vpFREE2 Forums

Sahara Update

vpFREE Administrator wrote:

If the outing of an attractive play on vpFREE hastens its demise,
so be it. Protecting a play for the exclusive benefit of a very
limited number of participants is contrary to the best interests
of all non-participants.

Harry Porter replied:

There are fine lines with this subject, and certainly no absolutes.
While I'm not in agreement with the full extent of the "Sunshine"
policy, I respect it.

I'll offer the following considerations:

-- Any act that aspires to expand participation but instead promptly
kills it for all concerned isn't desirable.

-- There is some information that's best shared via the grapevine
rather than generally broadcast.

If your "considerations" are from the perspective of individual
members who are protecting a non-public play, then we're
on the same page.

Individual members are expected to be guided by what they
perceive to be their own best interests when deciding to
share, or not share, non-public information.

OTOH, vpFREE is guided by what it perceives to be the best
interests of the video poker community as a whole, and
publicizes ALL available information about better video poker
games.

vpFREE Administrator

> vpFREE Administrator wrote:
>> If the outing of an attractive play on vpFREE hastens its demise,
>> so be it. Protecting a play for the exclusive benefit of a very
>> limited number of participants is contrary to the best interests
>> of all non-participants.

Harry Porter replied:
> There are fine lines with this subject, and certainly no absolutes.
> While I'm not in agreement with the full extent of the "Sunshine"
> policy, I respect it.

> I'll offer the following considerations:

> -- Any act that aspires to expand participation but instead
> promptly kills it for all concerned isn't desirable.

> -- There is some information that's best shared via the grapevine
> rather than generally broadcast.

vpFREE Administrator wrote:

If your "considerations" are from the perspective of individual
members who are protecting a non-public play, then we're
on the same page.

Individual members are expected to be guided by what they
perceive to be their own best interests when deciding to
share, or not share, non-public information.

OTOH, vpFREE is guided by what it perceives to be the best
interests of the video poker community as a whole, and
publicizes ALL available information about better video poker
games.

On the whole I find vpFREE admin (VPA) approach to plays reasonable.
But there are exceptional circumstances in which it's ill-conceived.

An example is a play that's reasonably identifiable as a management
mistake -- whrere it's a safe presumption that were it brought to mgt
attention, it would be killed. In such an instance, there's strong
reason in insert discretion ... including avoiding open discussion in
favor of avenues such as the "grapevine" of members who interact
privately in some form. (The rationale for this goes well beyond
averting casino "eavesdropping".)

Re "eavesdropping", a post occasionally aruges management knows
exactly what's on the floor. Experienced players here can cite ample
occasions that show this to be mistaken.

Admittedly, it can be difficult to distinguish an unintentional
offering on the casino floor. But there are flags. One is where
benefits on the game (cb, comps, or other) are distinctly out of line
from casino normal practice. Given such a flag, discussion should be
restrained. And if you don't know for sure from observation whether
benefits are in line, it's best to hold off until it's been ascertained.

I'm not necessarily talking about situations where the casino is
"giving away the house". It applies to strong "recreational" plays
(weak negative expectation) that exist in an otherwise dearth of such
machines.

···

------

I don't mean to lecture here ... I just want to be explicitly clear.
I'll offer up that I can be seen as bordering on sanctimonious,
self-righteous, etc on this subject. I acknowledge some will disagree
with what I suggest and they're within their rights. But I find I
make a strong case and it merits strong expression.

------

Having said this much, my take on VPA role in this is that the
Sunshine Policy (in essence: "all better vp games of which it is aware
will be shared" with an implicit addition that members are
encouraged/expected to share such plays with the group/VPA as well) is
ill-advised.

A measure of filtering and restraint should be introduced when there's
reason to suspect a game isn't intentionally offered, or benefits have
been set stronger than intended. And it's to be recognized that there
are more discrete alternatives by which members can keep themselves
abreast (notably "grapevine"), that are readily accessible via the
group when a member exerts something more than passive participation,
so that it's inappropriate to view this as suppression or censorship
-- merely appropriate redirection.

It would be helpful for the VPA to occasionally advise members on how
they can more effectively avail themselves of existing grapevine
opportunities. (I've suggested some in a previous post.)

- Harry

{snip, snip, snip}

It would be helpful for the VPA to occasionally advise
members on how they can more effectively avail themselves
of existing grapevine opportunities. (I've suggested
some in a previous post.)

- Harry

I picture someone winking and furtively asking:
"Are you a friend of Harry?" :slight_smile:

worldbefree22001 wrote:

{snip, snip, snip}

> It would be helpful for the VPA to occasionally advise
> members on how they can more effectively avail themselves
> of existing grapevine opportunities. (I've suggested
> some in a previous post.)
>
> - Harry

I picture someone winking and furtively asking:
"Are you a friend of Harry?" :slight_smile:

Anyone who has a clue about discretion knows you'd ask, "Are you a FOH?"

- H.

worldbefree22001 wrote

I picture someone winking and furtively asking:
"Are you a friend of Harry?" :slight_smile:

*head slap* I'm slow on the uptake again ... we're talking an
allusion to "Dorothy", right?

- H.

I'm not sure who Dorothy is, but I'm sure there are more than a
few "friend of X" style codes out there. I remember seeing planners on
cruises that would have "Friends of Bill W." time slots, which I
believe means AA. I didn't stop by to find out as I felt it would be
disrespectful considering I am usually drunk 24/7 while on a cruise.
I've also heard "friend of Tom" being used to refer to a Scientologist
(have a feeling that phrase is used only by non-Scientologists
though). "Friend of Leslie" being used to describe a woman of
alternate sexual preference, et al...

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@...> wrote:

*head slap* I'm slow on the uptake again ... we're talking an
allusion to "Dorothy", right?

- H.

>
> *head slap* I'm slow on the uptake again ... we're talking an
> allusion to "Dorothy", right?
>
> - H.
>

Poke gimp replied

I'm not sure who Dorothy is, but I'm sure there are more
than a few "friend of X" style codes out there. I remember
seeing planners on cruises that would have "Friends of Bill
W." time slots, which I believe means AA.

The original intent was a bit a nod to friends of Bill
(Clinton or W). No insult was intended I was trying to
be cute about the grapevine thing. I think I won't post
for a bit. Good luck all!

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "worldbefree22001" <krajewski.sa@...>
wrote:

The original intent was a bit a nod to friends of Bill
(Clinton or W). No insult was intended I was trying to
be cute about the grapevine thing. I think I won't post
for a bit. Good luck all!

I certainly didn't perceive any insult, and I doubt that anyone else
did. If you decide not to post for a bit I certainly hope that
decision is not based on mistakenly thinking that you offended anyone.
Surely, my post in reply with remarks about lesbianism and unabated
intoxication was more offensive than any posts prior to it :wink:

Harry Porter wrote:

> > *head slap* I'm slow on the uptake again ... we're talking an
> > allusion to "Dorothy", right?

>>> Poke gimp replied
> I'm not sure who Dorothy is, but I'm sure there are more
> than a few "friend of X" style codes out there. I remember
> seeing planners on cruises that would have "Friends of Bill
> W." time slots, which I believe means AA.

worldbefree22001 wrote:

The original intent was a bit a nod to friends of Bill
(Clinton or W). No insult was intended I was trying to
be cute about the grapevine thing. I think I won't post
for a bit. Good luck all!

No insult taken -- the "FOB" nod was witty (of course, wit dries up a
bit when it has to be dissected for someone. Flew over my head on
first take ... as I said, I can be pretty slow :wink: No need to duck out.

FWIW, a "FOD" nod would have been equally witty, albeit a little
twisted :wink:

- H.