vpFREE2 Forums

Result-recording Software; Available?

Appears to me that one of the potential "issues" with playing VP
for "more than quarters" is possibility of collecting a single-hand
payoff of $1200 or more; resulting in a w2-g.

If this happened, entire amount would be taxable income; to recover
prior losses, one would have to itemize deductions and have
acceptable records (created at/near time of occurence) of the
losses.

Is there any "good" writeup available of specifically what the IRS
would expect to see? (For simplicity, assuming that player is NOT
claiming that gambling activities constitute a "business").

Related, is any publicly-available software package "well-suited" to
maintenance of such records? This would, most likely, also need
ability to record wins/losses from other forms of wagering
(blackjack, etc.). (And, for best utility, would tend to include
specific game conditions, etc).

Appears to me that one of the potential "issues" with playing VP
for "more than quarters" is possibility of collecting a single-

hand

payoff of $1200 or more; resulting in a w2-g.

If this happened, entire amount would be taxable income; to

recover

prior losses, one would have to itemize deductions and have
acceptable records (created at/near time of occurence) of the
losses.

Is there any "good" writeup available of specifically what the IRS
would expect to see? (For simplicity, assuming that player is NOT
claiming that gambling activities constitute a "business").

Related, is any publicly-available software package "well-suited"

to

maintenance of such records? This would, most likely, also need
ability to record wins/losses from other forms of wagering
(blackjack, etc.). (And, for best utility, would tend to include
specific game conditions, etc).

There is a rather expensive pamphlet dealing with such tax
issues: "THE TAX GUIDE FOR GAMBLERS" (4th ed.)
by Roger Roche and Yolanda Smulik Roche, which can be ordered from
the gamblers bookstore. /www.gamblersbook.com

Below is a paragraph I previously wrote outling on rather serious
tax issue you should be aware of:

"Even if you keep accurate records you can get screwed
by the taxman. Say you play high stakes video poker or
slots. Assume you have 1M of losses and 1M of wins
(represented by W-2Gs*) in 2002 so that you are even
for the year. Assume you have employment income of
100T and no other income or deductions. In this case
your adjusted gross income will be 1.1M and you must
treat the gambling losses of 1M as an itemized
deduction. Because of a provision in the Internal
Revenue Code known as the phase-out of itemized
deductions (Section 68), your itemized deduction of 1M
for gambling losses will be reduced by $28,881 ([1.1M
AGI - $137,300] x.03). Thus you will have phantom
income of $28,881 as well as no personal exemptions
(which are also subject to a phase-out) resulting in a
substantial excess tax bill.

Note that the IRS allows taxpayer who are professional
gamblers to treat the gambling income on a Schedule C
(trade/business income), netting the gambling income
and expense as part of adjusted gross income**.
However someone with employment income is generally
not eligible for such treatment.

Such taxation represents an outdated attitude towards
gambling, which was once frowned upon by the various
levels of government and is now actively promoted.

* W-2Gs are given on slot or VP wins of $1,200 or more
and withholding is mandatory for wins of $5,000 or
more.

**[Note further that net losses for the year still
can't be carried forward or backwards even for
professional gamblers.] "

David

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "sphboc2003" <sphboc@a...> wrote:

Don't know of any software for this. But Marissa and I are putting out a book in January called "Tax Help for the Frugal Gambler." Will be published by Huntington Press - and have sample diaries, tax forms, etc., as well as discussion of all issues.

···

____________________
Jean $cott - "The Frugal Gambler"
MORE FRUGAL GAMBLING can now
be ordered, autographed, at
http://www.FrugalGambler.biz

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<<There is a rather expensive pamphlet dealing with such tax
issues: "THE TAX GUIDE FOR GAMBLERS" (4th ed.)
by Roger Roche and Yolanda Smulik Roche, which can be ordered from
the gamblers bookstore. /www.gamblersbook.com>>

I used this as a reference book for a couple of years. However, it is geared mainly for live poker players. You can tell they aren't familiar with the details of machine play. Plus I think it hasn't been updated for a couple of years.

This is the reason why Marissa and I decided to write a tax book. For one thing, Marissa is a gambler herself, familiar with machine play and other types of gambling - AND she is a tax preparer - and is up on all the current rulings and court cases. She is an Enrolled Agent and has had experienced in dealing with the IRS on behalf of gamblers.

···

____________________
Jean $cott - "The Frugal Gambler"
MORE FRUGAL GAMBLING can now
be ordered, autographed, at
http://www.FrugalGambler.biz

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Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.538 / Virus Database: 333 - Release Date: 11/10/2003

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You are correct about the personal exemptions being phased out but if you look at the instructions for schedule a http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1040sa.pdf you will see that gambling losses are not subject to phaseout although some other itemized deductions are.

Robert with H & R Block in Boca Raton Florida

···

----- Original Message -----

  "Even if you keep accurate records you can get screwed
  by the taxman. Say you play high stakes video poker or
  slots. Assume you have 1M of losses and 1M of wins
  (represented by W-2Gs*) in 2002 so that you are even
  for the year. Assume you have employment income of
  100T and no other income or deductions. In this case
  your adjusted gross income will be 1.1M and you must
  treat the gambling losses of 1M as an itemized
  deduction. Because of a provision in the Internal
  Revenue Code known as the phase-out of itemized
  deductions (Section 68), your itemized deduction of 1M
  for gambling losses will be reduced by $28,881 ([1.1M
  AGI - $137,300] x.03). Thus you will have phantom
  income of $28,881 as well as no personal exemptions
  (which are also subject to a phase-out) resulting in a
  substantial excess tax bill.