vpFREE2 Forums

RNG question

#1

Hi all. I am a novice, recreational player. I stayed and played (if you
could call it that) at the Westin in St. Maarten. I lost playing at
Double Double Bonus machine's 6/5 payout (yes, that is correct). I realize that
the odds are embarrassing, but my question is, can a casino (that is non
regulated), work the RNG to deal limited four of a kinds? Besides getting
spanked by the poor payouts, I felt cheated by the number of four of a kinds
that I received. Without embelishing, I would guesstimate, that I was
dealt three of a kind in over 30 situations, to NEVER land a four of a kind on
the draw! Can casino's that are non regulated, tamper or set payout
limits? Thank you.

Regards,
Steve

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#2

I often have wondered this too. I would swear they "tighten" things up on Fri and Sat nights at the Indian casino I frequent. No problem hitting the expected decent wins middle of the week, but the weekend rolls around and I can't play half the time on my usual session $ amount.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, uofmsucks1@... wrote:

Hi all. I am a novice, recreational player. I stayed and played (if you
could call it that) at the Westin in St. Maarten. I lost playing at
Double Double Bonus machine's 6/5 payout (yes, that is correct). I realize that
the odds are embarrassing, but my question is, can a casino (that is non
regulated), work the RNG to deal limited four of a kinds? Besides getting
spanked by the poor payouts, I felt cheated by the number of four of a kinds
that I received. Without embelishing, I would guesstimate, that I was
dealt three of a kind in over 30 situations, to NEVER land a four of a kind on
the draw! Can casino's that are non regulated, tamper or set payout
limits? Thank you.

Regards,
Steve

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#3

For major brands - IGT, Bally, WMS Gaming, Sigma etc. no. (IGT has an "Class
2" game that has a "genie" bonus feature. Class 2 is a term applied to
Indian casinos in a few states that are not allowed to have true video
poker. It is really a slot machine based on bingo or a lottery and is for
all practical purposes is a slot machine. On these it also does not matter
what cards you hold. The machine will use the genie (Other brands use a
"match card bonus") to obtain the intended result if you mis-hold. If there
is no genie or match card then you are playing normal video poker. Normally
the pay tables shown on these fakes are a lot better.) Not getting a 4 of a
kind from 30 dealt trips is hardly unusual and on a given 30 tries will miss
completely about 1/4 of the time. I doubt you were playing a gaffed machine.
6-5 DDB is such a bad game that they do not need to cheat you.

···

From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
uofmsucks1@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 9:49 PM
To: vpfree@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] RNG question

Hi all. I am a novice, recreational player. I stayed and played (if you
could call it that) at the Westin in St. Maarten. I lost playing at
Double Double Bonus machine's 6/5 payout (yes, that is correct). I realize
that
the odds are embarrassing, but my question is, can a casino (that is non
regulated), work the RNG to deal limited four of a kinds? Besides getting
spanked by the poor payouts, I felt cheated by the number of four of a kinds

that I received. Without embelishing, I would guesstimate, that I was
dealt three of a kind in over 30 situations, to NEVER land a four of a kind
on
the draw! Can casino's that are non regulated, tamper or set payout
limits? Thank you.

Regards,
Steve

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#4

What you have here is a possible maybe. The problem is you are only one person and what your are noticing is well know urban "legend?".

People are suggestible, so if you heard this somewhere, you could be predisposed to notice it. You would not be predisposed to notice other patterns that you weren't looking for.

In order to prove or disprove this theory, we'd have to take a random sampling from all the people playing in the casino, not merely the ones that have experienced this pattern and noticed it.

It could turn out that just as many people are winning during the week and losing on the weekend, they simple aren't noticing it because they aren't looking for it.

It is entirely possible that what you suspect is true, however the only way you'll ever know for sure is a methodical unbiased and dispassionate application of the scientific method.

Good luck, and let us all know what you find out if you get more hard data.

~FK

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "cheryl10jqka" <cheryl.mohme@...> wrote:I often have wondered this too. I would swear they "tighten" things up on Fri and Sat nights at the Indian casino I frequent. No problem hitting the expected decent wins middle of the week, but the weekend rolls around and I can't play half the time on my usual session $ amount.

#5

What you are saying makes sense. I have noticed this being a consistent pattern over the last year or so and don't know what might be truth in all that "legend" talk so I try to make sure I spend most of my time and $ mid-week when I can. It is all for fun so either way I'm having a good time. It's just nice when the "entertainment value" is a bit greater. Thanks for the input.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:

What you have here is a possible maybe. The problem is you are only one person and what your are noticing is well know urban "legend?".

People are suggestible, so if you heard this somewhere, you could be predisposed to notice it. You would not be predisposed to notice other patterns that you weren't looking for.

In order to prove or disprove this theory, we'd have to take a random sampling from all the people playing in the casino, not merely the ones that have experienced this pattern and noticed it.

It could turn out that just as many people are winning during the week and losing on the weekend, they simple aren't noticing it because they aren't looking for it.

It is entirely possible that what you suspect is true, however the only way you'll ever know for sure is a methodical unbiased and dispassionate application of the scientific method.

Good luck, and let us all know what you find out if you get more hard data.

~FK

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "cheryl10jqka" <cheryl.mohme@> wrote:I often have wondered this too. I would swear they "tighten" things up on Fri and Sat nights at the Indian casino I frequent. No problem hitting the expected decent wins middle of the week, but the weekend rolls around and I can't play half the time on my usual session $ amount.

#6

Anyone who has played much 50 play knows that whiffing on a 3 of a kind draw is not at all unusual - and that's 50 tries in a row instead of 30.

EE

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, uofmsucks1@... wrote:

.... I felt cheated by the number of four of a kinds
that I received. Without embelishing, I would guesstimate, that I was dealt three of a kind in over 30 situations, to NEVER land a four of a kind on the draw!....>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

#7

The odds on hitting 4 of a kind, when you have 3 of a kind is 23 1/2 to 1 ( 47 cards left in the deck after 5 are dealt , two cards on the re-deal).

So not getting 4 of a kind( when 3 are dealt) in 30 chances is not that unusual

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, uofmsucks1@... wrote:

Hi all. I am a novice, recreational player. I stayed and played (if you
could call it that) at the Westin in St. Maarten. I lost playing at
Double Double Bonus machine's 6/5 payout (yes, that is correct). I realize that
the odds are embarrassing, but my question is, can a casino (that is non
regulated), work the RNG to deal limited four of a kinds? Besides getting
spanked by the poor payouts, I felt cheated by the number of four of a kinds
that I received. Without embelishing, I would guesstimate, that I was
dealt three of a kind in over 30 situations, to NEVER land a four of a kind on
the draw! Can casino's that are non regulated, tamper or set payout
limits? Thank you.

Regards,
Steve

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#8

I haven't seen this question answered yet so I will.

Yes, once the machines arrive in foreign countries, on cruise ships, or at Indian casinos, they can be altered to perform in any way desired. I've played IGT machines all over the world with 110%/130% etc. stunning paytables that take your $$ faster than Washington politicians rattling off a litany of BS when looking into the cameras. Similar to online casinos where there's no verifiable regulations, when playing at these venues you should be prepared to expect anything.

That said, missing quads on dealt trips 30 times in a row anywhere wouldn't raise any type of flag to regular players.

but my question is, can a casino (that is non

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, uofmsucks1@ wrote:
> regulated), work the RNG to deal limited four of a kinds?

#9

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rob.singer1111" <rob.singer1111@...>

Yes, once the machines arrive in foreign countries, on cruise ships, or at Indian casinos, they can be altered to perform in any way desired. I've played IGT machines all over the world with 110%/130% etc. stunning paytables that take your $$ faster than Washington politicians rattling off a litany of BS when looking into the cameras. Similar to online casinos where there's no verifiable regulations, when playing at these venues you should be prepared to expect anything.

I tend to believe what you just said, but I would like to hear from a tech-savvy IGT kinda guy who could explain exactly how that could be done. In a layman's terms, since I am a little slow on stuff like that.

By the way, nice analogy about the politicians. Couldn't have said it any better myself. lol

#10

Or maybe you could explain it to me, Rob, if you know how it might be done tech-wise. Or someone here. How does an IGT machine get changed like that? If this has been discussed before, please direct me to a thread. Thanks, would appreciate it.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Bartop" <bobbartop@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rob.singer1111" <rob.singer1111@>
>
> Yes, once the machines arrive in foreign countries, on cruise ships, or at Indian casinos, they can be altered to perform in any way desired. I've played IGT machines all over the world with 110%/130% etc. stunning paytables that take your $$ faster than Washington politicians rattling off a litany of BS when looking into the cameras. Similar to online casinos where there's no verifiable regulations, when playing at these venues you should be prepared to expect anything.
>

I tend to believe what you just said, but I would like to hear from a tech-savvy IGT kinda guy who could explain exactly how that could be done. In a layman's terms, since I am a little slow on stuff like that.

#11

Guessing it has been discussed here before, but the following is a new angle, that caught IGT by surprise

http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/07/ff_scammingslots/all/1

Again, this won't be an issue in most regulated casinos, but in other more loosely regulated areas (gee like cruise ships and Indian casinos) player beware!!!

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Bartop" <bobbartop@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Bartop" <bobbartop@> wrote:
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "rob.singer1111" <rob.singer1111@>
> >
> > Yes, once the machines arrive in foreign countries, on cruise ships, or at Indian casinos, they can be altered to perform in any way desired. I've played IGT machines all over the world with 110%/130% etc. stunning paytables that take your $$ faster than Washington politicians rattling off a litany of BS when looking into the cameras. Similar to online casinos where there's no verifiable regulations, when playing at these venues you should be prepared to expect anything.
> >
>
>
> I tend to believe what you just said, but I would like to hear from a tech-savvy IGT kinda guy who could explain exactly how that could be done. In a layman's terms, since I am a little slow on stuff like that.
>

Or maybe you could explain it to me, Rob, if you know how it might be done tech-wise. Or someone here. How does an IGT machine get changed like that? If this has been discussed before, please direct me to a thread. Thanks, would appreciate it.

#12

Wow, what an article! I couldn't help but feel sorry for the guy.

I just hope that someday if I do something in California that violates some foreign protocol, that I don't find myself on a one-way trip to Uzbekistan.

But back to my question, I guess this gives me a better idea of how it can be done. Thanks for the article!

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, lasvegaspilgrim@... wrote:

Guessing it has been discussed here before, but the following is a new angle, that caught IGT by surprise

http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/07/ff_scammingslots/all/1

Again, this won't be an issue in most regulated casinos, but in other more loosely regulated areas (gee like cruise ships and Indian casinos) player beware!!!

#13

I hear people all the time saying the vp is tight today, and especially like you say,on the weekend. I am sure the legend has influenced them, as I am just as sure that the machines have not changed from the previous day.

Because, I think most vp players (pro or not) lose more often than they win on any given day, the legend takes on a life of its own.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Frank" <frank@...> wrote:

What you have here is a possible maybe. The problem is you are only one person and what your are noticing is well know urban "legend?".

#14

Just another great example how white collar crime in America receives
little or no punishment. Yet they run a multi billion dollar industry
housing thousands of uneducated individuals for 5-10 years for a car jacking or a little weed.

I feel sorry for the guy too, he got caught hahaha. If you are amoral
like the guy in the article (he could't understand what he'd done wrong) I say go for it! Its surely the American way.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Bartop" <bobbartop@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, lasvegaspilgrim@ wrote:
>
> Guessing it has been discussed here before, but the following is a new angle, that caught IGT by surprise
>
> http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/07/ff_scammingslots/all/1
>
> Again, this won't be an issue in most regulated casinos, but in other more loosely regulated areas (gee like cruise ships and Indian casinos) player beware!!!
>

Wow, what an article! I couldn't help but feel sorry for the guy.

I just hope that someday if I do something in California that violates some foreign protocol, that I don't find myself on a one-way trip to Uzbekistan.

But back to my question, I guess this gives me a better idea of how it can be done. Thanks for the article!

#15

It's not his prosecution for the crime that troubles me, it's the extradition process from Latvia. That's kinda weird. I know it would probably ruin my day if I got extradited to Latvia for something.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Don parks" <donparks21@...> wrote:

Just another great example how white collar crime in America receives
little or no punishment. Yet they run a multi billion dollar industry
housing thousands of uneducated individuals for 5-10 years for a car jacking or a little weed.

I feel sorry for the guy too, he got caught hahaha. If you are amoral
like the guy in the article (he could't understand what he'd done wrong) I say go for it! Its surely the American way.

#16

More precisely, the probability of hitting the fourth card is 2/47. Therefore, the probability of not hitting the fourth card is 45/47. The probability of not getting the fourth card in 30 attempts is (45/47)^30 which is roughly 27.1% which I agree with sheiky2 that it is not unusual.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "sheiky2" <sheiky2@...> wrote:

The odds on hitting 4 of a kind, when you have 3 of a kind is 23 1/2 to 1 ( 47 cards left in the deck after 5 are dealt , two cards on the re-deal).

So not getting 4 of a kind( when 3 are dealt) in 30 chances is not that unusual

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, uofmsucks1@ wrote:
>
> Hi all. I am a novice, recreational player. I stayed and played (if you
> could call it that) at the Westin in St. Maarten. I lost playing at
> Double Double Bonus machine's 6/5 payout (yes, that is correct). I realize that
> the odds are embarrassing, but my question is, can a casino (that is non
> regulated), work the RNG to deal limited four of a kinds? Besides getting
> spanked by the poor payouts, I felt cheated by the number of four of a kinds
> that I received. Without embelishing, I would guesstimate, that I was
> dealt three of a kind in over 30 situations, to NEVER land a four of a kind on
> the draw! Can casino's that are non regulated, tamper or set payout
> limits? Thank you.
>
> Regards,
> Steve
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>