vpFREE2 Forums

RNG and New Machines

#1

An interesting item came up yesterday in a local Indian Casino.
Wednesday they took out a bank of 16 old $.25 coin dropping machines
that did contain $.25 NSUD. They replaced them with 12 new slant top
Game Kings with TITO. Unfortunately the NSUD was downgraded to Airport
Dueces.
  The interesting thing I saw today was that one of the new machine
was "out Of Service" today (after on one day or less of operation).
It was so far out of service that the top was open an the "guts" of
the machine were removed. A player said that the machine was remove
to be fixed. He said it was malfunctioning and paying out too many
large hands or jackpots.
  Could this even be possilbe? I could understand various machine
problems, but could it have ever been paying out too much money? Is
not the RNG chip carefully tested before use? Since these machines
and RGNs are probably certified acurate before ever leaving the
factory, it seems like such a problem could never exist in a new
machine. This might be just a case of how false, but interesting
rumors can be spread. However, that is the story now going on about
that machine.
  Another interesting "real fact" is a real error I think they made
of one of the machine. The machines have 8/5 JoB for $.25 and 9/5
for $1. However, only one of the 12 machines has these two pay
schedules reversed. It has 9/5 at the $25 level and 8/5 at the $1
level. I assume this is simply a "sep up" error and I wonder if or
when it will be corrected. I honestly do not think most people will
even notice this discrepancy.

Thanks,
Bob

#2

At an Indian Casino? Who says it even had an RNG chip? Tested? By
whom? Certified? By whom? Who says a "new machine" hasn't been altered
before installation?

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "futrend" <futrend@y...> wrote:

  An interesting item came up yesterday in a local Indian Casino.
A player said that the machine was remove
to be fixed. He said it was malfunctioning and paying out too many
large hands or jackpots.
  Could this even be possilbe? I could understand various machine
problems, but could it have ever been paying out too much money? Is
not the RNG chip carefully tested before use? Since these machines
and RGNs are probably certified acurate before ever leaving the
factory, it seems like such a problem could never exist in a new
machine.

#3

IGT makes video poker without RNG, see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREE/message/44118

#4

VP machines are just special purpose computers, and as such are prone
to problems like any other computer. For example, errors could occur
in the VP machine communicating to the TITO printer and printing to
large a ticket. This would have absolutely nothing to do with the RNG.

Just one of many possibilities.

Dick

  An interesting item came up yesterday in a local Indian Casino.
Wednesday they took out a bank of 16 old $.25 coin dropping

machines

that did contain $.25 NSUD. They replaced them with 12 new slant

top

Game Kings with TITO. Unfortunately the NSUD was downgraded to

Airport

Dueces.
  The interesting thing I saw today was that one of the new machine
was "out Of Service" today (after on one day or less of

operation).

It was so far out of service that the top was open an the "guts" of
the machine were removed. A player said that the machine was

remove

to be fixed. He said it was malfunctioning and paying out too many
large hands or jackpots.
  Could this even be possilbe? I could understand various machine
problems, but could it have ever been paying out too much money?

Is

not the RNG chip carefully tested before use? Since these machines
and RGNs are probably certified acurate before ever leaving the
factory, it seems like such a problem could never exist in a new
machine. This might be just a case of how false, but interesting
rumors can be spread. However, that is the story now going on

about

that machine.
  Another interesting "real fact" is a real error I think they made
of one of the machine. The machines have 8/5 JoB for $.25 and 9/5
for $1. However, only one of the 12 machines has these two pay
schedules reversed. It has 9/5 at the $25 level and 8/5 at the $1
level. I assume this is simply a "sep up" error and I wonder if or
when it will be corrected. I honestly do not think most people

will

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "futrend" <futrend@y...> wrote:

even notice this discrepancy.

Thanks,
Bob

#5

Let's try this one more time -- just because it is a Bingo (class II) or a
VLT does not mean it doesn't have an RNG, it just means it does not deal
from a randomly selected 52-card deck but, instead, generates a random
Bingo Card or picks a winner similarly to a slot machine. It is still
random, it is not cheating, it is simply that you cannot determine the
payback from the pay table.

···

At 05:39 PM 06/03/2005, you wrote:

IGT makes video poker without RNG, see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREE/message/44118

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#6

Accidentally resent this. Sorry.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#7

Since NIGC.gov is still working on the official regulations for Class
II, at this point pretty much anything goes. But in general, the
determination is made at a central controller, not in the machines
themselves, thus no need for an RNG in a Class II video poker machine.

Let's try this one more time -- just because it is a Bingo (class

II) or a

VLT does not mean it doesn't have an RNG, it just means it does not

deal

from a randomly selected 52-card deck but, instead, generates a

random

Bingo Card or picks a winner similarly to a slot machine. It is

still

random, it is not cheating, it is simply that you cannot determine

the

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Coleman <vphobby2@c...> wrote:

payback from the pay table.

At 05:39 PM 06/03/2005, you wrote:
>IGT makes video poker without RNG, see:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREE/message/44118

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#8

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000"
<nightoftheiguana2000@y...> wrote:

At an Indian Casino? Who says it even had an RNG chip? Tested? By
whom? Certified? By whom? Who says a "new machine" hasn't been altered
before installation?

    Good and valid questions. I do wonder if any of your questions
are valid in this casino?
    I did go back to look at these machines. The "Help" button
stated the game uses a 52 card deck. I also asked a "Slot Manager"
and he insisted they all use RNG chip and all they request are
different pay schedules". I did not mention that one of 12 new
machines has the $.25 and $1 pay schedules reveresed!
    There are 7 indian casino in the Phoenix area and I believe they
all have normal video poker machines. Are the any members with
Phoenix area vp expereience that thinks different? I think they need
to remain competitive with each other and with Nevada, but how else
can one know they have RNG chips?

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "futrend" <futrend@y...> wrote:

"An interesting item came up yesterday in a local Indian Casino.
A player said that the machine was remove to be fixed. He said
it was malfunctioning and paying out too many large hands or jackpots.
Could this even be possilbe? I could understand various machine
problems, but could it have ever been paying out too much money? Is
not the RNG chip carefully tested before use? Since these machines
and RGNs are probably certified acurate before ever leaving the
factory, it seems like such a problem could never exist in a new
machine.

#9

The machines I originally mentioned in a Phoenix area indian casino
state they use a 52 card deck. I guess this means a RGN, but is it
tested, certified, and by whom, etc. I do not know these answers.

Bob

"Let's try this one more time -- just because it is a Bingo (class II)
or a VLT does not mean it doesn't have an RNG, it just means it does
not deal from a randomly selected 52-card deck but, instead, generates
a random Bingo Card or picks a winner similarly to a slot machine. It
is still random, it is not cheating, it is simply that you cannot
determine the payback from the pay table".

···

In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Bill Coleman <vphobby2@c...> wrote:

At 05:39 PM 06/03/2005, you wrote:
>IGT makes video poker without RNG, see:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREE/message/44118

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]