That's the problem with the general public today. They don't feel that rules,
such as expiration dates apply to "them".
It's really very simple. The coupons have expired. If you go to Mac & Dons or
the local grocery store with an expired coupon, I'll bet they won't honor it
either !!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<<That's the problem with the general public today. They don't feel that rules,
such as expiration dates apply to "them".
It's really very simple. The coupons have expired. If you go to Mac & Dons or
the local grocery store with an expired coupon, I'll bet they won't honor it
either !!>>
I don't abuse this - usually do this only if we are out of town - but I do have some casinos where I am a regular player and I can ask someone at the slot club or the host and they will honor expired coupons.
But I would never say, "Please consider honoring this expired coupon as I don't want to play at your casino this month since I don't like your promotion." We certainly can choose to play or not to play, depending on the promotions, but it isn't always wise to verbalize all ones thoughts!
________________________________________
Jean $¢ott - Go to http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
for VP software and strategy cards and for the
Frugal series of books.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<<That's the problem with the general public today. They don't feel that
rules,
such as expiration dates apply to "them".
It's really very simple. The coupons have expired. If you go to Mac &
Dons or
the local grocery store with an expired coupon, I'll bet they won't
honor it
either !!>>
It's not always that cut and dry. There is definitely more latitude
given at a casino then you would find at a grocery store, and often
rightfully so, if you're a good player for them and they want to keep
you. Similar to a discretionary comp, which your grocery store will
never do. Why not ask? It can't hurt. Especially if you're not
demanding or demeaning to those you ask.
Regards,
Scot
I don't think you understand the concept of loyalty or why it is good
for a business to reward it. There's a universe of difference between
a coupon hound that only comes in for a special and the loyal customer
that does business there most of them time. It is very much in the
company's best interests to cut the latter a break on accasion. Not
just because it's the right thing to do, but because it's good
business acumen. That happy customer will promote the business. Your
generalization also failed to account for an important distinction:
most grocery store coupons are not issued by the store, they are
issued by the manufacturer of the product to be redeemed at the store.
Of course the store can't honor such expired coupons, they didn't
issue them and can't be reimbursed after the fact. That's a world of
difference from a store issued coupon which has any loss already built
in and allows the store to make a judgement call at redemption time.
They can choose to split hairs or act as someone who values the repeat
business of a loyal customer.
In the case of a casino whatever coupons they issue are entirely under
their control, there is no 3rd party involved. If a casino issues
coupons that contain errors, ambiguities, are deceptive or tricky, or
are a significant departure from norms they have not just an ethical
obligation to make good but in many cases a legal one as well. In the
case where something was inadvertently done to trip customers up, like
changing the redemption days window from that of prior months, for
that any reputable casino will make good on any problems arising from
expired coupons.
Jean's original post was far from clear, it created the impression
that these folks were otherwise good customers at this casino. Her
subsequent "rebuttal" does nothing to alter this, in fact she mentions
that these people come a long way to get to the casino. Gee, they
sound like pretty good customers to me. My pertinent question of by
how much were the coupons expired was never answered. As far as I can
tell these folks did not commit a grievous sin. The hostility on part
of the "casino executive" was completely unwarranted IMHO. Jean's
"rebuttal" didn't surprise me in any way, other than trying to clarify
her initial post the rest was pretty much what one would expect "The
Queen of Comps" to say. People please, stop being apologists for the
casinos. They are supposedly run by individuals highly educated and
trained in business. They open their doors to a mostly uneducated
public who glibly loses money in record volume all on the casino's
terms. And a casino exec gets bent out of shape over expired coupons?
If you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen!
That's the problem with the general public today. They don't feel
that rules,
such as expiration dates apply to "them".
It's really very simple. The coupons have expired. If you go to Mac
& Dons or
the local grocery store with an expired coupon, I'll bet they won't
honor it
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, VALOHA2@A... wrote:
either !!
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
vp_nbi wrote:
Jean's original post was far from clear, it created the impression
that these folks were otherwise good customers at this casino. Her
subsequent "rebuttal" does nothing to alter this, in fact she
mentions that these people come a long way to get to the casino.
Gee, they sound like pretty good customers to me. My pertinent
question of by how much were the coupons expired was never answered.
As far as I can tell these folks did not commit a grievous sin. The
hostility on part of the "casino executive" was completely
unwarranted IMHO.
I think there was a little more made of Jean's tale of this couple
(mostly by others) than intended. It was merely cited as an example
where a player could have been a little more politic in seeking out a
favor (honoring expired bounceback). Jean's general statement was
that many "advantage" players could be a lot more low-key and sociable
in their dealings with casinos and that better behavior might go a
long ways in giving strong players a better rep with casino personnel.
In this case, the "A" response when asked why they hadn't played
lately might have been, "Well, we've decided to take a little break
from play" or, perhaps, "We're not playing quite as much lately and
have decided to test the waters elsewhere just for a little variety"
-- either comment best followed by, "But we're starting to miss this
place already".
Either of these replies might suggest that past promotions have
created at least a modicum of affinity on their part for the casino
and carry a sense of goodwill.
Instead, their reply was essentially, "Well, you're not giving us
anything extra today". There's no denying the truth of that
statement. But it's not a reply I'd choose to throw in the face of
someone who I've asked to honor an expired coupon.
- Harry
<<That's the problem with the general public today. They don't feel
that rules,
such as expiration dates apply to "them".
It's really very simple. The coupons have expired. If you go to Mac
& Dons or
the local grocery store with an expired coupon, I'll bet they won't
honor it
either !!>>
I don't abuse this - usually do this only if we are out of town -
but I do have some casinos where I am a regular player and I can ask
someone at the slot club or the host and they will honor expired coupons.
But I would never say, "Please consider honoring this expired coupon
as I don't want to play at your casino this month since I don't like
your promotion." We certainly can choose to play or not to play,
depending on the promotions, but it isn't always wise to verbalize all
ones thoughts!
A few points of clarification might be appropriate:
1. You didn't actually hear the conversation between "Mrs. D" and the
host yourself.
2. Anything a host told you may have been altered or embellished,
especially since you're a well known vp writer.
3. The host that informed you of this appears not to be the one that
participated in the coupon conversation. He/she may have
unintentionally omitted something in trying to relay the conversation
verbatim.
4. The conversation as you represent it in this post is not the same
as in your initial post. I'm not nitpicking, the flow of that
conversation could have played a large role in shaping subsequent
positions. I'm sure most would recognize the difference between Mrs.
D. walking in, pounding her fist on a table with "damn it, you're
gonna honor these coupons. And if you don't like it...." vs. a more
congenial approach "could you please help on a coupon issue?". I'd
guess it was probably something leaning more towards the latter that
lost something in the translation along the way.
The fact that they didn't play that month to me is a nonsequitor, it
has nothing to do with the coupon expiration issue, in fact it
suggests that this casino has questionable integrity if trying to link
unrelated issues together. Articulating why they weren't playing that
month when asked point blank doesn't strike me as breach of
sensibility neither. The host shouldn't put people on the spot if
he/she might not like the answer to their pointed question.
Your "rebuttal" wasn't really a rebuttal but rather an attempt at
clarification. Unfortunately it failed at that for me. Your comment
about these folks coming a long way to the casino isn't consistent
with trying to portray the host's outrage as justified. The basic gist
of your rebuttal seems to be it's important to get along with people,
even those employed by the casinos. I completely agree, but this is
not mutually exclusive with a 2-way business protocol between casino
and patron. A lot of casinos seem to have forgotten an old adage or
maybe they never knew it in the first place "the customer is king".
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jean Scott" <QueenofComps@f...> wrote:
________________________________________
Jean $¢ott - Go to http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
for VP software and strategy cards and for the
Frugal series of books.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
vp_nbi wrote:
> Jean's original post was far from clear, it created the impression
> that these folks were otherwise good customers at this casino. Her
> subsequent "rebuttal" does nothing to alter this, in fact she
> mentions that these people come a long way to get to the casino.
> Gee, they sound like pretty good customers to me. My pertinent
> question of by how much were the coupons expired was never answered.
> As far as I can tell these folks did not commit a grievous sin. The
> hostility on part of the "casino executive" was completely
> unwarranted IMHO.I think there was a little more made of Jean's tale of this couple
(mostly by others) than intended. It was merely cited as an example
where a player could have been a little more politic in seeking out a
favor (honoring expired bounceback). Jean's general statement was
that many "advantage" players could be a lot more low-key and sociable
in their dealings with casinos and that better behavior might go a
long ways in giving strong players a better rep with casino personnel.In this case, the "A" response when asked why they hadn't played
lately might have been, "Well, we've decided to take a little break
from play" or, perhaps, "We're not playing quite as much lately and
have decided to test the waters elsewhere just for a little variety"
-- either comment best followed by, "But we're starting to miss this
place already".Either of these replies might suggest that past promotions have
created at least a modicum of affinity on their part for the casino
and carry a sense of goodwill.Instead, their reply was essentially, "Well, you're not giving us
anything extra today". There's no denying the truth of that
statement. But it's not a reply I'd choose to throw in the face of
someone who I've asked to honor an expired coupon.
Although reasonable I disagree with this. If I as a loyal patron
politely ask for a break on coupons which were just slightly expired
and got a pointed and possibly brusque response like "how come you're
not playing this month?" I'd be sorely tempted to say something like
"wtf does that have to do with what I just asked about??" but would
restrain myself to something less colorful but still to the point. The
person that we should expect to have the people skills in the Mrs. D.
scenario is the host. Maybe it would be nice if everyone shmoozes with
you when they want something, but not everyone will. Deal with it,
it's part of the job.
vp_nbi wrote:
Maybe it would be nice if everyone shmoozes with
you when they want something, but not everyone will. Deal with it,
it's part of the job.
I've no way of knowing, but I have my doubts about just how much your
hosts' eyes light up when they see you coming ;).
- H.
in the casino business the whale (aka high rolling loser) is king
those making money off the casino (aka parasites) are only valuable to
the extent they attract whales or average (aka losing) players
the parasites (winners) are just like promotions, they cost the casino
money, they can only be justified if they generate more revenue than
they cost (which they often do)
the parasites (i include myself in this group) would do well to keep
this in mind, keep a low profile, play dumb, don't insult people,
don't overplay good plays, etc., if they desire to continue their
parasitic relationship
one of the keys to success is to get in the game
get banned and you're out of the game
there's no honor to getting banned, in fact it's just plain stupid
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vp_nbi" <nbi@w...> wrote:
A lot of casinos seem to have forgotten an old adage or
maybe they never knew it in the first place "the customer is king".
one more point, a host isn't a servant though at times they pretend to
be, in reality they are more like a used car salesman, their job is to
move money from your account to the casino's account while enticing
you with around a percent or so of your action back in overpriced
comps. in the past hosts haven't been too bright, but they're getting
much better at distinquishing good customers (losers) from bad
customers (winners) using better software and consulting with the
likes of compton-dancer etc. if your intention is to reverse the cat
and mouse game and move money from the casino's account to your
account you would do well to pretend you are actually hosting the host
(because you are). the more you can make it look to the host like
you're a loser, the better service you will get and the more polite
and charming and clueless you act with your host the better service,
etc. tell the host that your intention is to move money from the
casino account to yours and you probably wont get far in today's game.
every year casinos are getting tougher at customer rating, get on the
wrong side of that rating and you're out of the game
see my point?
if you're a loser, go ahead and abuse your host all you want, after
all you are paying their salary not to mention paying for that new
casino expansion project, etc.
if you're a winner, better use your best moves on that host, the cat
doesn't enjoy finding out it's the mouse when playing cat and mouse
games
(but don't ask me, ask maggy the cat)
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vp_nbi" <nbi@w...> wrote:
The host shouldn't put people on the spot if
he/she might not like the answer to their pointed question.