Times must be difficult for revel last year I had a great borgata day and decided to check out revel with some of the winnings. It was right before the grand opening
Well I played for 30 minutes and lost some of the borgata winnings. Since then I have been getting offer like crazy. This week an umbrella one day and free tickets to see il divo and a room on another day
I guess they have to keep on trying to get me back
Revel Atlantic city
Grand opening of what? Revel has been open for a year now.
"Times must be difficult" for Revel is an understatement. Pennsylvania take is more than AC nowadays. Empire Type II VP Racino in NYC take has been stunning. Enough for the owners to buy out the Echelon project from Boyd. I think it's a Malaysian outfit.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "richmontgomery138" <richmontgomery138@...> wrote:
Times must be difficult for revel last year I had a great borgata day and decided to check out revel with some of the winnings. It was right before the grand opening
Well I played for 30 minutes and lost some of the borgata winnings. Since then I have been getting offer like crazy. This week an umbrella one day and free tickets to see il divo and a room on another day
I guess they have to keep on trying to get me back
Yeah I think NYC people have decided that if you're going to get shitty payouts in AC you might as well save the 2 hour trip and get them at home.
Still worth it if you can get a free room-although on that score Foxwoods is just as desperate in handing them out as AC.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <haaljo@...> wrote:
Grand opening of what? Revel has been open for a year now.
"Times must be difficult" for Revel is an understatement. Pennsylvania take is more than AC nowadays. Empire Type II VP Racino in NYC take has been stunning. Enough for the owners to buy out the Echelon project from Boyd. I think it's a Malaysian outfit.--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "richmontgomery138" <richmontgomery138@> wrote:
>
> Times must be difficult for revel last year I had a great borgata day and decided to check out revel with some of the winnings. It was right before the grand opening
> Well I played for 30 minutes and lost some of the borgata winnings. Since then I have been getting offer like crazy. This week an umbrella one day and free tickets to see il divo and a room on another day
> I guess they have to keep on trying to get me back
>
I'll try again I have not gambled there since just before the grand opening LAST YEAR yet still get the offers. They are desperate. Thanks I he I was clear. Now
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <melbedewy1226@...> wrote:
Yeah I think NYC people have decided that if you're going to get shitty payouts in AC you might as well save the 2 hour trip and get them at home.
Still worth it if you can get a free room-although on that score Foxwoods is just as desperate in handing them out as AC.--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <haaljo@> wrote:
>
> Grand opening of what? Revel has been open for a year now.
> "Times must be difficult" for Revel is an understatement. Pennsylvania take is more than AC nowadays. Empire Type II VP Racino in NYC take has been stunning. Enough for the owners to buy out the Echelon project from Boyd. I think it's a Malaysian outfit.
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "richmontgomery138" <richmontgomery138@> wrote:
> >
> > Times must be difficult for revel last year I had a great borgata day and decided to check out revel with some of the winnings. It was right before the grand opening
> > Well I played for 30 minutes and lost some of the borgata winnings. Since then I have been getting offer like crazy. This week an umbrella one day and free tickets to see il divo and a room on another day
> > I guess they have to keep on trying to get me back
> >
>
On VPFREE or one of her daughter boards; has been noted that EMPIRE is required to hold 8% of VLT action. Correct it's a shitty payout but may actually be better than AC for slot player.
If AC casino hold is reported at 8%, could be the slot machine hold is >10% while the VP hold is <5%.
Empire is 8% for both slot and the fake VP.
This could be noticeable and slot players would start to recognize the Empire machines are looser.
Another nail in the AC coffin and force AC to reduce slot hold.
But then again NY state could increase hold some rainy day.
I think this is right. If VP action is a high percentage of total could be very significant. Never have seen percent of total action attributed to VP vs. one armed bandits.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <melbedewy1226@...> wrote:
Yeah I think NYC people have decided that if you're going to get shitty payouts in AC you might as well save the 2 hour trip and get them at home.
Still worth it if you can get a free room-although on that score Foxwoods is just as desperate in handing them out as AC.--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <haaljo@> wrote:
>
> Grand opening of what? Revel has been open for a year now.
> "Times must be difficult" for Revel is an understatement. Pennsylvania take is more than AC nowadays. Empire Type II VP Racino in NYC take has been stunning. Enough for the owners to buy out the Echelon project from Boyd. I think it's a Malaysian outfit.
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "richmontgomery138" <richmontgomery138@> wrote:
> >
> > Times must be difficult for revel last year I had a great borgata day and decided to check out revel with some of the winnings. It was right before the grand opening
> > Well I played for 30 minutes and lost some of the borgata winnings. Since then I have been getting offer like crazy. This week an umbrella one day and free tickets to see il divo and a room on another day
> > I guess they have to keep on trying to get me back
> >
>
Now your post brings up an interesting question regarding Empire and the hold. What if the slot hold is higher and the VP play is more true to being random and not fake?do you know the answer? And how does a casino rig a game king VP machine to cheat ?
I'm not challenging you but want more answers
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <haaljo@...> wrote:
On VPFREE or one of her daughter boards; has been noted that EMPIRE is required to hold 8% of VLT action. Correct it's a shitty payout but may actually be better than AC for slot player.
If AC casino hold is reported at 8%, could be the slot machine hold is >10% while the VP hold is <5%.
Empire is 8% for both slot and the fake VP.
This could be noticeable and slot players would start to recognize the Empire machines are looser.Another nail in the AC coffin and force AC to reduce slot hold.
But then again NY state could increase hold some rainy day.I think this is right. If VP action is a high percentage of total could be very significant. Never have seen percent of total action attributed to VP vs. one armed bandits.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <melbedewy1226@> wrote:
>
> Yeah I think NYC people have decided that if you're going to get shitty payouts in AC you might as well save the 2 hour trip and get them at home.
> Still worth it if you can get a free room-although on that score Foxwoods is just as desperate in handing them out as AC.
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <haaljo@> wrote:
> >
> > Grand opening of what? Revel has been open for a year now.
> > "Times must be difficult" for Revel is an understatement. Pennsylvania take is more than AC nowadays. Empire Type II VP Racino in NYC take has been stunning. Enough for the owners to buy out the Echelon project from Boyd. I think it's a Malaysian outfit.
> >
> > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "richmontgomery138" <richmontgomery138@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Times must be difficult for revel last year I had a great borgata day and decided to check out revel with some of the winnings. It was right before the grand opening
> > > Well I played for 30 minutes and lost some of the borgata winnings. Since then I have been getting offer like crazy. This week an umbrella one day and free tickets to see il divo and a room on another day
> > > I guess they have to keep on trying to get me back
> > >
> >
>
Everything I have read on VPFREE, her daughterboards, and the ACVPP players groups is Empire VP is not random. There's no such thing as "more true to random" 
- The fake VP has the little green elf come up or something like that which is indicative of Class II machines.
Empire does not rig "vp" machines. They are Video Lottery Terminals all connected together and the players are competing against each other in a bingo game yype drawing. That's Class II gambling - A game of chance. Skill does not effect outcome.
Class III video poker gambling is a game of skill where Skill effects outcome.
One the other grips, ~10 years Empire will be Class III gaming with game of skill video poker and human dealers. A hotel and other resort style amenities. All in da middle of Yonkers.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "richmontgomery138" <richmontgomery138@...> wrote:
Now your post brings up an interesting question regarding Empire and the hold. What if the slot hold is higher and the VP play is more true to being random and not fake?do you know the answer? And how does a casino rig a game king VP machine to cheat ?
I'm not challenging you but want more answers--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <haaljo@> wrote:
>
> On VPFREE or one of her daughter boards; has been noted that EMPIRE is required to hold 8% of VLT action. Correct it's a shitty payout but may actually be better than AC for slot player.
>
> If AC casino hold is reported at 8%, could be the slot machine hold is >10% while the VP hold is <5%.
> Empire is 8% for both slot and the fake VP.
> This could be noticeable and slot players would start to recognize the Empire machines are looser.
>
> Another nail in the AC coffin and force AC to reduce slot hold.
> But then again NY state could increase hold some rainy day.
>
> I think this is right. If VP action is a high percentage of total could be very significant. Never have seen percent of total action attributed to VP vs. one armed bandits.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <melbedewy1226@> wrote:
> >
> > Yeah I think NYC people have decided that if you're going to get shitty payouts in AC you might as well save the 2 hour trip and get them at home.
> > Still worth it if you can get a free room-although on that score Foxwoods is just as desperate in handing them out as AC.
> >
> > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <haaljo@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Grand opening of what? Revel has been open for a year now.
> > > "Times must be difficult" for Revel is an understatement. Pennsylvania take is more than AC nowadays. Empire Type II VP Racino in NYC take has been stunning. Enough for the owners to buy out the Echelon project from Boyd. I think it's a Malaysian outfit.
> > >
> > > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "richmontgomery138" <richmontgomery138@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Times must be difficult for revel last year I had a great borgata day and decided to check out revel with some of the winnings. It was right before the grand opening
> > > > Well I played for 30 minutes and lost some of the borgata winnings. Since then I have been getting offer like crazy. This week an umbrella one day and free tickets to see il divo and a room on another day
> > > > I guess they have to keep on trying to get me back
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
That seems to mean that anyone would be a lot smarter to play at 2 a.m.
Monday than at 8 p.m. on Saturday. Seems like a smart way to fleece the
larger crowds.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
···
On 4/14/2013 8:27 PM, Dave wrote:
Empire does not rig "vp" machines. They are Video Lottery Terminals
all connected together and the players are competing against each
other in a bingo game yype drawing. That's Class II gambling - A game
of chance. Skill does not effect outcome.
Class II gambling ONLY refers to Indian gaming. The racinos in New York are not Indian casinos and thus are not Class II gaming.
The video poker in New York at the racinos is not a random deal in accordance with the gaming regulations and the results of a draw in video poker are based on a lottery scratch card system.
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
From: mspevack@optonline.net
Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2013 21:48:59 -0400
Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Revel Atlantic city>
> Empire does not rig "vp" machines. They are Video Lottery Terminals
> all connected together and the players are competing against each
> other in a bingo game yype drawing. That's Class II gambling - A game
> of chance. Skill does not effect outcome.
>
That seems to mean that anyone would be a lot smarter to play at 2 a.m.
Monday than at 8 p.m. on Saturday. Seems like a smart way to fleece the
larger crowds.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
------------------------------------
vpFREE Links: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/V/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
···
On 4/14/2013 8:27 PM, Dave wrote:
Bally's and IGT and the other manufacturers were allowed to start making the fraudulent video poker machines years ago, supposedly the machines are never allowed across the Nevada or New Jersey state lines however, where they are technically illegal. In Nevada or New Jersey if you make a machine version of an actual casino game, like blackjack or poker or dice or roulette, the virtual odds have to match the physical odds. But somehow the games with wheel spins were allowed to sneak in, virtual wheels are almost always unevenly weighted, which would be fraud in a physical wheel. Those machines should have a disclaimer, something like: "wheel positions may not have an equal chance of hitting". There are some new slots with a bonus round that involves throwing virtual dice, I don't know if those correctly match physical dice or not as I've never tracked them, yet. The wizard has tips on how to track a slot machine:
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "richmontgomery138" <richmontgomery138@...> wrote:
Now your post brings up an interesting question regarding Empire and the hold. What if the slot hold is higher and the VP play is more true to being random and not fake?do you know the answer? And how does a casino rig a game king VP machine to cheat ?
I'm not challenging you but want more answers--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <haaljo@> wrote:
>
> On VPFREE or one of her daughter boards; has been noted that EMPIRE is required to hold 8% of VLT action. Correct it's a shitty payout but may actually be better than AC for slot player.
>
> If AC casino hold is reported at 8%, could be the slot machine hold is >10% while the VP hold is <5%.
> Empire is 8% for both slot and the fake VP.
> This could be noticeable and slot players would start to recognize the Empire machines are looser.
>
> Another nail in the AC coffin and force AC to reduce slot hold.
> But then again NY state could increase hold some rainy day.
>
> I think this is right. If VP action is a high percentage of total could be very significant. Never have seen percent of total action attributed to VP vs. one armed bandits.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <melbedewy1226@> wrote:
> >
> > Yeah I think NYC people have decided that if you're going to get shitty payouts in AC you might as well save the 2 hour trip and get them at home.
> > Still worth it if you can get a free room-although on that score Foxwoods is just as desperate in handing them out as AC.
> >
> > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <haaljo@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Grand opening of what? Revel has been open for a year now.
> > > "Times must be difficult" for Revel is an understatement. Pennsylvania take is more than AC nowadays. Empire Type II VP Racino in NYC take has been stunning. Enough for the owners to buy out the Echelon project from Boyd. I think it's a Malaysian outfit.
> > >
> > > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "richmontgomery138" <richmontgomery138@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Times must be difficult for revel last year I had a great borgata day and decided to check out revel with some of the winnings. It was right before the grand opening
> > > > Well I played for 30 minutes and lost some of the borgata winnings. Since then I have been getting offer like crazy. This week an umbrella one day and free tickets to see il divo and a room on another day
> > > > I guess they have to keep on trying to get me back
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
What do you call VLT's at non-indian casinos?
Empire is lottery scratch but that's the same as indian scrath card?
Here's a quote i googled from casinotime.com
"Indian casinos are able to offer bingo, scratch-off tickets, and pull-tabs games as long as the state allows charities to run those games. A Class II gaming device just puts a slot machine front on one of these games. Class II games require a central server to determine the outcome of a spin. A Class II machine does not determine the result of a spin; it just displays it."
.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, kelso 1600 <kelso1600@...> wrote:
Class II gambling ONLY refers to Indian gaming. The racinos in New York are not Indian casinos and thus are not Class II gaming.
The video poker in New York at the racinos is not a random deal in accordance with the gaming regulations and the results of a draw in video poker are based on a lottery scratch card system.
> To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> From: mspevack@...
> Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2013 21:48:59 -0400
> Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Revel Atlantic city
>
> On 4/14/2013 8:27 PM, Dave wrote:
> >
> > Empire does not rig "vp" machines. They are Video Lottery Terminals
> > all connected together and the players are competing against each
> > other in a bingo game yype drawing. That's Class II gambling - A game
> > of chance. Skill does not effect outcome.
> >
> That seems to mean that anyone would be a lot smarter to play at 2 a.m.
> Monday than at 8 p.m. on Saturday. Seems like a smart way to fleece the
> larger crowds.
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> vpFREE Links: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/V/Links.htm
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
A VLT at a non-Indian casino is just that -- a VLT. It may be a random deal or not. In most cases, it is a random deal. The only places that I know of off the top of my head where a VLT is not a random deal is New York and Washington State.
VLT only means that the machine is connected to a central server for accounting purposes which generally is due to regulatory reasons and the enabling legislation.
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
From: haaljo@yahoo.com
Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2013 05:16:16 +0000
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Revel Atlantic cityWhat do you call VLT's at non-indian casinos?
Empire is lottery scratch but that's the same as indian scrath card?
Here's a quote i googled from casinotime.com"Indian casinos are able to offer bingo, scratch-off tickets, and pull-tabs games as long as the state allows charities to run those games. A Class II gaming device just puts a slot machine front on one of these games. Class II games require a central server to determine the outcome of a spin. A Class II machine does not determine the result of a spin; it just displays it."
.
>
> Class II gambling ONLY refers to Indian gaming. The racinos in New York are not Indian casinos and thus are not Class II gaming.
>
> The video poker in New York at the racinos is not a random deal in accordance with the gaming regulations and the results of a draw in video poker are based on a lottery scratch card system.
>
>
>
> > To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> > From: mspevack@...
> > Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2013 21:48:59 -0400
> > Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Revel Atlantic city
> >
> > >
> > > Empire does not rig "vp" machines. They are Video Lottery Terminals
> > > all connected together and the players are competing against each
> > > other in a bingo game yype drawing. That's Class II gambling - A game
> > > of chance. Skill does not effect outcome.
> > >
> > That seems to mean that anyone would be a lot smarter to play at 2 a.m.
> > Monday than at 8 p.m. on Saturday. Seems like a smart way to fleece the
> > larger crowds.
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > vpFREE Links: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/V/Links.htm
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>------------------------------------
vpFREE Links: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/V/Links.htm
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, kelso 1600 <kelso1600@...> wrote:
> > On 4/14/2013 8:27 PM, Dave wrote:
Until the state shut them down, Alabama also had video poker based upon bingo draws at some of their racinos. Making the "genie" appear on purpose was amusing, but displaying a 9/6 DDB paytable, not so much.
As for NY, any penny slot player really should be playing there vs. AC. The state mandates a minimum 90% return. Penny slots in AC are probably returning closer to 87% right now. The slots on a VLT play very similar to a slot determined by a RNG.
People that seriously play video poker though, should obviously avoid state-run racinos in NY since THEY doesn't follow the normal probabilities of a poker deck.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, kelso 1600 <kelso1600@...> wrote:
A VLT at a non-Indian casino is just that -- a VLT. It may be a random deal or not. In most cases, it is a random deal. The only places that I know of off the top of my head where a VLT is not a random deal is New York and Washington State.
VLT only means that the machine is connected to a central server for accounting purposes which generally is due to regulatory reasons and the enabling legislation.
Twin Rivers in Rhode Island is not a fair deal at least when I went there to check it out 15 year ago. Also, as I remember Rhode Island sets the E.V. at .80 (20
I am told by a vpfree member that Dover Downs is a fair deal (and not a bad trip destination as it has some decent VP and never been to Delaware).
President Obama just started to speak. Signing off 
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, kelso 1600 <kelso1600@...> wrote:
A VLT at a non-Indian casino is just that -- a VLT. It may be a random deal or not. In most cases, it is a random deal. The only places that I know of off the top of my head where a VLT is not a random deal is New York and Washington State.
VLT only means that the machine is connected to a central server for accounting purposes which generally is due to regulatory reasons and the enabling legislation.
> To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> From: haaljo@...
> Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2013 05:16:16 +0000
> Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Revel Atlantic city
>
> What do you call VLT's at non-indian casinos?
> Empire is lottery scratch but that's the same as indian scrath card?
> Here's a quote i googled from casinotime.com
>
> "Indian casinos are able to offer bingo, scratch-off tickets, and pull-tabs games as long as the state allows charities to run those games. A Class II gaming device just puts a slot machine front on one of these games. Class II games require a central server to determine the outcome of a spin. A Class II machine does not determine the result of a spin; it just displays it."
>
> .
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, kelso 1600 <kelso1600@> wrote:
> >
> > Class II gambling ONLY refers to Indian gaming. The racinos in New York are not Indian casinos and thus are not Class II gaming.
> >
> > The video poker in New York at the racinos is not a random deal in accordance with the gaming regulations and the results of a draw in video poker are based on a lottery scratch card system.
> >
> >
> >
> > > To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> > > From: mspevack@
> > > Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2013 21:48:59 -0400
> > > Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Revel Atlantic city
> > >
> > > On 4/14/2013 8:27 PM, Dave wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Empire does not rig "vp" machines. They are Video Lottery Terminals
> > > > all connected together and the players are competing against each
> > > > other in a bingo game yype drawing. That's Class II gambling - A game
> > > > of chance. Skill does not effect outcome.
> > > >
> > > That seems to mean that anyone would be a lot smarter to play at 2 a.m.
> > > Monday than at 8 p.m. on Saturday. Seems like a smart way to fleece the
> > > larger crowds.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > vpFREE Links: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/V/Links.htm
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> vpFREE Links: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/V/Links.htm
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
At one of the casinos I monitor for vpfree, there is a video slot with a
stud poker side bet. If you read the help screen it will tell you that the
poker hands do not occur in accordance with the expected probabilities from
a normally dealt deck of cards.
···
From: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com [mailto:vpF…@…com] On Behalf Of
nightoftheiguana2000
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 11:23 PM
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Revel Atlantic city
Bally's and IGT and the other manufacturers were allowed to start making the
fraudulent video poker machines years ago, supposedly the machines are never
allowed across the Nevada or New Jersey state lines however, where they are
technically illegal. In Nevada or New Jersey if you make a machine version
of an actual casino game, like blackjack or poker or dice or roulette, the
virtual odds have to match the physical odds. But somehow the games with
wheel spins were allowed to sneak in, virtual wheels are almost always
unevenly weighted, which would be fraud in a physical wheel. Those machines
should have a disclaimer, something like: "wheel positions may not have an
equal chance of hitting". There are some new slots with a bonus round that
involves throwing virtual dice, I don't know if those correctly match
physical dice or not as I've never tracked them, yet. The wizard has tips on
how to track a slot machine:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"richmontgomery138" <richmontgomery138@...> wrote:
Now your post brings up an interesting question regarding Empire and the
hold. What if the slot hold is higher and the VP play is more true to being
random and not fake?do you know the answer? And how does a casino rig a game
king VP machine to cheat ?
I'm not challenging you but want more answers
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com> , "Dave"
<haaljo@> wrote:
>
> On VPFREE or one of her daughter boards; has been noted that EMPIRE is
required to hold 8% of VLT action. Correct it's a shitty payout but may
actually be better than AC for slot player.
>
> If AC casino hold is reported at 8%, could be the slot machine hold is
10% while the VP hold is <5%.
> Empire is 8% for both slot and the fake VP.
> This could be noticeable and slot players would start to recognize the
Empire machines are looser.
>
> Another nail in the AC coffin and force AC to reduce slot hold.
> But then again NY state could increase hold some rainy day.
>
> I think this is right. If VP action is a high percentage of total could
be very significant. Never have seen percent of total action attributed to
VP vs. one armed bandits.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com> , "mike"
<melbedewy1226@> wrote:
> >
> > Yeah I think NYC people have decided that if you're going to get
shitty payouts in AC you might as well save the 2 hour trip and get them at
home.
> > Still worth it if you can get a free room-although on that score
Foxwoods is just as desperate in handing them out as AC.
> >
> > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"Dave" <haaljo@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Grand opening of what? Revel has been open for a year now.
> > > "Times must be difficult" for Revel is an understatement.
Pennsylvania take is more than AC nowadays. Empire Type II VP Racino in NYC
take has been stunning. Enough for the owners to buy out the Echelon project
from Boyd. I think it's a Malaysian outfit.
> > >
> > > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com <mailto:vpFREE%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"richmontgomery138" <richmontgomery138@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Times must be difficult for revel last year I had a great borgata
day and decided to check out revel with some of the winnings. It was right
before the grand opening
> > > > Well I played for 30 minutes and lost some of the borgata
winnings. Since then I have been getting offer like crazy. This week an
umbrella one day and free tickets to see il divo and a room on another day
> > > > I guess they have to keep on trying to get me back
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
On "quick hits" slot machines, the number of "free games" is determined by picking 3 matching squares. The wizard I believe has said that the slot machine win is determined when you pull the handle and the number of free games is also determined at that time (as well as the total win). I tell my wife this is so.
She disagrees and spends way too much time picking squares.
The QH slot machines have emptied out. Used to be crowded and they appeared to be "loose" until sometime last year. Think mgmt increased their hold to take advantage of their popularity.
Killed the golden goose?
But I do like the music when its counting up a win.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "nightoftheiguana2000" <nightoftheiguana2000@...> wrote:
Bally's and IGT and the other manufacturers were allowed to start making the fraudulent video poker machines years ago, supposedly the machines are never allowed across the Nevada or New Jersey state lines however, where they are technically illegal. In Nevada or New Jersey if you make a machine version of an actual casino game, like blackjack or poker or dice or roulette, the virtual odds have to match the physical odds. But somehow the games with wheel spins were allowed to sneak in, virtual wheels are almost always unevenly weighted, which would be fraud in a physical wheel. Those machines should have a disclaimer, something like: "wheel positions may not have an equal chance of hitting". There are some new slots with a bonus round that involves throwing virtual dice, I don't know if those correctly match physical dice or not as I've never tracked them, yet. The wizard has tips on how to track a slot machine:
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "richmontgomery138" <richmontgomery138@> wrote:
>
> Now your post brings up an interesting question regarding Empire and the hold. What if the slot hold is higher and the VP play is more true to being random and not fake?do you know the answer? And how does a casino rig a game king VP machine to cheat ?
> I'm not challenging you but want more answers
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <haaljo@> wrote:
> >
> > On VPFREE or one of her daughter boards; has been noted that EMPIRE is required to hold 8% of VLT action. Correct it's a shitty payout but may actually be better than AC for slot player.
> >
> > If AC casino hold is reported at 8%, could be the slot machine hold is >10% while the VP hold is <5%.
> > Empire is 8% for both slot and the fake VP.
> > This could be noticeable and slot players would start to recognize the Empire machines are looser.
> >
> > Another nail in the AC coffin and force AC to reduce slot hold.
> > But then again NY state could increase hold some rainy day.
> >
> > I think this is right. If VP action is a high percentage of total could be very significant. Never have seen percent of total action attributed to VP vs. one armed bandits.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mike" <melbedewy1226@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Yeah I think NYC people have decided that if you're going to get shitty payouts in AC you might as well save the 2 hour trip and get them at home.
> > > Still worth it if you can get a free room-although on that score Foxwoods is just as desperate in handing them out as AC.
> > >
> > > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <haaljo@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Grand opening of what? Revel has been open for a year now.
> > > > "Times must be difficult" for Revel is an understatement. Pennsylvania take is more than AC nowadays. Empire Type II VP Racino in NYC take has been stunning. Enough for the owners to buy out the Echelon project from Boyd. I think it's a Malaysian outfit.
> > > >
> > > > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "richmontgomery138" <richmontgomery138@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Times must be difficult for revel last year I had a great borgata day and decided to check out revel with some of the winnings. It was right before the grand opening
> > > > > Well I played for 30 minutes and lost some of the borgata winnings. Since then I have been getting offer like crazy. This week an umbrella one day and free tickets to see il divo and a room on another day
> > > > > I guess they have to keep on trying to get me back
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Twin River slots pay out about 92%, which can be confirmed at the American Casino Guide site. Much better for penny slots than MS or FW.
The problem is they give you shit for your play-I think it's like $800 coin in for a comp dollar. Don't forget the state tax is around 61%-10 times more or less Nevada and NJ.
···
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <haaljo@...> wrote:
Twin Rivers in Rhode Island is not a fair deal at least when I went there to check it out 15 year ago. Also, as I remember Rhode Island sets the E.V. at .80 (20
I am told by a vpfree member that Dover Downs is a fair deal (and not a bad trip destination as it has some decent VP and never been to Delaware).
President Obama just started to speak. Signing off--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, kelso 1600 <kelso1600@> wrote:
>
> A VLT at a non-Indian casino is just that -- a VLT. It may be a random deal or not. In most cases, it is a random deal. The only places that I know of off the top of my head where a VLT is not a random deal is New York and Washington State.
>
> VLT only means that the machine is connected to a central server for accounting purposes which generally is due to regulatory reasons and the enabling legislation.
>
> > To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> > From: haaljo@
> > Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2013 05:16:16 +0000
> > Subject: [vpFREE] Re: Revel Atlantic city
> >
> > What do you call VLT's at non-indian casinos?
> > Empire is lottery scratch but that's the same as indian scrath card?
> > Here's a quote i googled from casinotime.com
> >
> > "Indian casinos are able to offer bingo, scratch-off tickets, and pull-tabs games as long as the state allows charities to run those games. A Class II gaming device just puts a slot machine front on one of these games. Class II games require a central server to determine the outcome of a spin. A Class II machine does not determine the result of a spin; it just displays it."
> >
> > .
> >
> > --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, kelso 1600 <kelso1600@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Class II gambling ONLY refers to Indian gaming. The racinos in New York are not Indian casinos and thus are not Class II gaming.
> > >
> > > The video poker in New York at the racinos is not a random deal in accordance with the gaming regulations and the results of a draw in video poker are based on a lottery scratch card system.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
> > > > From: mspevack@
> > > > Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2013 21:48:59 -0400
> > > > Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Revel Atlantic city
> > > >
> > > > On 4/14/2013 8:27 PM, Dave wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Empire does not rig "vp" machines. They are Video Lottery Terminals
> > > > > all connected together and the players are competing against each
> > > > > other in a bingo game yype drawing. That's Class II gambling - A game
> > > > > of chance. Skill does not effect outcome.
> > > > >
> > > > That seems to mean that anyone would be a lot smarter to play at 2 a.m.
> > > > Monday than at 8 p.m. on Saturday. Seems like a smart way to fleece the
> > > > larger crowds.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > vpFREE Links: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/V/Links.htm
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > vpFREE Links: http://www.west-point.org/users/usma1955/20228/V/Links.htm
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>