vpFREE2 Forums

Sahara Update

#1

See FAQ #60 (and sub sections) "http://members.cox.net/vpfree/FAQ.htm#60"
for vpFREE's policy on information sharing.

vpFREE believes that the free and open exchange of information is vital
and beneficial to the video poker community as a whole, and is dedicated
to sharing, promoting and preserving all attractive games that can survive
and prosper in an open market environment.

If the outing of an attractive play on vpFREE hastens its demise, so be it.
Protecting a play for the exclusive benefit of a very limited number of
participants is contrary to the best interests of all non-participants.

vpFREE Administrator

···

On 20 May 2008 at 1:15, paladingamingllc wrote:

Some of you have understood the intent of my aggravation here. It's
all about access. If a play is too good, and Sahara v1.0 was IMHO,
it's going to get burned down, and quite frequently there will be team
play. These people offer nothing to VPFree, all they do is take and
not give, and I don't understand why you should facilitate or support
such behaviour.

I've had this running debate with Administration over this issue, and
while I'll respect his wishes and not discuss/criticze the Sunshine
policy here, IMHO it just verifies my position. I think we're well
past the point where we can discuss positive plays, the target group
for the information just almost never gets access to it.

#2

vpFREE Administrator wrote:

If the outing of an attractive play on vpFREE hastens its demise, so
be it.
Protecting a play for the exclusive benefit of a very limited number
of participants is contrary to the best interests of all
non-participants.

There are fine lines with this subject, and certainly no absolutes.
While I'm not in agreement with the full extent of the "Sunshine"
policy, I respect it.

I'll offer the following considerations:

-- Any act that aspires to expand participation but instead promptly
kills it for all concerned isn't desirable.

-- There is some information that's best shared via the grapevine
rather than generally broadcast.

On the latter comment, some people complain that "the grapevine" is
restricted to a privileged few. I don't have much empathy for the
sentiment.

The vp community is one of the most willing to share intelligence and
goodwill -- sometimes tripping over themselves to clue another player
in. To put it simply, if you're a modestly astute, odds are you
frequently play next to someone with useful information to share -- in
aggregate, there's an abundance of choice information at hand that
overwhelms that shared here. And this forum offers ample opportunity
to connect privately with other players who share sensibilities common
to yours.

To share in that bounty: Be congenial, good company. Exhibit
courtesy and common sense. Demonstrate you'll intelligently benefit
from the information, with discrimination. Offer an indication that
you're anxious to share in return (with some, they'll always be onto
anything you might later catch win of, but they'll appreciate the
willingness).

The grapevine intrinsically incorporates a filter that benefits
conscientious casual players vs an indiscriminate airing here. It's
hardly necessary when inventorying 9/6 Jacks machines, or quarter
FPDW. But on many other prime offerings, there's merit.

- Harry

#3

I hear the complaints about the pros and teams ruining the good offerings by hogging them. So, why don't the casinos 86 the problems away, as they do in BJ?

> Some of you have understood the intent of my aggravation here. It's
> all about access. If a play is too good, and Sahara v1.0 was IMHO,
> it's going to get burned down, and quite frequently there will be team
> play. These people offer nothing to VPFree, all they do is take and
> not give, and I don't understand why you should facilitate or support
> such behaviour.
  
> I've had this running debate with Administration over this issue, and
> while I'll respect his wishes and not discuss/criticze the Sunshine
> policy here, IMHO it just verifies my position. I think we're well
> past the point where we can discuss positive plays, the target group
> for the information just almost never gets access to it.

See FAQ #60 (and sub sections) "http://members.cox.net/vpfree/FAQ.htm#60"
for vpFREE's policy on information sharing.

vpFREE believes that the free and open exchange of information is vital
and beneficial to the video poker community as a whole, and is dedicated
to sharing, promoting and preserving all attractive games that can survive
and prosper in an open market environment.

If the outing of an attractive play on vpFREE hastens its demise, so be it.
Protecting a play for the exclusive benefit of a very limited number of
participants is contrary to the best interests of all non-participants.

vpFREE Administrator

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

···

vpFREE Administrator <vp_free@yahoo.com> wrote: On 20 May 2008 at 1:15, paladingamingllc wrote:

#4

  I hear the complaints about the pros and teams ruining the good

offerings by hogging them. So, why don't the casinos 86 the problems
away, as they do in BJ?

This is a very good question, and we could probably have a long thread
about just this subject. Casinos do occasionally 86 winning VP
players, but not anywhere near as often as winning BJ players. Why is
that? The short answer is that it's often much easier for the casino
to simply make the technical changes necessary (i.e. change the
paytable, change the promotion, etc.) to remove the profit potential
from the game. This eliminates the threat from both the current crop
of pros playing that particular game, and also from any future players
who might have discovered the play, plus the casino avoids the
confrontation involved in throwing out some of their customers.

For good or bad, the general public seems to accept the fact that
casinos can and will toss out blackjack card counters as a standard
business practice. I just don't think that the general public has the
same acceptance of casinos tossing out winning slot or video machine
players. Just look at all the bad publicity and ill will generated
when Greektown tossed out a number of VP players several years ago.

EE

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Jim Madeley <jm002546@...> wrote:

#5

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@...>
wrote:

I'll offer the following considerations:

-- Any act that aspires to expand participation but instead promptly
kills it for all concerned isn't desirable...

- Harry

Harry,

I learned my lesson on this a year or so back. Sign me on as agreeing
with you.

I also noted from an earlier post that you said:

Whatever the perspective on the subject, I very much favor an acid
test that was, in essence, put forth by Paladin a short while ago:

If

there's a good play that you're bankrolled for and actively play,

it's

your business if you choose to bandy it about to others.

I agree with that too -- although I no longer report outstanding
plays that I'm participating in when they are clearly the result of a
casino error.

Mac
www.CasinoCamper.com

#6

I have to agree with the administrator here. The sunshine policy is necessary. This doesn't mean the second u see a good play that u run to a computer and post it. But the attitude of everything for me,me,me doesn't belong when it comes to decent plays. If the play is so good as you can see it won't last but all should get the opportunity.Just to show that I agree with this here here are a few:

Longhorn Casino (Boulder Highway, bus #107 to Harmon and Boulder)
2 FPDW -this is already known but they have up to 5X's cash back in May and they give 0.2

Cal (Downtown, any bus to DTC) for some reason this isn't mentioned in the
listing.

2 $1/$2/$5 Triple Play NSUD about 10 m east of the slot club booth -if you are regular and get 3X or 4X points offers this plus comps not too bad if u can put up with the volatility - a bank of 50cent/$1.00 machines just up the steps to the west of the snack bar of about 11 machines or so that have 10/7 DB with 1,000 extra coins on a heart royal.Mix this with the 3X and 4X points offers for regulars. Point value 0.1

Quarks (shuttle to DS-9)pays double on full consortium at Davo

> Some of you have understood the intent of my aggravation here. It's
> all about access. If a play is too good, and Sahara v1.0 was IMHO,
> it's going to get burned down, and quite frequently there will be team
> play. These people offer nothing to VPFree, all they do is take and
> not give, and I don't understand why you should facilitate or support
> such behaviour.
  
> I've had this running debate with Administration over this issue, and
> while I'll respect his wishes and not discuss/criticze the Sunshine
> policy here, IMHO it just verifies my position. I think we're well
> past the point where we can discuss positive plays, the target group
> for the information just almost never gets access to it.

See FAQ #60 (and sub sections) "http://members.cox.net/vpfree/FAQ.htm#60"
for vpFREE's policy on information sharing.

vpFREE believes that the free and open exchange of information is vital
and beneficial to the video poker community as a whole, and is dedicated
to sharing, promoting and preserving all attractive games that can survive
and prosper in an open market environment.

If the outing of an attractive play on vpFREE hastens its demise, so be it.
Protecting a play for the exclusive benefit of a very limited number of
participants is contrary to the best interests of all non-participants.

vpFREE Administrator

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

···

vpFREE Administrator <vp_free@yahoo.com> wrote: On 20 May 2008 at 1:15, paladingamingllc wrote:

#7

(having read FAQ 60, secs (b) and (d) in particular)

Again, I respect your wishes not to do administrative threads. That
being said, both quoted sections are IMHO remarkable.

I'm going to have to reiterate my statement regarding access. The
casino business, unfortunately, is at polar opposites with Utopianism.
That's been my near 30 year experience in dealing with them. I have
little interest in feeding parasites, and I was hoping you would too.

Now that some equilibrium has been restored, a better balance of
players can be found on the Sahara multi-lines, although I heard today
of a waiting list created among the players for the FPDW. This I found
amusing. Now I appreciate those who prefer to play a high paying
machine with little back end, but there are likely several dollar
plays in town at least as good, if not better than the FPDW.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, vpFREE Administrator <vp_free@...> wrote:

#8

The mail is terrible at all the Ferengi casinos I've scouted. Ferengis
are prohibited by the Rules of Acquisition to offer bounceback, for
example (Rule #1).

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, pesach kremen <royalflush2222@...> wrote:

Quarks (shuttle to DS-9)pays double on full consortium at Davo

#9

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/3824/rules.html

···

paladingamingllc <paladingamingllc@yahoo.com> wrote: --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, pesach kremen <royalflush2222@...> wrote:

> Quarks (shuttle to DS-9)pays double on full consortium at Davo

The mail is terrible at all the Ferengi casinos I've scouted. Ferengis
are prohibited by the Rules of Acquisition to offer bounceback, for
example (Rule #1).

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#10

The question I think most of us have is how much to tip the people
that have all the information?

dipy911

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@...> wrote:

-- There is some information that's best shared via the grapevine
rather than generally broadcast.

On the latter comment, some people complain that "the grapevine" is
restricted to a privileged few. I don't have much empathy for the
sentiment.