vpFREE2 Forums

Reno Sienna $200 loss rebate plus upgraded player status

#1

Thanks for posting this.

For loss rebates some people advocate playing a higher denomination and higher variance game than you normally would. Others are more conservative. Quit when you've reached the loss limit or have a sizeable win.

For example, I believe Harry Porter posted here recently that he played the Riviera $1000 loss rebate on the $1 8/6 Bonus Deluxe and quit when he had a $600 win.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Tahoe Local" <att@...> wrote:

Sienna is offering a $200 loss rebate on actual slot loss payable 50% 1st and 2nd day after play. Plus they will upgrade your status to any other slot club level. Here are the details:

http://imgur.com/XIeOr

Maybe someone more seasoned can explain the best way to go about using this loss rebate offer.

#2

I see three reasonable alternate strategies for playing a loss rebate promotion:

Playing for the highest jackpot possible (while seeking out a strong underlying paytable) likely yields the strongest EV. Most of the time you'll crap out on the play in short order, but when you do hit, it'll be a gangbuster hit.

Alternatively, you can seek to reliably get as much coin-in from the play as possible ... with an eye to cashing out subsequent residual offers with no subsequent play.

Finally, you can look to the loss rebate as quasi-freeplay that you use to economically establish a first time visit, with an eye to becoming a repeat patron at the property.

(My strategy at Riviera was a bastardized mix of these ... while highest EV would come from playing $5 or higher vp, or perhaps a $100 slot, the desire for "instant gratification" led me to a play that had a greater probability of a positive cash out on a single play. Plus, if the play should extend into a longer session, there's the possibility to residual offer cashouts.

- H.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "H. F." <sector7up2@...> wrote:

Thanks for posting this.

For loss rebates some people advocate playing a higher denomination and higher variance game than you normally would. Others are more conservative. Quit when you've reached the loss limit or have a sizeable win.

For example, I believe Harry Porter posted here recently that he played the Riviera $1000 loss rebate on the $1 8/6 Bonus Deluxe and quit when he had a $600 win.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Tahoe Local" <att@> wrote:
>
> Sienna is offering a $200 loss rebate on actual slot loss payable 50% 1st and 2nd day after play. Plus they will upgrade your status to any other slot club level. Here are the details:
>
> http://imgur.com/XIeOr
>
> Maybe someone more seasoned can explain the best way to go about using this loss rebate offer.

#3

I recently played a $500 loss rebate promo and referred back to this thread with some similar thoughts. For several reasons having to do with this play and casino I simply looked at it as free roll money and discounted the $500 loss rebate value (given in FP vouchers) to about $495 based on the best available game. I got a little lucky and hit bonus quads with kicker early on, and decided to lock it up. Got out of the casino and took a nice walk in the nearby forest preserve. It got me to wondering, though, if there was an optimal time to quit in these types of promotions? Obviously one stops at the promotion's loss limit... but if you are winning?

Chandler

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vp_wiz" <harry.porter@...> wrote:

I see three reasonable alternate strategies for playing a loss rebate promotion:

#4

>
> I see three reasonable alternate strategies for playing a loss rebate promotion:

I recently played a $500 loss rebate promo and referred back to this thread with some similar thoughts. For several reasons having to do with this play and casino I simply looked at it as free roll money and discounted the $500 loss rebate value (given in FP vouchers) to about $495 based on the best available game. I got a little lucky and hit bonus quads with kicker early on, and decided to lock it up. Got out of the casino and took a nice walk in the nearby forest preserve. It got me to wondering, though, if there was an optimal time to quit in these types of promotions? Obviously one stops at the promotion's loss limit... but if you are winning?

Chandler

In playing the Riviera $500 loss rebate promo for new members, Bev & I opted for $1 BDlx, balancing goals of hopefully coming away a little to the good, plus targeting an extended session that yielded residual value on back end offers. (Again, max EV strategy would be more aggressive high denom play.)

In the event of a winning session, the loss rebate loses value as your meter climbs. I made a gut assessment that an appropriate cash out strategy was at a $600 win.

We were each fortunate to achieve this win target ... Bev cashing out in 15 minutes, hitting two quads in short order (and ending up with weak mailers), I ran play through for close to 90 minutes before my cashout, scoring a 5 night offer with $100/night in FP.

- H.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Chandler" <chandler_re@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vp_wiz" <harry.porter@> wrote:

#5

That is interesting. I had the same $600 figure in mind while entering my play. I basically pulled it out of my butt... er, gut. Based on some experience with $DDB and what it can do to a $500 session stake. I was hoping that the better trained and more nimble minds (certainly better than my poor intrument) of vpFREE could apply some methodology. It's instinctive for me, but it is well worth positing explicitly that the rebate loses value as your win increases, and absent other advantages, the reason to continue play decreases. Taken to ridiculous extremes, a rebate offer after a royal hit is virtually worthless and after a $5 net win still has most of its' value. TY, H.

Chandler

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vp_wiz" <harry.porter@...> wrote:

In playing the Riviera $500 loss rebate promo for new members, Bev & I opted for $1 BDlx, balancing goals of hopefully coming away a little to the good, plus targeting an extended session that yielded residual value on back end offers. (Again, max EV strategy would be more aggressive high denom play.)

In the event of a winning session, the loss rebate loses value as your meter climbs. I made a gut assessment that an appropriate cash out strategy was at a $600 win.

We were each fortunate to achieve this win target ... Bev cashing out in 15 minutes, hitting two quads in short order (and ending up with weak mailers), I ran play through for close to 90 minutes before my cashout, scoring a 5 night offer with $100/night in FP.

- H.

#6

For a one time shot promotion such as this, with moderate value, my inclination is to go with a "visceral" estimate of the math rather than fine tune things. But I imagine that were I to look for an optimal cash out value I'd start with the fact that the EV of any particular cash out strategy = probability of a successful cashout x the average expected cashout.

From there, I'd resort to "monte carlo" simulation, and use a vp tutor such as winpoker to run through computer runs (at a practical increment of something like 50 hands at a time) to arrive at fair estimates of those values (prob / avg cashout) for a range of reasonable cashout targets.

A little cumbersome of an exercise, but hardly an unreasonable one if the stakes are sufficiently sizable.

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Chandler" <chandler_re@...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "vp_wiz" <harry.porter@> wrote:

>
> In playing the Riviera $500 loss rebate promo for new members, Bev & I opted for $1 BDlx, balancing goals of hopefully coming away a little to the good, plus targeting an extended session that yielded residual value on back end offers. (Again, max EV strategy would be more aggressive high denom play.)
>
> In the event of a winning session, the loss rebate loses value as your meter climbs. I made a gut assessment that an appropriate cash out strategy was at a $600 win.
>
> We were each fortunate to achieve this win target ... Bev cashing out in 15 minutes, hitting two quads in short order (and ending up with weak mailers), I ran play through for close to 90 minutes before my cashout, scoring a 5 night offer with $100/night in FP.
>
> - H.

That is interesting. I had the same $600 figure in mind while entering my play. I basically pulled it out of my butt... er, gut. Based on some experience with $DDB and what it can do to a $500 session stake. I was hoping that the better trained and more nimble minds (certainly better than my poor intrument) of vpFREE could apply some methodology. It's instinctive for me, but it is well worth positing explicitly that the rebate loses value as your win increases, and absent other advantages, the reason to continue play decreases. Taken to ridiculous extremes, a rebate offer after a royal hit is virtually worthless and after a $5 net win still has most of its' value. TY, H.

Chandler