visited River Rock today, checked 1 of about every 5 machines. JoB
paytables by denom:
5-10 cent - 6/5 (ouch)
20-50 cent - 9/5 (saw a few 8/5)
$ - 9/6 (ding!)
scattered throughout the small casino, and I only play JoB so I can't
say anything about other games.
Has it been determined that Indian Casinos are offering 'regular' VP,
or are these bingo machines?
--- In vpFREE_California@yahoogroups.com, LHOOQ <fieldcommand@g...>
wrote:
visited River Rock today, checked 1 of about every 5 machines. JoB
paytables by denom:5-10 cent - 6/5 (ouch)
20-50 cent - 9/5 (saw a few 8/5)
$ - 9/6 (ding!)scattered throughout the small casino, and I only play JoB so I can't
say anything about other games.Has it been determined that Indian Casinos are offering 'regular' VP,
or are these bingo machines?
What was the manufacturer of the machines that had the 'vp' on them?
If IGT or Bally's (like in LV), they are probably 'class III', vs.
the 'bingo/lottery pool' class II devices.
ALSO - PECHANGA has quite an overstock of the "II" games (mostly video-
slots, but that makes me wary of their vp games).
Martin
Play until you have a dealt paying hand, discard some or all of it,
and see whether you always draw at least as good a hand.
JBQ
On 11/13/05, LHOOQ <fieldcommand@gmail.com> wrote:
Has it been determined that Indian Casinos are offering 'regular' VP,
or are these bingo machines?
Can you elaborate on what that proves please?
----- Original Message -----
From: Jean-Baptiste Queru
To: vpFREE_California@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 8:09 PM
Subject: Re: [vpFREE_California] River Rock Geyserville
Play until you have a dealt paying hand, discard some or all of it,
and see whether you always draw at least as good a hand.
JBQ
On 11/13/05, LHOOQ <fieldcommand@gmail.com> wrote:
> Has it been determined that Indian Casinos are offering 'regular' VP,
> or are these bingo machines?
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VLTs are a lottery run by a central computer. That central computer
creates a pool of outcomes, and picks random outcomes from that pool.
As an example (to grossly oversimplify), at reset that computer could
decide that over 1 million plays, 250000 will pay "something", and
750000 will pay nothing (I explicitly don't want to go into details).
When playing, the central computer decides the outcome right as you
start playing. If the computer decides that you have a certain payoff,
you will have that payoff no matter what you do.
For VP, in order to maintain the illusion of an actual VP game, the
VLT can only deal a high pair if the central computer decided that
you'd have a payoff. In that case, if you discard the pair, the VLT
still has to give you your payoff.
For a deal with a high pair and 3 low card, discarding one of the high
cards only results in a high pair 4.2% of the time in real VP. If you
find that you always get a high pair (3 or 4 samples are enough), you
can be almost certain that you're playing a VLT.
Note that in reality VP on a VLT is only "interesting" with additional
bonuses (e.g. match card, second chance, etc...), so that in reality
there is no need to do any kind of analysis - it should be quickly
obvious with a low number of hands, by holding everything for each
hand.
JBQ
On 11/15/05, docjump <docjump@earthlink.net> wrote:
Can you elaborate on what that proves please?
--- In vpFREE_California@yahoogroups.com, Jean-Baptiste Queru
<jb@q...> wrote:
"When playing, the central computer decides the outcome right as you
start playing. If the computer decides that you have a certain
payoff, you will have that payoff no matter what you do."
JBQ offerred the idea of when dealt a winning hand, to discard
everything and see if the the redraw is as good as the winning to be
used as proof of Class II.
Here's the fallacy to JBQ's argument. Let's say I'm dealt 4 jacks
and decided to keep only two jacks -- how is it possible that the
remaining three cards will improve on my hand of quad jacks? Using
JBQ logic, he stated "If the computer decides that you have a
certain payoff, you will have that payoff no matter what you do."
Food for thought.
my understanding is that there is a 'match card' or a 'magic genie'
that comes out and saves you.
On 11/16/05, fordscks <jason_c_vp@yahoo.com> wrote:
--- In vpFREE_California@yahoogroups.com, Jean-Baptiste Queru
<jb@q...> wrote:"When playing, the central computer decides the outcome right as you
start playing. If the computer decides that you have a certain
payoff, you will have that payoff no matter what you do."JBQ offerred the idea of when dealt a winning hand, to discard
everything and see if the the redraw is as good as the winning to be
used as proof of Class II.Here's the fallacy to JBQ's argument. Let's say I'm dealt 4 jacks
and decided to keep only two jacks -- how is it possible that the
remaining three cards will improve on my hand of quad jacks? Using
JBQ logic, he stated "If the computer decides that you have a
certain payoff, you will have that payoff no matter what you do."Food for thought.
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You found the reason why in reality trying to make a VP VLT without a
"genie" or a "match card"(or any other such contraption) is
pointless, since the only winning hands would have to be dealt (in
case you decide to keep everything) and would have to be such that
they can be re-created if you decide to break them (which only allows
for pair, 2 pair, 3oak, straight, flush, and full house).
Like I wrote, in reality VP VLTs use other tricks to make you believe
that you are playing VP even though you are not, and therefore my
reasoning is uselessly academic.
JBQ
On 11/16/05, fordscks <jason_c_vp@yahoo.com> wrote:
--- In vpFREE_California@yahoogroups.com, Jean-Baptiste Queru
<jb@q...> wrote:"When playing, the central computer decides the outcome right as you
start playing. If the computer decides that you have a certain
payoff, you will have that payoff no matter what you do."JBQ offerred the idea of when dealt a winning hand, to discard
everything and see if the the redraw is as good as the winning to be
used as proof of Class II.Here's the fallacy to JBQ's argument. Let's say I'm dealt 4 jacks
and decided to keep only two jacks -- how is it possible that the
remaining three cards will improve on my hand of quad jacks? Using
JBQ logic, he stated "If the computer decides that you have a
certain payoff, you will have that payoff no matter what you do."Food for thought.
vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links