red flagged as possible cheats or "advantage" (aka
> winning) players
> bottom line is that the modern multi-denominational, multi-game,
> multi-bet from 1 to 250 credits, multi-play, ticket-in ticket-out,
> random bonuses, and player tracking systems are very complex and
> sometimes don't work correctly, generally not to the player's
> advantage
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "al55442" <al55442@c...> wrote:
> >
> > The spinning meter you hear is a mechanical counter that
> > increments credits paid. So if you hit a royal it will
> > click 4000 times. This has nothing to do with
> > player tracking.
> >
> >

#9

what if the player quits (pulls card) or tickets out or hits a
handpay/taxable before the meter task has completed?
(meters set to pennies generally can't keep up even with normal dollar
play)
what if the player wins a random bonus feature before the meters have
caught up to existing play?
then the player tickets out and pulls card ...

The pt system would receive the value with one transaction,
that same amount is sent to the meter task in the game and
that task is responsible for making sure that meter finishes
incrementing all values.

>
> Meter reqmnts vary by jurisdiction. No hard meters required at all
in
> NJ! Hard meters CAN be set to $1 even if denom goes lower than $1
> (prob the reason for some Acct errors.)
> To al55442: I'm curious, how do you know the signal to run the
meters
> isn't the same signal that is sent to PT system?
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000"
> <nightoftheiguana2000@y...> wrote:
> >
> > the minimum meters (more like odometers), required by law, are
coin
> > in, coin out and coin drop
> > if you hit a royal on a standard single denomination machine,

the

> coin
> > out meter will count up an additional 4000
> > but for multidenominational machines, there is a problem, often
the
> > denomination can be anywhere from $5 to pennies
> > the meters have to record the lowest denomination
> > hit a $5 royal on a machine that can be set for pennies means

the

> coin
> > out meter has to count up an additional 2,000,000 and that can
take
> a
> > while and it appears that can interfer with some player tracking
> > systems
> > in addition, with modern systems, casinos can set parameters to
> catch
> > fraud and machine malfunction, but they don't always set them
> > correctly and legitimate play gets diverted and probably

"regular"

> > players get red flagged as possible cheats or "advantage" (aka
> > winning) players
> > bottom line is that the modern multi-denominational, multi-game,
> > multi-bet from 1 to 250 credits, multi-play, ticket-in

ticket-out,

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "al55442" <al55442@c...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vp1000mph" <1000mph@m...> wrote:
> > random bonuses, and player tracking systems are very complex and
> > sometimes don't work correctly, generally not to the player's
> > advantage
> >
> > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "al55442" <al55442@c...> wrote:
> > >
> > > The spinning meter you hear is a mechanical counter that
> > > increments credits paid. So if you hit a royal it will
> > > click 4000 times. This has nothing to do with
> > > player tracking.
> > >
> > >

#10

If the player causes another event that would require
the meters to increment, than another task would be
in the meter que to start as soon as the current one
is done running. The meters could run for days.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000"
<nightoftheiguana2000@y...> wrote:

what if the player quits (pulls card) or tickets out or hits a
handpay/taxable before the meter task has completed?
(meters set to pennies generally can't keep up even with normal

dollar

play)
what if the player wins a random bonus feature before the meters

have

caught up to existing play?
then the player tickets out and pulls card ...

>
> The pt system would receive the value with one transaction,
> that same amount is sent to the meter task in the game and
> that task is responsible for making sure that meter finishes
> incrementing all values.
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> > Meter reqmnts vary by jurisdiction. No hard meters required at

all

> in
> > NJ! Hard meters CAN be set to $1 even if denom goes lower than

$1

> > (prob the reason for some Acct errors.)
> > To al55442: I'm curious, how do you know the signal to run the
> meters
> > isn't the same signal that is sent to PT system?
> >
> > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000"
> > <nightoftheiguana2000@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > > the minimum meters (more like odometers), required by law, are
> coin
> > > in, coin out and coin drop
> > > if you hit a royal on a standard single denomination machine,
the
> > coin
> > > out meter will count up an additional 4000
> > > but for multidenominational machines, there is a problem,

often

> the
> > > denomination can be anywhere from $5 to pennies
> > > the meters have to record the lowest denomination
> > > hit a $5 royal on a machine that can be set for pennies means
the
> > coin
> > > out meter has to count up an additional 2,000,000 and that can
> take
> > a
> > > while and it appears that can interfer with some player

tracking

> > > systems
> > > in addition, with modern systems, casinos can set parameters

to

> > catch
> > > fraud and machine malfunction, but they don't always set them
> > > correctly and legitimate play gets diverted and probably
"regular"
> > > players get red flagged as possible cheats or "advantage" (aka
> > > winning) players
> > > bottom line is that the modern multi-denominational,

multi-game,

> > > multi-bet from 1 to 250 credits, multi-play, ticket-in
ticket-out,
> > > random bonuses, and player tracking systems are very complex

and

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "al55442" <al55442@c...> wrote:
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vp1000mph" <1000mph@m...> wrote:
> > > sometimes don't work correctly, generally not to the player's
> > > advantage
> > >
> > > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "al55442" <al55442@c...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > The spinning meter you hear is a mechanical counter that
> > > > increments credits paid. So if you hit a royal it will
> > > > click 4000 times. This has nothing to do with
> > > > player tracking.
> > > >
> > > >

#11

smells like a buffer overflow problem to me

If the player causes another event that would require
the meters to increment, than another task would be
in the meter que to start as soon as the current one
is done running. The meters could run for days.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000"
<nightoftheiguana2000@y...> wrote:
>
> what if the player quits (pulls card) or tickets out or hits a
> handpay/taxable before the meter task has completed?
> (meters set to pennies generally can't keep up even with normal
dollar
> play)
> what if the player wins a random bonus feature before the meters
have
> caught up to existing play?
> then the player tickets out and pulls card ...
>
> >
> > The pt system would receive the value with one transaction,
> > that same amount is sent to the meter task in the game and
> > that task is responsible for making sure that meter finishes
> > incrementing all values.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Meter reqmnts vary by jurisdiction. No hard meters required at
all
> > in
> > > NJ! Hard meters CAN be set to $1 even if denom goes lower than
$1
> > > (prob the reason for some Acct errors.)
> > > To al55442: I'm curious, how do you know the signal to run the
> > meters
> > > isn't the same signal that is sent to PT system?
> > >
> > > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000"
> > > <nightoftheiguana2000@y...> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > the minimum meters (more like odometers), required by law,

are

> > coin
> > > > in, coin out and coin drop
> > > > if you hit a royal on a standard single denomination

machine,

> the
> > > coin
> > > > out meter will count up an additional 4000
> > > > but for multidenominational machines, there is a problem,
often
> > the
> > > > denomination can be anywhere from $5 to pennies
> > > > the meters have to record the lowest denomination
> > > > hit a $5 royal on a machine that can be set for pennies

means

> the
> > > coin
> > > > out meter has to count up an additional 2,000,000 and that

can

> > take
> > > a
> > > > while and it appears that can interfer with some player
tracking
> > > > systems
> > > > in addition, with modern systems, casinos can set parameters
to
> > > catch
> > > > fraud and machine malfunction, but they don't always set

them

> > > > correctly and legitimate play gets diverted and probably
> "regular"
> > > > players get red flagged as possible cheats or "advantage"

(aka

> > > > winning) players
> > > > bottom line is that the modern multi-denominational,
multi-game,
> > > > multi-bet from 1 to 250 credits, multi-play, ticket-in
> ticket-out,
> > > > random bonuses, and player tracking systems are very complex
and
> > > > sometimes don't work correctly, generally not to the

player's

> > > > advantage
> > > >

wrote:

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "al55442" <al55442@c...> wrote:

> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "al55442" <al55442@c...> wrote:
> > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vp1000mph" <1000mph@m...> wrote:
> > > > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "al55442" <al55442@c...>
> > > > >
> > > > > The spinning meter you hear is a mechanical counter that
> > > > > increments credits paid. So if you hit a royal it will
> > > > > click 4000 times. This has nothing to do with
> > > > > player tracking.
> > > > >
> > > > >

#12

I would say that the tracking machine did indeed have a problem. If
you put 25,000 points on a card in 2.5 hours during the 6x times
points, that would mean you would have had to be playing somewhere
aroung 1666.66 hands an hour BEFORE the mutiplier. That would
definitely cause someone to become suspicious. Unless of course you
were playing 2 machines at once and they were told this and even
then that is very fast (833 hands an hour. I can see it being done
on one machine but not when you are playing 2 machines and have to
analyze a hand (ie DB)
When I am playing anywhere and I notice a problem with the card
reader I will call a change person over (if very few machines are
available and its not real busy) or I just move to a different
machine. I assume you noticed the points accumulating.

As i understand it - since there was a problem with the tracking -
they are not required to credit you for this. I may be wrong but I
certainly would never expect them to give me that many points if I
really had not earned them.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rockofjello333"

<rockofjello333@y...>

wrote:
snip...
because they somehow couldn't believe that anyone
> could put on 25,000 points in 2 1/2 hours, so they looked at the
> machine and concluded that there was a "runaway meter" because
> the "battery was low", and that the machine had been putting

points

> on my card far in excess of my play!! BATTERY??? WHAT F-in
battery?
> Don't these machines use good ol' 110 volts ee-leck-trick-ity?
…snip

Ha, this is interesting. Sometimes, as i walk through a casino,
usually late at night, I'll here a machine with a spinning meter.
D'ya think if I slip my card in for awhile I'll get some free pts?
Wish I knew more about player tracking software.

BTW: a low battery (a backup on the processor board for the RAM)

will

cause a hard tilt, rendering the game unplayable. Never heard of

it

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vp1000mph" <1000mph@m...> wrote:

spinning the meters.

#13

I would say that the tracking machine did indeed have a problem.

If

you put 25,000 points on a card in 2.5 hours during the 6x times
points, that would mean you would have had to be playing somewhere
aroung 1666.66 hands an hour BEFORE the mutiplier.

That's true if I had been playing single-line, but you're forgetting
something. I was playing Triple-Play and five-Play for dollar
denoms, as well as some triple-play $2. 10,000 points/hour on triple
play dollars 1s 666 hands/hour. 10,000 points/hour on five-play is
400 hands/hour. On $2 triple-play, it would be 333 hands/hour. None
of these figures is unreasonable.

When I am playing anywhere and I notice a problem with the card
reader I will call a change person over (if very few machines are
available and its not real busy) or I just move to a different
machine. I assume you noticed the points accumulating.

Yes, and the reader reported the bonus points as well, and my day-
end total of 235,000+ points. That's why I was so surprised when the
slot club boothling told me I had only earned 8,000 points that day!

As i understand it - since there was a problem with the tracking -
they are not required to credit you for this. I may be wrong but

I certainly would never expect them to give me that many points if I

really had not earned them.

Wait a minute! If there WAS a "problem with the tracking", why
WOULDN'T they be obligated to correct the error? And why would
I "really not have earned them", if that was the case?

To repeat, I played between $25-$30 a hand, at a speed of at LEAST
400 hands/hr, for 2 1/2 hours. I should have then received a 6X
bonus points multiplier. YOU do the math and determine which was
fairer, the 235,000 I actually earned, or the 91,000 they eventually
gave me.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "missdeuces" <missdeuces@y...> wrote:

#14

Sorry. I did not catch that you were playing more than a single
line machine. I can understand why you feel as though you were
being ripped off. I have not had such an experience at Sams Town.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rockofjello333"
<rockofjello333@y...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "missdeuces" <missdeuces@y...>

wrote:

>
> I would say that the tracking machine did indeed have a

problem.

If
> you put 25,000 points on a card in 2.5 hours during the 6x times
> points, that would mean you would have had to be playing

somewhere

> aroung 1666.66 hands an hour BEFORE the mutiplier.

That's true if I had been playing single-line, but you're

forgetting

something. I was playing Triple-Play and five-Play for dollar
denoms, as well as some triple-play $2. 10,000 points/hour on

triple

play dollars 1s 666 hands/hour. 10,000 points/hour on five-play is
400 hands/hour. On $2 triple-play, it would be 333 hands/hour.

None

of these figures is unreasonable.

> When I am playing anywhere and I notice a problem with the card
> reader I will call a change person over (if very few machines

are

> available and its not real busy) or I just move to a different
> machine. I assume you noticed the points accumulating.

Yes, and the reader reported the bonus points as well, and my day-
end total of 235,000+ points. That's why I was so surprised when

the

slot club boothling told me I had only earned 8,000 points that

day!

>
> As i understand it - since there was a problem with the

tracking -

> they are not required to credit you for this. I may be wrong

but

I certainly would never expect them to give me that many points if

I

> really had not earned them.

Wait a minute! If there WAS a "problem with the tracking", why
WOULDN'T they be obligated to correct the error? And why would
I "really not have earned them", if that was the case?

To repeat, I played between $25-$30 a hand, at a speed of at LEAST
400 hands/hr, for 2 1/2 hours. I should have then received a 6X
bonus points multiplier. YOU do the math and determine which was
fairer, the 235,000 I actually earned, or the 91,000 they

eventually

···

gave me.
>
>

#15

I PLAY AT SAMS TOWN USALLY 4X A WEEK ,and have always gotten my points 6x or whatever

Sorry. I did not catch that you were playing more than a single
line machine. I can understand why you feel as though you were
being ripped off. I have not had such an experience at Sams Town.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rockofjello333"
<rockofjello333@y...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "missdeuces" <missdeuces@y...>

wrote:

>
> I would say that the tracking machine did indeed have a

problem.

If
> you put 25,000 points on a card in 2.5 hours during the 6x times
> points, that would mean you would have had to be playing

somewhere

> aroung 1666.66 hands an hour BEFORE the mutiplier.

That's true if I had been playing single-line, but you're

forgetting

something. I was playing Triple-Play and five-Play for dollar
denoms, as well as some triple-play $2. 10,000 points/hour on

triple

play dollars 1s 666 hands/hour. 10,000 points/hour on five-play is
400 hands/hour. On $2 triple-play, it would be 333 hands/hour.

None

of these figures is unreasonable.

> When I am playing anywhere and I notice a problem with the card
> reader I will call a change person over (if very few machines

are

> available and its not real busy) or I just move to a different
> machine. I assume you noticed the points accumulating.

Yes, and the reader reported the bonus points as well, and my day-
end total of 235,000+ points. That's why I was so surprised when

the

slot club boothling told me I had only earned 8,000 points that

day!

>
> As i understand it - since there was a problem with the

tracking -

> they are not required to credit you for this. I may be wrong

but

I certainly would never expect them to give me that many points if

I

> really had not earned them.

Wait a minute! If there WAS a "problem with the tracking", why
WOULDN'T they be obligated to correct the error? And why would
I "really not have earned them", if that was the case?

To repeat, I played between $25-$30 a hand, at a speed of at LEAST
400 hands/hr, for 2 1/2 hours. I should have then received a 6X
bonus points multiplier. YOU do the math and determine which was
fairer, the 235,000 I actually earned, or the 91,000 they

eventually

gave me.
>
>

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT

···

missdeuces <missdeuces@yahoo.com> wrote:

---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#16

points 6x or whatever

This seems to only be happening to players who play the highest
denomination VP machines, i.e. $5 single-line or $1/$2 multiliners.

If you play .25, I don't think it would be worth their effort to rob
you. Which is the only reason it doesn't happen, I'm sure.

May this place be the next Ground Zero!

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, gene scheel <clevgs@y...> wrote:

I PLAY AT SAMS TOWN USALLY 4X A WEEK ,and have always gotten my

#17

I sure hope not as i might be there and dont think that is a nice thing to say or at least in very poor taste

I PLAY AT SAMS TOWN USALLY 4X A WEEK ,and have always gotten my

points 6x or whatever

This seems to only be happening to players who play the highest
denomination VP machines, i.e. $5 single-line or $1/$2 multiliners.

If you play .25, I don't think it would be worth their effort to rob
you. Which is the only reason it doesn't happen, I'm sure.

May this place be the next Ground Zero!

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT

···

rockofjello333 <rockofjello333@yahoo.com> wrote:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, gene scheel <clevgs@y...> wrote:

---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links

   To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREE/
  
   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vpFREE-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
  
   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#18

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rockofjello333" <rockofjello333@y...>
wrote:

> I PLAY AT SAMS TOWN USALLY 4X A WEEK ,and have always gotten my
points 6x or whatever

This seems to only be happening to players who play the highest
denomination VP machines, i.e. $5 single-line or $1/$2 multiliners.

If you play .25, I don't think it would be worth their effort to

rob

you. Which is the only reason it doesn't happen, I'm sure.

I play (primarily quarters single-line) at Sam's town. Have noticed
that "multiple points" do not become visible during play, but only
after removing and re-inserting card. In my experience, recording
and multiplying has always been done correctly.

It seems "illogical" that management would intentionally miscalculate
points on higher-denomination machines. Even with perfect play--and
considering the value of points--these tend to have a significantly
negative ER. Potential legal problems aside, why risk antagonizing
higher-dollar customers?

May this place be the next Ground Zero!

In a way, this DOES raise a valid point. Casino layouts tend to be--
probably by design--rather confusing. It IS a good idea, especially
on machines which one plays with any degree of frequency, to locate
the nearest exit and verify that it actually leads to the outside.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, gene scheel <clevgs@y...> wrote: