Rude players

[billkennedy3]

Was at Mohegan Sun yesterday afternoon/evening. I used to play extremely regularly, but since the point downgrade & other MS changes, my play at the Sun is pretty infrequent. I visit maybe 3-4 times a year now, mainly for fun with friends.

I was absolutely shocked at the state of the Pick 'Em room. It was never uncommon to have to wait a few minutes for a machine in the past, but yesterday was ridiculous - and to me it seemed that the situation was 100% created by a handful of very rude people that never learned how to share.

When I arrived, there were already several people that were clearly waiting for a machine. Of the 20 full-pay PE machines in the room, I took note of how the machines were being utilized while I waited:

8 machines had legitimate players actively playing them
4 (!) machines had been disabled at a player's request so that nobody could play them while they were gone
5 machines had an empty seat, but were being "saved" by a nearby player for somebody that was "coming right back"
3 machines were being "played" by somebody that was already playing another machine (more on this below)

I was there for over three hours. All 4 of the disabled machines remained locked for the entire duration that I was there, and an additional machine was locked down by a player about an hour before I left. Of the seats that were being "saved" for people that were "coming right back" - I think 1 of them actually had a player in it when I checked 15 minutes later. Two of the seats were still vacant when I left three hours later, yet the players next to the empty chairs kept telling others that they couldn't use them, because somebody was playing on those machines and they would "be right back".

The three people that were playing 2 machines at once were probably the worst. I use "playing" lightly, because all of these people were playing less hands/hour than most of the people that only had a single machine. I know PE deals slowly, and many people can play 2 machines at full speed simultaneously (eg: by having 1 machine deal while they draw on the other machine), but these people would fully play 1 hand on 1 machine, then turn to the other machine and play a hand on that one. The machine they were not facing was simply sitting idle.

One rude woman would play 20-30 hands on the machine that she was sitting at (quite slowly, I might add), then maybe 1-2 hands at the machine to her left, then repeat. I assumed that this was her way of saving the machine to her left, but she eventually cashed out of both machines and left. While she was there, several people asked her if the machine to her left was open, and each time she (very rudely) told them that both of the machines were hers.

I did end up getting a machine after waiting about 20 minutes. During that time, I had a "helpful" gentleman tell me "you know, if you want to play Pick 'Em, there is another bank behind this one" (meaning the short-pay machines). It was obvious that this guy was a regular as he was talking to everyone else (indeed, it seemed that nearly EVERYONE that was playing was part of the same clique), so I'm sure he knew the difference.

My point is that of the 20 full-pay machines in the room, more than half were sitting idle while several people were waiting to play. There ARE enough machines for everyone - they're being artificially limited due to the extreme selfishness of a few individuals.

I don't understand why people are going to such extreme & antisocial lengths to selfishly prevent others from playing. Back in the day when PE really was a good deal at MS (eg: $90 coin-in for 1 point, you could exchange points for gift cards, no ridiculous hand-pays on quads, etc), I NEVER had to wait more than 2-3 minutes for a machine. I'd see mostly the same faces every weekend I was there (I don't see any of the old regulars anymore; I assume they mostly moved on when I did), but I never saw anyone locking down machines or blatantly lying to "reserve" machines, or simply prevent others from playing.

Now that PE has been reduced to maybe a $8/hour play at best, people are being jerks to ensure that only they get to play it? I don't understand it.

[mel3dmd]

I don't play pickum much anymore but every once in a while I will play them. About 3 months ago I had the same problem with a woman playing two machines when there were no others open. I asked her to let me play it but she acted like she couldn't understand english which ticked me off. I have been told by my host that if this scenario occurs I should call a slot attendant and have them talk to the player. If that doesn't work get a surpervisor and as a last resort call her and she would take care of it. If all the machines are taken and someone is playing two of them the casino will act on it. The slot person spoke to the woman who quickly learned how to speak english and removed her money for the machine so I could play it.
Mel

···

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "William" <billkennedy3@...> wrote:

Was at Mohegan Sun yesterday afternoon/evening. I used to play extremely regularly, but since the point downgrade & other MS changes, my play at the Sun is pretty infrequent. I visit maybe 3-4 times a year now, mainly for fun with friends.

I was absolutely shocked at the state of the Pick 'Em room. It was never uncommon to have to wait a few minutes for a machine in the past, but yesterday was ridiculous - and to me it seemed that the situation was 100% created by a handful of very rude people that never learned how to share.

When I arrived, there were already several people that were clearly waiting for a machine. Of the 20 full-pay PE machines in the room, I took note of how the machines were being utilized while I waited:

8 machines had legitimate players actively playing them
4 (!) machines had been disabled at a player's request so that nobody could play them while they were gone
5 machines had an empty seat, but were being "saved" by a nearby player for somebody that was "coming right back"
3 machines were being "played" by somebody that was already playing another machine (more on this below)

I was there for over three hours. All 4 of the disabled machines remained locked for the entire duration that I was there, and an additional machine was locked down by a player about an hour before I left. Of the seats that were being "saved" for people that were "coming right back" - I think 1 of them actually had a player in it when I checked 15 minutes later. Two of the seats were still vacant when I left three hours later, yet the players next to the empty chairs kept telling others that they couldn't use them, because somebody was playing on those machines and they would "be right back".

The three people that were playing 2 machines at once were probably the worst. I use "playing" lightly, because all of these people were playing less hands/hour than most of the people that only had a single machine. I know PE deals slowly, and many people can play 2 machines at full speed simultaneously (eg: by having 1 machine deal while they draw on the other machine), but these people would fully play 1 hand on 1 machine, then turn to the other machine and play a hand on that one. The machine they were not facing was simply sitting idle.

One rude woman would play 20-30 hands on the machine that she was sitting at (quite slowly, I might add), then maybe 1-2 hands at the machine to her left, then repeat. I assumed that this was her way of saving the machine to her left, but she eventually cashed out of both machines and left. While she was there, several people asked her if the machine to her left was open, and each time she (very rudely) told them that both of the machines were hers.

I did end up getting a machine after waiting about 20 minutes. During that time, I had a "helpful" gentleman tell me "you know, if you want to play Pick 'Em, there is another bank behind this one" (meaning the short-pay machines). It was obvious that this guy was a regular as he was talking to everyone else (indeed, it seemed that nearly EVERYONE that was playing was part of the same clique), so I'm sure he knew the difference.

My point is that of the 20 full-pay machines in the room, more than half were sitting idle while several people were waiting to play. There ARE enough machines for everyone - they're being artificially limited due to the extreme selfishness of a few individuals.

I don't understand why people are going to such extreme & antisocial lengths to selfishly prevent others from playing. Back in the day when PE really was a good deal at MS (eg: $90 coin-in for 1 point, you could exchange points for gift cards, no ridiculous hand-pays on quads, etc), I NEVER had to wait more than 2-3 minutes for a machine. I'd see mostly the same faces every weekend I was there (I don't see any of the old regulars anymore; I assume they mostly moved on when I did), but I never saw anyone locking down machines or blatantly lying to "reserve" machines, or simply prevent others from playing.

Now that PE has been reduced to maybe a $8/hour play at best, people are being jerks to ensure that only they get to play it? I don't understand it.

[GURU_PERF]

You are exactly right about the crew that infests those machines. And
they are a mangy lot to boot. It makes my skin crawl to even sit down
there. Its bad enough that the machines are so-o-o-o slow, the coin in
is $270 for a point and many of the screens can barely be seen. But to
feel that you need a shower after playing for a few minutes, yuck.

While I've had the occasional good hit on those machines, I avoid them
now. I'd rather play on slightly lower paying machines, where the comp
rate is better, and where, quite frankly, I've had MUCH better success.
Maybe it is just feeling the good vibes, or avoiding the bad ones, but I come up positive on many other machines, without the "Yuck" factor.

Guru

"In theory, there is no difference between theory
and practice. But, in practice, there is." - Yogi Berra

"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is." - Yogi Berra

···

________________________________
From: William <billkennedy3@yahoo.com>
To: vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, May 3, 2010 1:34:50 PM
Subject: [vpFREE_NewEngland] Rude players

Was at Mohegan Sun yesterday afternoon/evening. I used to play extremely regularly, but since the point downgrade & other MS changes, my play at the Sun is pretty infrequent. I visit maybe 3-4 times a year now, mainly for fun with friends.

I was absolutely shocked at the state of the Pick 'Em room. It was never uncommon to have to wait a few minutes for a machine in the past, but yesterday was ridiculous - and to me it seemed that the situation was 100% created by a handful of very rude people that never learned how to share.

When I arrived, there were already several people that were clearly waiting for a machine. Of the 20 full-pay PE machines in the room, I took note of how the machines were being utilized while I waited:

8 machines had legitimate players actively playing them
4 (!) machines had been disabled at a player's request so that nobody could play them while they were gone
5 machines had an empty seat, but were being "saved" by a nearby player for somebody that was "coming right back"
3 machines were being "played" by somebody that was already playing another machine (more on this below)

I was there for over three hours. All 4 of the disabled machines remained locked for the entire duration that I was there, and an additional machine was locked down by a player about an hour before I left. Of the seats that were being "saved" for people that were "coming right back" - I think 1 of them actually had a player in it when I checked 15 minutes later. Two of the seats were still vacant when I left three hours later, yet the players next to the empty chairs kept telling others that they couldn't use them, because somebody was playing on those machines and they would "be right back".

The three people that were playing 2 machines at once were probably the worst. I use "playing" lightly, because all of these people were playing less hands/hour than most of the people that only had a single machine. I know PE deals slowly, and many people can play 2 machines at full speed simultaneously (eg: by having 1 machine deal while they draw on the other machine), but these people would fully play 1 hand on 1 machine, then turn to the other machine and play a hand on that one. The machine they were not facing was simply sitting idle.

One rude woman would play 20-30 hands on the machine that she was sitting at (quite slowly, I might add), then maybe 1-2 hands at the machine to her left, then repeat. I assumed that this was her way of saving the machine to her left, but she eventually cashed out of both machines and left. While she was there, several people asked her if the machine to her left was open, and each time she (very rudely) told them that both of the machines were hers.

I did end up getting a machine after waiting about 20 minutes. During that time, I had a "helpful" gentleman tell me "you know, if you want to play Pick 'Em, there is another bank behind this one" (meaning the short-pay machines). It was obvious that this guy was a regular as he was talking to everyone else (indeed, it seemed that nearly EVERYONE that was playing was part of the same clique), so I'm sure he knew the difference.

My point is that of the 20 full-pay machines in the room, more than half were sitting idle while several people were waiting to play. There ARE enough machines for everyone - they're being artificially limited due to the extreme selfishness of a few individuals.

I don't understand why people are going to such extreme & antisocial lengths to selfishly prevent others from playing.
Now that PE has been reduced to maybe a $8/hour play at best, people are being jerks to ensure that only they get to play it? I don't understand it.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[haaljo_haaljo]

What a thread! Wife and I were there Saturday thru Sunday morning. First time in 3 months. 100 points plus $40 free play plus she had some Chico coupon. Had to pay 50 points for room. Stuff like that lead us to greener pastures outside of New England.

We found seats at the uprights but wife saw two empty seats open up on slants farthest away from those damn wizard of oz slots
She goes to sit at the PE next to this gray haired b****h and was yelled at "This is taken." Sure enough, the woman to her right then sits at the machine on the left. Apparently, she rotated between the two machines without even leaving money or her card in the empty spot. Awhile later, Wife see the two uprights seats are empty again. "HOW MANY TIMES TO I HAVE TO TELL YOU IT'S TAKEN. WHAT THE HELL'S WRONG WITH YOU."
To which my S.O. replies "Your a f*****g bitch" and she goes back to gambling with me at the uprights.

Finally found two open slant tops near other end.
During the next 3 hours wife gets FOUR quads and TWO SF's - ALL Witnessed by the grey haired b****h. We leave PE up $2K.
Ah, that was sweet!

I agree with all the comments and appreciate Mel's information.

I stongly disagree that $8/hour is being earned by these characters. I think it's a negative E.V. -at least -.5% including comps. Essentially you are seeing addictive gamblers paying $10K-$20Kyear to satify the craving.
Funny moments, A gambler would fall aslepp with her finger on the deal button.
Dave in Boston

···

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "William" <billkennedy3@...> wrote:

Was at Mohegan Sun yesterday afternoon/evening. I used to play extremely regularly, but since the point downgrade & other MS changes, my play at the Sun is pretty infrequent. I visit maybe 3-4 times a year now, mainly for fun with friends.

I was absolutely shocked at the state of the Pick 'Em room. It was never uncommon to have to wait a few minutes for a machine in the past, but yesterday was ridiculous - and to me it seemed that the situation was 100% created by a handful of very rude people that never learned how to share.

When I arrived, there were already several people that were clearly waiting for a machine. Of the 20 full-pay PE machines in the room, I took note of how the machines were being utilized while I waited:

8 machines had legitimate players actively playing them
4 (!) machines had been disabled at a player's request so that nobody could play them while they were gone
5 machines had an empty seat, but were being "saved" by a nearby player for somebody that was "coming right back"
3 machines were being "played" by somebody that was already playing another machine (more on this below)

I was there for over three hours. All 4 of the disabled machines remained locked for the entire duration that I was there, and an additional machine was locked down by a player about an hour before I left. Of the seats that were being "saved" for people that were "coming right back" - I think 1 of them actually had a player in it when I checked 15 minutes later. Two of the seats were still vacant when I left three hours later, yet the players next to the empty chairs kept telling others that they couldn't use them, because somebody was playing on those machines and they would "be right back".

The three people that were playing 2 machines at once were probably the worst. I use "playing" lightly, because all of these people were playing less hands/hour than most of the people that only had a single machine. I know PE deals slowly, and many people can play 2 machines at full speed simultaneously (eg: by having 1 machine deal while they draw on the other machine), but these people would fully play 1 hand on 1 machine, then turn to the other machine and play a hand on that one. The machine they were not facing was simply sitting idle.

One rude woman would play 20-30 hands on the machine that she was sitting at (quite slowly, I might add), then maybe 1-2 hands at the machine to her left, then repeat. I assumed that this was her way of saving the machine to her left, but she eventually cashed out of both machines and left. While she was there, several people asked her if the machine to her left was open, and each time she (very rudely) told them that both of the machines were hers.

I did end up getting a machine after waiting about 20 minutes. During that time, I had a "helpful" gentleman tell me "you know, if you want to play Pick 'Em, there is another bank behind this one" (meaning the short-pay machines). It was obvious that this guy was a regular as he was talking to everyone else (indeed, it seemed that nearly EVERYONE that was playing was part of the same clique), so I'm sure he knew the difference.

My point is that of the 20 full-pay machines in the room, more than half were sitting idle while several people were waiting to play. There ARE enough machines for everyone - they're being artificially limited due to the extreme selfishness of a few individuals.

I don't understand why people are going to such extreme & antisocial lengths to selfishly prevent others from playing. Back in the day when PE really was a good deal at MS (eg: $90 coin-in for 1 point, you could exchange points for gift cards, no ridiculous hand-pays on quads, etc), I NEVER had to wait more than 2-3 minutes for a machine. I'd see mostly the same faces every weekend I was there (I don't see any of the old regulars anymore; I assume they mostly moved on when I did), but I never saw anyone locking down machines or blatantly lying to "reserve" machines, or simply prevent others from playing.

Now that PE has been reduced to maybe a $8/hour play at best, people are being jerks to ensure that only they get to play it? I don't understand it.

[chicken2692002]

You should have gone to the slot club and gotten assistance. They are not allowed to play 2 machines at a time when people are waiting. Machines should not be locked up for hours at a time. Of course since these machines are losers for the casino they may well prefer to have them locked up!
Better advice would be to NOT go on weekends-especially the first weekend of the month when SS checks are being cashed.

···

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "William" <billkennedy3@...> wrote:

Was at Mohegan Sun yesterday afternoon/evening. I used to play extremely regularly, but since the point downgrade & other MS changes, my play at the Sun is pretty infrequent. I visit maybe 3-4 times a year now, mainly for fun with friends.

I was absolutely shocked at the state of the Pick 'Em room. It was never uncommon to have to wait a few minutes for a machine in the past, but yesterday was ridiculous - and to me it seemed that the situation was 100% created by a handful of very rude people that never learned how to share.

When I arrived, there were already several people that were clearly waiting for a machine. Of the 20 full-pay PE machines in the room, I took note of how the machines were being utilized while I waited:

8 machines had legitimate players actively playing them
4 (!) machines had been disabled at a player's request so that nobody could play them while they were gone
5 machines had an empty seat, but were being "saved" by a nearby player for somebody that was "coming right back"
3 machines were being "played" by somebody that was already playing another machine (more on this below)

I was there for over three hours. All 4 of the disabled machines remained locked for the entire duration that I was there, and an additional machine was locked down by a player about an hour before I left. Of the seats that were being "saved" for people that were "coming right back" - I think 1 of them actually had a player in it when I checked 15 minutes later. Two of the seats were still vacant when I left three hours later, yet the players next to the empty chairs kept telling others that they couldn't use them, because somebody was playing on those machines and they would "be right back".

The three people that were playing 2 machines at once were probably the worst. I use "playing" lightly, because all of these people were playing less hands/hour than most of the people that only had a single machine. I know PE deals slowly, and many people can play 2 machines at full speed simultaneously (eg: by having 1 machine deal while they draw on the other machine), but these people would fully play 1 hand on 1 machine, then turn to the other machine and play a hand on that one. The machine they were not facing was simply sitting idle.

One rude woman would play 20-30 hands on the machine that she was sitting at (quite slowly, I might add), then maybe 1-2 hands at the machine to her left, then repeat. I assumed that this was her way of saving the machine to her left, but she eventually cashed out of both machines and left. While she was there, several people asked her if the machine to her left was open, and each time she (very rudely) told them that both of the machines were hers.

I did end up getting a machine after waiting about 20 minutes. During that time, I had a "helpful" gentleman tell me "you know, if you want to play Pick 'Em, there is another bank behind this one" (meaning the short-pay machines). It was obvious that this guy was a regular as he was talking to everyone else (indeed, it seemed that nearly EVERYONE that was playing was part of the same clique), so I'm sure he knew the difference.

My point is that of the 20 full-pay machines in the room, more than half were sitting idle while several people were waiting to play. There ARE enough machines for everyone - they're being artificially limited due to the extreme selfishness of a few individuals.

I don't understand why people are going to such extreme & antisocial lengths to selfishly prevent others from playing. Back in the day when PE really was a good deal at MS (eg: $90 coin-in for 1 point, you could exchange points for gift cards, no ridiculous hand-pays on quads, etc), I NEVER had to wait more than 2-3 minutes for a machine. I'd see mostly the same faces every weekend I was there (I don't see any of the old regulars anymore; I assume they mostly moved on when I did), but I never saw anyone locking down machines or blatantly lying to "reserve" machines, or simply prevent others from playing.

Now that PE has been reduced to maybe a $8/hour play at best, people are being jerks to ensure that only they get to play it? I don't understand it.

[Paul_des]

I sympathize with you all and I think it is a very small group of patrons that fall into this category.
I when seeing multiple machines being used will just ask a casino employee to tell them to stop. I have done this on 4 separate occasions only once did a player refuse. She then had to call her supervisor and then she relented and gave me the stare of death. I thought it was funny and just played next to her praying for a royal (to no avail)

···

To: vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com
From: melbedewy1226@hotmail.com
Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 14:01:19 +0000
Subject: [vpFREE_NewEngland] Re: Rude players

      You should have gone to the slot club and gotten assistance. They are not allowed to play 2 machines at a time when people are waiting. Machines should not be locked up for hours at a time. Of course since these machines are losers for the casino they may well prefer to have them locked up!

Better advice would be to NOT go on weekends-especially the first weekend of the month when SS checks are being cashed.

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "William" <billkennedy3@...> wrote:

Was at Mohegan Sun yesterday afternoon/evening. I used to play extremely regularly, but since the point downgrade & other MS changes, my play at the Sun is pretty infrequent. I visit maybe 3-4 times a year now, mainly for fun with friends.

I was absolutely shocked at the state of the Pick 'Em room. It was never uncommon to have to wait a few minutes for a machine in the past, but yesterday was ridiculous - and to me it seemed that the situation was 100% created by a handful of very rude people that never learned how to share.

When I arrived, there were already several people that were clearly waiting for a machine. Of the 20 full-pay PE machines in the room, I took note of how the machines were being utilized while I waited:

8 machines had legitimate players actively playing them

4 (!) machines had been disabled at a player's request so that nobody could play them while they were gone

5 machines had an empty seat, but were being "saved" by a nearby player for somebody that was "coming right back"

3 machines were being "played" by somebody that was already playing another machine (more on this below)

I was there for over three hours. All 4 of the disabled machines remained locked for the entire duration that I was there, and an additional machine was locked down by a player about an hour before I left. Of the seats that were being "saved" for people that were "coming right back" - I think 1 of them actually had a player in it when I checked 15 minutes later. Two of the seats were still vacant when I left three hours later, yet the players next to the empty chairs kept telling others that they couldn't use them, because somebody was playing on those machines and they would "be right back".

The three people that were playing 2 machines at once were probably the worst. I use "playing" lightly, because all of these people were playing less hands/hour than most of the people that only had a single machine. I know PE deals slowly, and many people can play 2 machines at full speed simultaneously (eg: by having 1 machine deal while they draw on the other machine), but these people would fully play 1 hand on 1 machine, then turn to the other machine and play a hand on that one. The machine they were not facing was simply sitting idle.

One rude woman would play 20-30 hands on the machine that she was sitting at (quite slowly, I might add), then maybe 1-2 hands at the machine to her left, then repeat. I assumed that this was her way of saving the machine to her left, but she eventually cashed out of both machines and left. While she was there, several people asked her if the machine to her left was open, and each time she (very rudely) told them that both of the machines were hers.

I did end up getting a machine after waiting about 20 minutes. During that time, I had a "helpful" gentleman tell me "you know, if you want to play Pick 'Em, there is another bank behind this one" (meaning the short-pay machines). It was obvious that this guy was a regular as he was talking to everyone else (indeed, it seemed that nearly EVERYONE that was playing was part of the same clique), so I'm sure he knew the difference.

My point is that of the 20 full-pay machines in the room, more than half were sitting idle while several people were waiting to play. There ARE enough machines for everyone - they're being artificially limited due to the extreme selfishness of a few individuals.

I don't understand why people are going to such extreme & antisocial lengths to selfishly prevent others from playing. Back in the day when PE really was a good deal at MS (eg: $90 coin-in for 1 point, you could exchange points for gift cards, no ridiculous hand-pays on quads, etc), I NEVER had to wait more than 2-3 minutes for a machine. I'd see mostly the same faces every weekend I was there (I don't see any of the old regulars anymore; I assume they mostly moved on when I did), but I never saw anyone locking down machines or blatantly lying to "reserve" machines, or simply prevent others from playing.

Now that PE has been reduced to maybe a $8/hour play at best, people are being jerks to ensure that only they get to play it? I don't understand it.

_________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[haaljo_haaljo]

Mike,
IMO, never a good idea to bring oneself to management's attention so I'll decline asking for assistance. I think Bill's original post is about the rudeness. WTF happened in one year? Next time we will go to high limit and gamble slow or something like that.

I did like the SS check comment. When do the "crazy money" checks get sent out each month. Avoid Full moon days as well.
Dave in Bosstown

···

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <melbedewy1226@...> wrote:

You should have gone to the slot club and gotten assistance. They are not allowed to play 2 machines at a time when people are waiting. Machines should not be locked up for hours at a time. Of course since these machines are losers for the casino they may well prefer to have them locked up!
Better advice would be to NOT go on weekends-especially the first weekend of the month when SS checks are being cashed.

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "William" <billkennedy3@> wrote:
>
> Was at Mohegan Sun yesterday afternoon/evening. I used to play extremely regularly, but since the point downgrade & other MS changes, my play at the Sun is pretty infrequent. I visit maybe 3-4 times a year now, mainly for fun with friends.
>
> I was absolutely shocked at the state of the Pick 'Em room. It was never uncommon to have to wait a few minutes for a machine in the past, but yesterday was ridiculous - and to me it seemed that the situation was 100% created by a handful of very rude people that never learned how to share.
>
> When I arrived, there were already several people that were clearly waiting for a machine. Of the 20 full-pay PE machines in the room, I took note of how the machines were being utilized while I waited:
>
> 8 machines had legitimate players actively playing them
> 4 (!) machines had been disabled at a player's request so that nobody could play them while they were gone
> 5 machines had an empty seat, but were being "saved" by a nearby player for somebody that was "coming right back"
> 3 machines were being "played" by somebody that was already playing another machine (more on this below)
>
>
> I was there for over three hours. All 4 of the disabled machines remained locked for the entire duration that I was there, and an additional machine was locked down by a player about an hour before I left. Of the seats that were being "saved" for people that were "coming right back" - I think 1 of them actually had a player in it when I checked 15 minutes later. Two of the seats were still vacant when I left three hours later, yet the players next to the empty chairs kept telling others that they couldn't use them, because somebody was playing on those machines and they would "be right back".
>
> The three people that were playing 2 machines at once were probably the worst. I use "playing" lightly, because all of these people were playing less hands/hour than most of the people that only had a single machine. I know PE deals slowly, and many people can play 2 machines at full speed simultaneously (eg: by having 1 machine deal while they draw on the other machine), but these people would fully play 1 hand on 1 machine, then turn to the other machine and play a hand on that one. The machine they were not facing was simply sitting idle.
>
> One rude woman would play 20-30 hands on the machine that she was sitting at (quite slowly, I might add), then maybe 1-2 hands at the machine to her left, then repeat. I assumed that this was her way of saving the machine to her left, but she eventually cashed out of both machines and left. While she was there, several people asked her if the machine to her left was open, and each time she (very rudely) told them that both of the machines were hers.
>
> I did end up getting a machine after waiting about 20 minutes. During that time, I had a "helpful" gentleman tell me "you know, if you want to play Pick 'Em, there is another bank behind this one" (meaning the short-pay machines). It was obvious that this guy was a regular as he was talking to everyone else (indeed, it seemed that nearly EVERYONE that was playing was part of the same clique), so I'm sure he knew the difference.
>
> My point is that of the 20 full-pay machines in the room, more than half were sitting idle while several people were waiting to play. There ARE enough machines for everyone - they're being artificially limited due to the extreme selfishness of a few individuals.
>
> I don't understand why people are going to such extreme & antisocial lengths to selfishly prevent others from playing. Back in the day when PE really was a good deal at MS (eg: $90 coin-in for 1 point, you could exchange points for gift cards, no ridiculous hand-pays on quads, etc), I NEVER had to wait more than 2-3 minutes for a machine. I'd see mostly the same faces every weekend I was there (I don't see any of the old regulars anymore; I assume they mostly moved on when I did), but I never saw anyone locking down machines or blatantly lying to "reserve" machines, or simply prevent others from playing.
>
> Now that PE has been reduced to maybe a $8/hour play at best, people are being jerks to ensure that only they get to play it? I don't understand it.
>

[haaljo_haaljo]

Mel,
I just don't think it's a good idea to ask for casino's assistance.
Your supposed to keep a low profile. It's part of the game.
I also think its a majority of gamblers at the slantops. They all knew each other. That's another rule of the game. While your gambling you don't know any of the regulars. Casino's have done group banning.
Of course, that's when $50/hour earnings were abundant.
Dave in Btown

···

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, steve des <redsox69@...> wrote:

I sympathize with you all and I think it is a very small group of patrons that fall into this category.
I when seeing multiple machines being used will just ask a casino employee to tell them to stop. I have done this on 4 separate occasions only once did a player refuse. She then had to call her supervisor and then she relented and gave me the stare of death. I thought it was funny and just played next to her praying for a royal (to no avail)

To: vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com
From: melbedewy1226@...
Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 14:01:19 +0000
Subject: [vpFREE_NewEngland] Re: Rude players

      You should have gone to the slot club and gotten assistance. They are not allowed to play 2 machines at a time when people are waiting. Machines should not be locked up for hours at a time. Of course since these machines are losers for the casino they may well prefer to have them locked up!

Better advice would be to NOT go on weekends-especially the first weekend of the month when SS checks are being cashed.

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "William" <billkennedy3@> wrote:

>

> Was at Mohegan Sun yesterday afternoon/evening. I used to play extremely regularly, but since the point downgrade & other MS changes, my play at the Sun is pretty infrequent. I visit maybe 3-4 times a year now, mainly for fun with friends.

>

> I was absolutely shocked at the state of the Pick 'Em room. It was never uncommon to have to wait a few minutes for a machine in the past, but yesterday was ridiculous - and to me it seemed that the situation was 100% created by a handful of very rude people that never learned how to share.

>

> When I arrived, there were already several people that were clearly waiting for a machine. Of the 20 full-pay PE machines in the room, I took note of how the machines were being utilized while I waited:

>

> 8 machines had legitimate players actively playing them

> 4 (!) machines had been disabled at a player's request so that nobody could play them while they were gone

> 5 machines had an empty seat, but were being "saved" by a nearby player for somebody that was "coming right back"

> 3 machines were being "played" by somebody that was already playing another machine (more on this below)

>

>

> I was there for over three hours. All 4 of the disabled machines remained locked for the entire duration that I was there, and an additional machine was locked down by a player about an hour before I left. Of the seats that were being "saved" for people that were "coming right back" - I think 1 of them actually had a player in it when I checked 15 minutes later. Two of the seats were still vacant when I left three hours later, yet the players next to the empty chairs kept telling others that they couldn't use them, because somebody was playing on those machines and they would "be right back".

>

> The three people that were playing 2 machines at once were probably the worst. I use "playing" lightly, because all of these people were playing less hands/hour than most of the people that only had a single machine. I know PE deals slowly, and many people can play 2 machines at full speed simultaneously (eg: by having 1 machine deal while they draw on the other machine), but these people would fully play 1 hand on 1 machine, then turn to the other machine and play a hand on that one. The machine they were not facing was simply sitting idle.

>

> One rude woman would play 20-30 hands on the machine that she was sitting at (quite slowly, I might add), then maybe 1-2 hands at the machine to her left, then repeat. I assumed that this was her way of saving the machine to her left, but she eventually cashed out of both machines and left. While she was there, several people asked her if the machine to her left was open, and each time she (very rudely) told them that both of the machines were hers.

>

> I did end up getting a machine after waiting about 20 minutes. During that time, I had a "helpful" gentleman tell me "you know, if you want to play Pick 'Em, there is another bank behind this one" (meaning the short-pay machines). It was obvious that this guy was a regular as he was talking to everyone else (indeed, it seemed that nearly EVERYONE that was playing was part of the same clique), so I'm sure he knew the difference.

>

> My point is that of the 20 full-pay machines in the room, more than half were sitting idle while several people were waiting to play. There ARE enough machines for everyone - they're being artificially limited due to the extreme selfishness of a few individuals.

>

> I don't understand why people are going to such extreme & antisocial lengths to selfishly prevent others from playing. Back in the day when PE really was a good deal at MS (eg: $90 coin-in for 1 point, you could exchange points for gift cards, no ridiculous hand-pays on quads, etc), I NEVER had to wait more than 2-3 minutes for a machine. I'd see mostly the same faces every weekend I was there (I don't see any of the old regulars anymore; I assume they mostly moved on when I did), but I never saw anyone locking down machines or blatantly lying to "reserve" machines, or simply prevent others from playing.

>

> Now that PE has been reduced to maybe a $8/hour play at best, people are being jerks to ensure that only they get to play it? I don't understand it.

>

_________________________________________________________________
The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hotmail.
http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[mel3dmd]

Dave,
I rarely play pickum and it isn't a major issue for me. The player was really rude so I decided to act. I have spoken to my host about the problem, and she is a VP and rather candid with me about the casino and what goes on and she said it was not a problem at all doing this.
Mel

···

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <haaljo@...> wrote:

Mel,
I just don't think it's a good idea to ask for casino's assistance.
Your supposed to keep a low profile. It's part of the game.
I also think its a majority of gamblers at the slantops. They all knew each other. That's another rule of the game. While your gambling you don't know any of the regulars. Casino's have done group banning.
Of course, that's when $50/hour earnings were abundant.
Dave in Btown

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, steve des <redsox69@> wrote:
>
>
> I sympathize with you all and I think it is a very small group of patrons that fall into this category.
> I when seeing multiple machines being used will just ask a casino employee to tell them to stop. I have done this on 4 separate occasions only once did a player refuse. She then had to call her supervisor and then she relented and gave me the stare of death. I thought it was funny and just played next to her praying for a royal (to no avail)
>
> To: vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com
> From: melbedewy1226@
> Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 14:01:19 +0000
> Subject: [vpFREE_NewEngland] Re: Rude players
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> You should have gone to the slot club and gotten assistance. They are not allowed to play 2 machines at a time when people are waiting. Machines should not be locked up for hours at a time. Of course since these machines are losers for the casino they may well prefer to have them locked up!
>
> Better advice would be to NOT go on weekends-especially the first weekend of the month when SS checks are being cashed.
>
>
>
> --- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "William" <billkennedy3@> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Was at Mohegan Sun yesterday afternoon/evening. I used to play extremely regularly, but since the point downgrade & other MS changes, my play at the Sun is pretty infrequent. I visit maybe 3-4 times a year now, mainly for fun with friends.
>
> >
>
> > I was absolutely shocked at the state of the Pick 'Em room. It was never uncommon to have to wait a few minutes for a machine in the past, but yesterday was ridiculous - and to me it seemed that the situation was 100% created by a handful of very rude people that never learned how to share.
>
> >
>
> > When I arrived, there were already several people that were clearly waiting for a machine. Of the 20 full-pay PE machines in the room, I took note of how the machines were being utilized while I waited:
>
> >
>
> > 8 machines had legitimate players actively playing them
>
> > 4 (!) machines had been disabled at a player's request so that nobody could play them while they were gone
>
> > 5 machines had an empty seat, but were being "saved" by a nearby player for somebody that was "coming right back"
>
> > 3 machines were being "played" by somebody that was already playing another machine (more on this below)
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I was there for over three hours. All 4 of the disabled machines remained locked for the entire duration that I was there, and an additional machine was locked down by a player about an hour before I left. Of the seats that were being "saved" for people that were "coming right back" - I think 1 of them actually had a player in it when I checked 15 minutes later. Two of the seats were still vacant when I left three hours later, yet the players next to the empty chairs kept telling others that they couldn't use them, because somebody was playing on those machines and they would "be right back".
>
> >
>
> > The three people that were playing 2 machines at once were probably the worst. I use "playing" lightly, because all of these people were playing less hands/hour than most of the people that only had a single machine. I know PE deals slowly, and many people can play 2 machines at full speed simultaneously (eg: by having 1 machine deal while they draw on the other machine), but these people would fully play 1 hand on 1 machine, then turn to the other machine and play a hand on that one. The machine they were not facing was simply sitting idle.
>
> >
>
> > One rude woman would play 20-30 hands on the machine that she was sitting at (quite slowly, I might add), then maybe 1-2 hands at the machine to her left, then repeat. I assumed that this was her way of saving the machine to her left, but she eventually cashed out of both machines and left. While she was there, several people asked her if the machine to her left was open, and each time she (very rudely) told them that both of the machines were hers.
>
> >
>
> > I did end up getting a machine after waiting about 20 minutes. During that time, I had a "helpful" gentleman tell me "you know, if you want to play Pick 'Em, there is another bank behind this one" (meaning the short-pay machines). It was obvious that this guy was a regular as he was talking to everyone else (indeed, it seemed that nearly EVERYONE that was playing was part of the same clique), so I'm sure he knew the difference.
>
> >
>
> > My point is that of the 20 full-pay machines in the room, more than half were sitting idle while several people were waiting to play. There ARE enough machines for everyone - they're being artificially limited due to the extreme selfishness of a few individuals.
>
> >
>
> > I don't understand why people are going to such extreme & antisocial lengths to selfishly prevent others from playing. Back in the day when PE really was a good deal at MS (eg: $90 coin-in for 1 point, you could exchange points for gift cards, no ridiculous hand-pays on quads, etc), I NEVER had to wait more than 2-3 minutes for a machine. I'd see mostly the same faces every weekend I was there (I don't see any of the old regulars anymore; I assume they mostly moved on when I did), but I never saw anyone locking down machines or blatantly lying to "reserve" machines, or simply prevent others from playing.
>
> >
>
> > Now that PE has been reduced to maybe a $8/hour play at best, people are being jerks to ensure that only they get to play it? I don't understand it.
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hotmail.
> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[haaljo_haaljo]

Mel,
Each casino is different but I'm pretty sure Mohegan has done a bit of banning. One day VP players are welcome and then the next day they are the casino's worst nightmare. Wasn't it two years ago, when the one gambler was turning tricks with purchasing Bullion and Rolex watches with points. He was at a lounge and bragging about it and got the boot. Alcohol was involved.
About the same time, there was some hustle going on with team play and gold bullion out of that long gone store with all the fish tanks.
Some serious jail time was served by the Team leader.

Just ancedotal - We were at 25 cent level ~7 years ago and at the Gold Coast's FPDW machines. Met a BJ counter that was switching to VP. The BJ player was observing because one of the Boyd's hired a "known felon" to identify the hustlers at the Gold Coast.

The BJ player knew the felon but the felon didn't know him which he credited to "keeping a low profile."

That was the same night I met Elliot Shapiro. He was gambling at the FPDW. He said he was making a penny a hand plus comps. Elliot had been backed-off from the VP progressives. I think he had hit the Royal one too many times. Boyd didn't ban him. Elliot just couldn't work the progressives. He seemed happy with the 25 cent FPDW.
Dave near Boston

···

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "mel3dmdmsncom" <mel3dmd@...> wrote:

Dave,
I rarely play pickum and it isn't a major issue for me. The player was really rude so I decided to act. I have spoken to my host about the problem, and she is a VP and rather candid with me about the casino and what goes on and she said it was not a problem at all doing this.
Mel
--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <haaljo@> wrote:
>
> Mel,
> I just don't think it's a good idea to ask for casino's assistance.
> Your supposed to keep a low profile. It's part of the game.
> I also think its a majority of gamblers at the slantops. They all knew each other. That's another rule of the game. While your gambling you don't know any of the regulars. Casino's have done group banning.
> Of course, that's when $50/hour earnings were abundant.
> Dave in Btown
>
> --- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, steve des <redsox69@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I sympathize with you all and I think it is a very small group of patrons that fall into this category.
> > I when seeing multiple machines being used will just ask a casino employee to tell them to stop. I have done this on 4 separate occasions only once did a player refuse. She then had to call her supervisor and then she relented and gave me the stare of death. I thought it was funny and just played next to her praying for a royal (to no avail)
> >
> > To: vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com
> > From: melbedewy1226@
> > Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 14:01:19 +0000
> > Subject: [vpFREE_NewEngland] Re: Rude players
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > You should have gone to the slot club and gotten assistance. They are not allowed to play 2 machines at a time when people are waiting. Machines should not be locked up for hours at a time. Of course since these machines are losers for the casino they may well prefer to have them locked up!
> >
> > Better advice would be to NOT go on weekends-especially the first weekend of the month when SS checks are being cashed.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "William" <billkennedy3@> wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Was at Mohegan Sun yesterday afternoon/evening. I used to play extremely regularly, but since the point downgrade & other MS changes, my play at the Sun is pretty infrequent. I visit maybe 3-4 times a year now, mainly for fun with friends.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > I was absolutely shocked at the state of the Pick 'Em room. It was never uncommon to have to wait a few minutes for a machine in the past, but yesterday was ridiculous - and to me it seemed that the situation was 100% created by a handful of very rude people that never learned how to share.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > When I arrived, there were already several people that were clearly waiting for a machine. Of the 20 full-pay PE machines in the room, I took note of how the machines were being utilized while I waited:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > 8 machines had legitimate players actively playing them
> >
> > > 4 (!) machines had been disabled at a player's request so that nobody could play them while they were gone
> >
> > > 5 machines had an empty seat, but were being "saved" by a nearby player for somebody that was "coming right back"
> >
> > > 3 machines were being "played" by somebody that was already playing another machine (more on this below)
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > I was there for over three hours. All 4 of the disabled machines remained locked for the entire duration that I was there, and an additional machine was locked down by a player about an hour before I left. Of the seats that were being "saved" for people that were "coming right back" - I think 1 of them actually had a player in it when I checked 15 minutes later. Two of the seats were still vacant when I left three hours later, yet the players next to the empty chairs kept telling others that they couldn't use them, because somebody was playing on those machines and they would "be right back".
> >
> > >
> >
> > > The three people that were playing 2 machines at once were probably the worst. I use "playing" lightly, because all of these people were playing less hands/hour than most of the people that only had a single machine. I know PE deals slowly, and many people can play 2 machines at full speed simultaneously (eg: by having 1 machine deal while they draw on the other machine), but these people would fully play 1 hand on 1 machine, then turn to the other machine and play a hand on that one. The machine they were not facing was simply sitting idle.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > One rude woman would play 20-30 hands on the machine that she was sitting at (quite slowly, I might add), then maybe 1-2 hands at the machine to her left, then repeat. I assumed that this was her way of saving the machine to her left, but she eventually cashed out of both machines and left. While she was there, several people asked her if the machine to her left was open, and each time she (very rudely) told them that both of the machines were hers.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > I did end up getting a machine after waiting about 20 minutes. During that time, I had a "helpful" gentleman tell me "you know, if you want to play Pick 'Em, there is another bank behind this one" (meaning the short-pay machines). It was obvious that this guy was a regular as he was talking to everyone else (indeed, it seemed that nearly EVERYONE that was playing was part of the same clique), so I'm sure he knew the difference.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > My point is that of the 20 full-pay machines in the room, more than half were sitting idle while several people were waiting to play. There ARE enough machines for everyone - they're being artificially limited due to the extreme selfishness of a few individuals.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > I don't understand why people are going to such extreme & antisocial lengths to selfishly prevent others from playing. Back in the day when PE really was a good deal at MS (eg: $90 coin-in for 1 point, you could exchange points for gift cards, no ridiculous hand-pays on quads, etc), I NEVER had to wait more than 2-3 minutes for a machine. I'd see mostly the same faces every weekend I was there (I don't see any of the old regulars anymore; I assume they mostly moved on when I did), but I never saw anyone locking down machines or blatantly lying to "reserve" machines, or simply prevent others from playing.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Now that PE has been reduced to maybe a $8/hour play at best, people are being jerks to ensure that only they get to play it? I don't understand it.
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hotmail.
> > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

[mel3dmd]

Dave,
You are correct about the banning but what happened was the issue with the gold and some players on the 33rd who were selling rooms and concert tickets to a broker who was reselling them . The casino found out who they were and banned them. I am not saying it isn't possible for MS to ban people for gambling practices that are on the up and up but from what I have found out that has not been their pattern in the past.

···

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <haaljo@...> wrote:

Mel,
Each casino is different but I'm pretty sure Mohegan has done a bit of banning. One day VP players are welcome and then the next day they are the casino's worst nightmare. Wasn't it two years ago, when the one gambler was turning tricks with purchasing Bullion and Rolex watches with points. He was at a lounge and bragging about it and got the boot. Alcohol was involved.
About the same time, there was some hustle going on with team play and gold bullion out of that long gone store with all the fish tanks.
Some serious jail time was served by the Team leader.

Just ancedotal - We were at 25 cent level ~7 years ago and at the Gold Coast's FPDW machines. Met a BJ counter that was switching to VP. The BJ player was observing because one of the Boyd's hired a "known felon" to identify the hustlers at the Gold Coast.

The BJ player knew the felon but the felon didn't know him which he credited to "keeping a low profile."

That was the same night I met Elliot Shapiro. He was gambling at the FPDW. He said he was making a penny a hand plus comps. Elliot had been backed-off from the VP progressives. I think he had hit the Royal one too many times. Boyd didn't ban him. Elliot just couldn't work the progressives. He seemed happy with the 25 cent FPDW.
Dave near Boston

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "mel3dmdmsncom" <mel3dmd@> wrote:
>
> Dave,
> I rarely play pickum and it isn't a major issue for me. The player was really rude so I decided to act. I have spoken to my host about the problem, and she is a VP and rather candid with me about the casino and what goes on and she said it was not a problem at all doing this.
> Mel
> --- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <haaljo@> wrote:
> >
> > Mel,
> > I just don't think it's a good idea to ask for casino's assistance.
> > Your supposed to keep a low profile. It's part of the game.
> > I also think its a majority of gamblers at the slantops. They all knew each other. That's another rule of the game. While your gambling you don't know any of the regulars. Casino's have done group banning.
> > Of course, that's when $50/hour earnings were abundant.
> > Dave in Btown
> >
> > --- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, steve des <redsox69@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > I sympathize with you all and I think it is a very small group of patrons that fall into this category.
> > > I when seeing multiple machines being used will just ask a casino employee to tell them to stop. I have done this on 4 separate occasions only once did a player refuse. She then had to call her supervisor and then she relented and gave me the stare of death. I thought it was funny and just played next to her praying for a royal (to no avail)
> > >
> > > To: vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com
> > > From: melbedewy1226@
> > > Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 14:01:19 +0000
> > > Subject: [vpFREE_NewEngland] Re: Rude players
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > You should have gone to the slot club and gotten assistance. They are not allowed to play 2 machines at a time when people are waiting. Machines should not be locked up for hours at a time. Of course since these machines are losers for the casino they may well prefer to have them locked up!
> > >
> > > Better advice would be to NOT go on weekends-especially the first weekend of the month when SS checks are being cashed.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "William" <billkennedy3@> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Was at Mohegan Sun yesterday afternoon/evening. I used to play extremely regularly, but since the point downgrade & other MS changes, my play at the Sun is pretty infrequent. I visit maybe 3-4 times a year now, mainly for fun with friends.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > I was absolutely shocked at the state of the Pick 'Em room. It was never uncommon to have to wait a few minutes for a machine in the past, but yesterday was ridiculous - and to me it seemed that the situation was 100% created by a handful of very rude people that never learned how to share.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > When I arrived, there were already several people that were clearly waiting for a machine. Of the 20 full-pay PE machines in the room, I took note of how the machines were being utilized while I waited:
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > 8 machines had legitimate players actively playing them
> > >
> > > > 4 (!) machines had been disabled at a player's request so that nobody could play them while they were gone
> > >
> > > > 5 machines had an empty seat, but were being "saved" by a nearby player for somebody that was "coming right back"
> > >
> > > > 3 machines were being "played" by somebody that was already playing another machine (more on this below)
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > I was there for over three hours. All 4 of the disabled machines remained locked for the entire duration that I was there, and an additional machine was locked down by a player about an hour before I left. Of the seats that were being "saved" for people that were "coming right back" - I think 1 of them actually had a player in it when I checked 15 minutes later. Two of the seats were still vacant when I left three hours later, yet the players next to the empty chairs kept telling others that they couldn't use them, because somebody was playing on those machines and they would "be right back".
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > The three people that were playing 2 machines at once were probably the worst. I use "playing" lightly, because all of these people were playing less hands/hour than most of the people that only had a single machine. I know PE deals slowly, and many people can play 2 machines at full speed simultaneously (eg: by having 1 machine deal while they draw on the other machine), but these people would fully play 1 hand on 1 machine, then turn to the other machine and play a hand on that one. The machine they were not facing was simply sitting idle.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > One rude woman would play 20-30 hands on the machine that she was sitting at (quite slowly, I might add), then maybe 1-2 hands at the machine to her left, then repeat. I assumed that this was her way of saving the machine to her left, but she eventually cashed out of both machines and left. While she was there, several people asked her if the machine to her left was open, and each time she (very rudely) told them that both of the machines were hers.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > I did end up getting a machine after waiting about 20 minutes. During that time, I had a "helpful" gentleman tell me "you know, if you want to play Pick 'Em, there is another bank behind this one" (meaning the short-pay machines). It was obvious that this guy was a regular as he was talking to everyone else (indeed, it seemed that nearly EVERYONE that was playing was part of the same clique), so I'm sure he knew the difference.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > My point is that of the 20 full-pay machines in the room, more than half were sitting idle while several people were waiting to play. There ARE enough machines for everyone - they're being artificially limited due to the extreme selfishness of a few individuals.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > I don't understand why people are going to such extreme & antisocial lengths to selfishly prevent others from playing. Back in the day when PE really was a good deal at MS (eg: $90 coin-in for 1 point, you could exchange points for gift cards, no ridiculous hand-pays on quads, etc), I NEVER had to wait more than 2-3 minutes for a machine. I'd see mostly the same faces every weekend I was there (I don't see any of the old regulars anymore; I assume they mostly moved on when I did), but I never saw anyone locking down machines or blatantly lying to "reserve" machines, or simply prevent others from playing.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Now that PE has been reduced to maybe a $8/hour play at best, people are being jerks to ensure that only they get to play it? I don't understand it.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hotmail.
> > > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>

[chicken2692002]

I think that's foolish. Do you really think MS is unaware that these machines pay a 99.95% with the elusive "perfect play"?
If I played PE I would go right to the slot people and say " I want to get on one of the full-pay PE's but people are hogging 2 machines".

···

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <haaljo@...> wrote:

Mel,
I just don't think it's a good idea to ask for casino's assistance.
Your supposed to keep a low profile. It's part of the game.
I also think its a majority of gamblers at the slantops. They all knew each other. That's another rule of the game. While your gambling you don't know any of the regulars. Casino's have done group banning.
Of course, that's when $50/hour earnings were abundant.
Dave in Btown

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, steve des <redsox69@> wrote:
>
>
> I sympathize with you all and I think it is a very small group of patrons that fall into this category.
> I when seeing multiple machines being used will just ask a casino employee to tell them to stop. I have done this on 4 separate occasions only once did a player refuse. She then had to call her supervisor and then she relented and gave me the stare of death. I thought it was funny and just played next to her praying for a royal (to no avail)
>
> To: vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com
> From: melbedewy1226@
> Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 14:01:19 +0000
> Subject: [vpFREE_NewEngland] Re: Rude players
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> You should have gone to the slot club and gotten assistance. They are not allowed to play 2 machines at a time when people are waiting. Machines should not be locked up for hours at a time. Of course since these machines are losers for the casino they may well prefer to have them locked up!
>
> Better advice would be to NOT go on weekends-especially the first weekend of the month when SS checks are being cashed.
>
>
>
> --- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "William" <billkennedy3@> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Was at Mohegan Sun yesterday afternoon/evening. I used to play extremely regularly, but since the point downgrade & other MS changes, my play at the Sun is pretty infrequent. I visit maybe 3-4 times a year now, mainly for fun with friends.
>
> >
>
> > I was absolutely shocked at the state of the Pick 'Em room. It was never uncommon to have to wait a few minutes for a machine in the past, but yesterday was ridiculous - and to me it seemed that the situation was 100% created by a handful of very rude people that never learned how to share.
>
> >
>
> > When I arrived, there were already several people that were clearly waiting for a machine. Of the 20 full-pay PE machines in the room, I took note of how the machines were being utilized while I waited:
>
> >
>
> > 8 machines had legitimate players actively playing them
>
> > 4 (!) machines had been disabled at a player's request so that nobody could play them while they were gone
>
> > 5 machines had an empty seat, but were being "saved" by a nearby player for somebody that was "coming right back"
>
> > 3 machines were being "played" by somebody that was already playing another machine (more on this below)
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I was there for over three hours. All 4 of the disabled machines remained locked for the entire duration that I was there, and an additional machine was locked down by a player about an hour before I left. Of the seats that were being "saved" for people that were "coming right back" - I think 1 of them actually had a player in it when I checked 15 minutes later. Two of the seats were still vacant when I left three hours later, yet the players next to the empty chairs kept telling others that they couldn't use them, because somebody was playing on those machines and they would "be right back".
>
> >
>
> > The three people that were playing 2 machines at once were probably the worst. I use "playing" lightly, because all of these people were playing less hands/hour than most of the people that only had a single machine. I know PE deals slowly, and many people can play 2 machines at full speed simultaneously (eg: by having 1 machine deal while they draw on the other machine), but these people would fully play 1 hand on 1 machine, then turn to the other machine and play a hand on that one. The machine they were not facing was simply sitting idle.
>
> >
>
> > One rude woman would play 20-30 hands on the machine that she was sitting at (quite slowly, I might add), then maybe 1-2 hands at the machine to her left, then repeat. I assumed that this was her way of saving the machine to her left, but she eventually cashed out of both machines and left. While she was there, several people asked her if the machine to her left was open, and each time she (very rudely) told them that both of the machines were hers.
>
> >
>
> > I did end up getting a machine after waiting about 20 minutes. During that time, I had a "helpful" gentleman tell me "you know, if you want to play Pick 'Em, there is another bank behind this one" (meaning the short-pay machines). It was obvious that this guy was a regular as he was talking to everyone else (indeed, it seemed that nearly EVERYONE that was playing was part of the same clique), so I'm sure he knew the difference.
>
> >
>
> > My point is that of the 20 full-pay machines in the room, more than half were sitting idle while several people were waiting to play. There ARE enough machines for everyone - they're being artificially limited due to the extreme selfishness of a few individuals.
>
> >
>
> > I don't understand why people are going to such extreme & antisocial lengths to selfishly prevent others from playing. Back in the day when PE really was a good deal at MS (eg: $90 coin-in for 1 point, you could exchange points for gift cards, no ridiculous hand-pays on quads, etc), I NEVER had to wait more than 2-3 minutes for a machine. I'd see mostly the same faces every weekend I was there (I don't see any of the old regulars anymore; I assume they mostly moved on when I did), but I never saw anyone locking down machines or blatantly lying to "reserve" machines, or simply prevent others from playing.
>
> >
>
> > Now that PE has been reduced to maybe a $8/hour play at best, people are being jerks to ensure that only they get to play it? I don't understand it.
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hotmail.
> http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[haaljo_haaljo]

The machines have a theo of 99.5%. The "rude" players are not
gambling at 100% accuracy. The casino is making money on them. If you are gamlbing at the machines and are able to obtain 100% accuracy, (LOL) then the casino is losing money on you.
Who would you rather deal to?

Another ancedotal, The old Barbary Coast had a rich client addicted to VP. Worked the "full pay" machines and tables. Lost a lot of money.

He wanted a lucky machine and the CASINO politely asked a player to relocate. Person refused and they got into a pissing contest. The player was tresspassed and shown out the door.

···

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <melbedewy1226@...> wrote:

I think that's foolish. Do you really think MS is unaware that these machines pay a 99.95% with the elusive "perfect play"?
If I played PE I would go right to the slot people and say " I want to get on one of the full-pay PE's but people are hogging 2 machines".

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <haaljo@> wrote:
>
> Mel,
> I just don't think it's a good idea to ask for casino's assistance.
> Your supposed to keep a low profile. It's part of the game.
> I also think its a majority of gamblers at the slantops. They all knew each other. That's another rule of the game. While your gambling you don't know any of the regulars. Casino's have done group banning.
> Of course, that's when $50/hour earnings were abundant.
> Dave in Btown
>
> --- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, steve des <redsox69@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I sympathize with you all and I think it is a very small group of patrons that fall into this category.
> > I when seeing multiple machines being used will just ask a casino employee to tell them to stop. I have done this on 4 separate occasions only once did a player refuse. She then had to call her supervisor and then she relented and gave me the stare of death. I thought it was funny and just played next to her praying for a royal (to no avail)
> >
> > To: vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com
> > From: melbedewy1226@
> > Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 14:01:19 +0000
> > Subject: [vpFREE_NewEngland] Re: Rude players
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > You should have gone to the slot club and gotten assistance. They are not allowed to play 2 machines at a time when people are waiting. Machines should not be locked up for hours at a time. Of course since these machines are losers for the casino they may well prefer to have them locked up!
> >
> > Better advice would be to NOT go on weekends-especially the first weekend of the month when SS checks are being cashed.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "William" <billkennedy3@> wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Was at Mohegan Sun yesterday afternoon/evening. I used to play extremely regularly, but since the point downgrade & other MS changes, my play at the Sun is pretty infrequent. I visit maybe 3-4 times a year now, mainly for fun with friends.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > I was absolutely shocked at the state of the Pick 'Em room. It was never uncommon to have to wait a few minutes for a machine in the past, but yesterday was ridiculous - and to me it seemed that the situation was 100% created by a handful of very rude people that never learned how to share.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > When I arrived, there were already several people that were clearly waiting for a machine. Of the 20 full-pay PE machines in the room, I took note of how the machines were being utilized while I waited:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > 8 machines had legitimate players actively playing them
> >
> > > 4 (!) machines had been disabled at a player's request so that nobody could play them while they were gone
> >
> > > 5 machines had an empty seat, but were being "saved" by a nearby player for somebody that was "coming right back"
> >
> > > 3 machines were being "played" by somebody that was already playing another machine (more on this below)
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > I was there for over three hours. All 4 of the disabled machines remained locked for the entire duration that I was there, and an additional machine was locked down by a player about an hour before I left. Of the seats that were being "saved" for people that were "coming right back" - I think 1 of them actually had a player in it when I checked 15 minutes later. Two of the seats were still vacant when I left three hours later, yet the players next to the empty chairs kept telling others that they couldn't use them, because somebody was playing on those machines and they would "be right back".
> >
> > >
> >
> > > The three people that were playing 2 machines at once were probably the worst. I use "playing" lightly, because all of these people were playing less hands/hour than most of the people that only had a single machine. I know PE deals slowly, and many people can play 2 machines at full speed simultaneously (eg: by having 1 machine deal while they draw on the other machine), but these people would fully play 1 hand on 1 machine, then turn to the other machine and play a hand on that one. The machine they were not facing was simply sitting idle.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > One rude woman would play 20-30 hands on the machine that she was sitting at (quite slowly, I might add), then maybe 1-2 hands at the machine to her left, then repeat. I assumed that this was her way of saving the machine to her left, but she eventually cashed out of both machines and left. While she was there, several people asked her if the machine to her left was open, and each time she (very rudely) told them that both of the machines were hers.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > I did end up getting a machine after waiting about 20 minutes. During that time, I had a "helpful" gentleman tell me "you know, if you want to play Pick 'Em, there is another bank behind this one" (meaning the short-pay machines). It was obvious that this guy was a regular as he was talking to everyone else (indeed, it seemed that nearly EVERYONE that was playing was part of the same clique), so I'm sure he knew the difference.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > My point is that of the 20 full-pay machines in the room, more than half were sitting idle while several people were waiting to play. There ARE enough machines for everyone - they're being artificially limited due to the extreme selfishness of a few individuals.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > I don't understand why people are going to such extreme & antisocial lengths to selfishly prevent others from playing. Back in the day when PE really was a good deal at MS (eg: $90 coin-in for 1 point, you could exchange points for gift cards, no ridiculous hand-pays on quads, etc), I NEVER had to wait more than 2-3 minutes for a machine. I'd see mostly the same faces every weekend I was there (I don't see any of the old regulars anymore; I assume they mostly moved on when I did), but I never saw anyone locking down machines or blatantly lying to "reserve" machines, or simply prevent others from playing.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Now that PE has been reduced to maybe a $8/hour play at best, people are being jerks to ensure that only they get to play it? I don't understand it.
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hotmail.
> > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

[lfcmja]

The machines have a theo of 99.5%. The "rude" players are not
gambling at 100% accuracy. The casino is making money on them.

Mike and Haaljo are right. MS is making money on the PE, particularly now with the $270/pt.
There is no reason to keep a low profile. Sun management is well aware of the PE's return.

He wanted a lucky machine and the CASINO politely asked a player to relocate. Person refused and they got into a pissing contest. The player was tresspassed and shown out the door.

In Vegas the casinos are private property so management doesn't have to give you a reason to tresspass you. In NJ they are considered to be semi-public places so casinos can not ban you without good cause.

I don't know the rules in Conn.

Larry F.

···

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <haaljo@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <melbedewy1226@> wrote:
>
> I think that's foolish. Do you really think MS is unaware that these machines pay a 99.95% with the elusive "perfect play"?
> If I played PE I would go right to the slot people and say " I want to get on one of the full-pay PE's but people are hogging 2 machines".
>
> --- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <haaljo@> wrote:
> >
> > Mel,
> > I just don't think it's a good idea to ask for casino's assistance.
> > Your supposed to keep a low profile. It's part of the game.
> > I also think its a majority of gamblers at the slantops. They all knew each other. That's another rule of the game. While your gambling you don't know any of the regulars. Casino's have done group banning.
> > Of course, that's when $50/hour earnings were abundant.
> > Dave in Btown
> >
> > --- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, steve des <redsox69@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > I sympathize with you all and I think it is a very small group of patrons that fall into this category.
> > > I when seeing multiple machines being used will just ask a casino employee to tell them to stop. I have done this on 4 separate occasions only once did a player refuse. She then had to call her supervisor and then she relented and gave me the stare of death. I thought it was funny and just played next to her praying for a royal (to no avail)
> > >
> > > To: vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com
> > > From: melbedewy1226@
> > > Date: Tue, 4 May 2010 14:01:19 +0000
> > > Subject: [vpFREE_NewEngland] Re: Rude players
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > You should have gone to the slot club and gotten assistance. They are not allowed to play 2 machines at a time when people are waiting. Machines should not be locked up for hours at a time. Of course since these machines are losers for the casino they may well prefer to have them locked up!
> > >
> > > Better advice would be to NOT go on weekends-especially the first weekend of the month when SS checks are being cashed.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, "William" <billkennedy3@> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Was at Mohegan Sun yesterday afternoon/evening. I used to play extremely regularly, but since the point downgrade & other MS changes, my play at the Sun is pretty infrequent. I visit maybe 3-4 times a year now, mainly for fun with friends.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > I was absolutely shocked at the state of the Pick 'Em room. It was never uncommon to have to wait a few minutes for a machine in the past, but yesterday was ridiculous - and to me it seemed that the situation was 100% created by a handful of very rude people that never learned how to share.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > When I arrived, there were already several people that were clearly waiting for a machine. Of the 20 full-pay PE machines in the room, I took note of how the machines were being utilized while I waited:
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > 8 machines had legitimate players actively playing them
> > >
> > > > 4 (!) machines had been disabled at a player's request so that nobody could play them while they were gone
> > >
> > > > 5 machines had an empty seat, but were being "saved" by a nearby player for somebody that was "coming right back"
> > >
> > > > 3 machines were being "played" by somebody that was already playing another machine (more on this below)
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > I was there for over three hours. All 4 of the disabled machines remained locked for the entire duration that I was there, and an additional machine was locked down by a player about an hour before I left. Of the seats that were being "saved" for people that were "coming right back" - I think 1 of them actually had a player in it when I checked 15 minutes later. Two of the seats were still vacant when I left three hours later, yet the players next to the empty chairs kept telling others that they couldn't use them, because somebody was playing on those machines and they would "be right back".
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > The three people that were playing 2 machines at once were probably the worst. I use "playing" lightly, because all of these people were playing less hands/hour than most of the people that only had a single machine. I know PE deals slowly, and many people can play 2 machines at full speed simultaneously (eg: by having 1 machine deal while they draw on the other machine), but these people would fully play 1 hand on 1 machine, then turn to the other machine and play a hand on that one. The machine they were not facing was simply sitting idle.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > One rude woman would play 20-30 hands on the machine that she was sitting at (quite slowly, I might add), then maybe 1-2 hands at the machine to her left, then repeat. I assumed that this was her way of saving the machine to her left, but she eventually cashed out of both machines and left. While she was there, several people asked her if the machine to her left was open, and each time she (very rudely) told them that both of the machines were hers.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > I did end up getting a machine after waiting about 20 minutes. During that time, I had a "helpful" gentleman tell me "you know, if you want to play Pick 'Em, there is another bank behind this one" (meaning the short-pay machines). It was obvious that this guy was a regular as he was talking to everyone else (indeed, it seemed that nearly EVERYONE that was playing was part of the same clique), so I'm sure he knew the difference.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > My point is that of the 20 full-pay machines in the room, more than half were sitting idle while several people were waiting to play. There ARE enough machines for everyone - they're being artificially limited due to the extreme selfishness of a few individuals.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > I don't understand why people are going to such extreme & antisocial lengths to selfishly prevent others from playing. Back in the day when PE really was a good deal at MS (eg: $90 coin-in for 1 point, you could exchange points for gift cards, no ridiculous hand-pays on quads, etc), I NEVER had to wait more than 2-3 minutes for a machine. I'd see mostly the same faces every weekend I was there (I don't see any of the old regulars anymore; I assume they mostly moved on when I did), but I never saw anyone locking down machines or blatantly lying to "reserve" machines, or simply prevent others from playing.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > Now that PE has been reduced to maybe a $8/hour play at best, people are being jerks to ensure that only they get to play it? I don't understand it.
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hotmail.
> > > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>

[billkennedy3]

Lots of interesting responses - thanks for all the feedback.

I was mainly commenting on the rudeness of the players. I'm aware that I could have asked somebody on the floor to assist me, but it wasn't a big enough deal. I wasn't that upset over having to wait, just appalled that so many people could be so selfish. I had a friend to keep me company, so we joked about it while we waited. Wasn't worth involving an employee to me, although if I had been alone it may have been.

I'm quite certain that MS is making money on the full-pay PE machines. I've been adjacent to a slot tech two times in the past while they were going through the various maintenance menus on a disabled machine. One of these menus tracks the ACTUAL payback of each game. Both times, Pick'Em was listed just under 99%. Surprisingly, the "devils game" (Triple Trouble Poker) listed a slightly higher actual return than Pick'Em on both machines that I've see the payback screen for (and of course, all other games were well under 99%).

While playing PE, you have plenty of time to watch the people playing adjacent to you. I see a LOT of people making frequent mistakes. Even when I used to play regularly, some of the faces that I'd see every weekend definitely made more than a couple mistakes per hour. Most people don't realize how much one mistake every couple hundred hands will impact your expected return. So while my "$8/hour" figure is certainly possible in theory (assuming perfect play at maximum speed, and some way to convert points into dollars at about 80 cents per point), I agree that the overwhelming majority of these people are actually losing money. Probably lots of it.

[David]

...

I when seeing multiple machines being used will just ask a casino employee to tell them to stop. I have done this on 4 separate occasions only once did a player refuse. She then had to call her supervisor and then she relented and gave me the stare of death. I thought it was funny and just played next to her praying for a royal (to no avail)

I'd be afraid that the royal "music" initiates Morlock feeding time. Most of my PE play is now online at Bodog to avoid them. Quess I am missing out on the generous comps.

David

···

--- In vpFREE_NewEngland@yahoogroups.com, steve des <redsox69@...> wrote: