vpFREE2 Forums

Reduced Paytables --- Strategies

#1

With all these "Reduced Paytables" going on, do we
still follow the same Strategies as used in "Full Pay"
or do we make changes?

It would be nice if the next version of WinPoker will
have both "Full Pay" and "Reduced Pay" games/machines
already predefined instead of the users redefining
them as a separate step.

For example:
DB 10/7 and 9/7 are there already as well as the
Strategy for them.
How about DB 9/6 or 9/5 ?? Use the same strategy
or???

Thanks.

···

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#2

<<With all these "Reduced Paytables" going on, do we
still follow the same Strategies as used in "Full Pay"
or do we make changes? It would be nice if the next version of WinPoker will
have both "Full Pay" and "Reduced Pay" games/machines
already predefined instead of the users redefining
them as a separate step.For example:
DB 10/7 and 9/7 are there already as well as the
Strategy for them.
How about DB 9/6 or 9/5 ?? Use the same strategy
or???>>

Don't know whether you are confusing WinPoker with Frugal VP software. WinPoker does not give any strategies; FVP does.

On FVP it is very easy to take a standard full-pay schedule and click on "Change payoff tables." Then you can make a strategy chart for this new schedule, both for practicing and then print out to take to the casino.

···

____________________
Jean $cott - "The Frugal Gambler"
Order autographed book, cassette tape, and the new
   Frugal VP software at http://www.frugalgambler.biz
Read Frugal Fridays at http://www.lasvegasadvisor.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#3

Gilbert,

I've been scratching my head over this one. . .

Are you saying that you are defining a new game for each paytable?
It's so much easier to just go into "Options" , then "Change Pay
Tables". Takes just a few seconds.

And, yes, the strategies do change somewhat for different pay tables
on the same game.

Marsha

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Gilbert Escobar <gilbert_616@y...>
wrote:

···

With all these "Reduced Paytables" going on, do we
still follow the same Strategies as used in "Full Pay"
or do we make changes?

It would be nice if the next version of WinPoker will
have both "Full Pay" and "Reduced Pay" games/machines
already predefined instead of the users redefining
them as a separate step.

For example:
DB 10/7 and 9/7 are there already as well as the
Strategy for them.
How about DB 9/6 or 9/5 ?? Use the same strategy
or???

Thanks.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

#4

Marsha,

Thanks for your input!
Yes, it is very easy to just change the Pay Tables
from the Options menu, but that's the extra step I was
talking about. WinPoker, as I recall, has DB 10/7 and
9/7, for example, but not a DB 9/6. In short, the
games included in WinPoker are mainly the "Full Pay"
ones. The user has to make changes or define new
games for the "non-Full Pay" games (not a hard thing
to do, just another extra thing to do). I just
thought that for each "Full Pay" game, maybe it's a
good thing to have a pre-defined "non-Full Pay" game
so that we can all see what the differences are
"Strategywise", if any.

If you don't mind, can you give examples of those
Strategy changes (any game) when the Pay Tables are
reduced?

Appreciate your help very much!
Thanks again.

Gilbert

--- "mcuddington <mcuddington@hotmail.com>"

···

<mcuddington@hotmail.com> wrote:

Gilbert,

I've been scratching my head over this one. . .

Are you saying that you are defining a new game for
each paytable?
It's so much easier to just go into "Options" , then
"Change Pay
Tables". Takes just a few seconds.

And, yes, the strategies do change somewhat for
different pay tables
on the same game.

Marsha

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Gilbert Escobar
<gilbert_616@y...>
wrote:
> With all these "Reduced Paytables" going on, do we
> still follow the same Strategies as used in "Full
Pay"
> or do we make changes?
>
> It would be nice if the next version of WinPoker
will
> have both "Full Pay" and "Reduced Pay"
games/machines
> already predefined instead of the users redefining
> them as a separate step.
>
> For example:
> DB 10/7 and 9/7 are there already as well as the
> Strategy for them.
> How about DB 9/6 or 9/5 ?? Use the same strategy
> or???
>
> Thanks.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up
now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
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#5

The most prevalent in my mind is the change in the 3-card flush draws
in 10/7 DB vs. 9/6 DB. In 10/7 the 3 card hold is usually the
correct play when there are two unsuited high cards, but in 9/6 the
strategy changes to hold both high cards (or two to the SF/RF).
Examples:

Ah 5c 6h Qd 8h - 10/7 hold the 3 hearts, in 9/6 hold AQ
6c 2h Qc 5d Ac - 10/7 hold the clubs, 9/6 hold AQ
10d 6c Qd 2d 8h - 10/7 hold the diamonds, 9/6 hold TQ

Hope that helps. Perhaps others can offer more/better advice, since
I'm no Bob Dancer wannabe!

Regards,
Marsha

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Gilbert Escobar <gilbert_616@y...>
wrote:
snip

···

If you don't mind, can you give examples of those
Strategy changes (any game) when the Pay Tables are
reduced?

snip

#6

I have used WinPoker to analyze almost every conceivable pay schedule
WITHOUT defining a new game. Just change whatever schule there is to
what you want. Takes no time at all

···

On Fri, 31 Jan 2003 08:18:19 -0800 (PST), you wrote:

Marsha,

Thanks for your input!
Yes, it is very easy to just change the Pay Tables
from the Options menu, but that's the extra step I was
talking about. WinPoker, as I recall, has DB 10/7 and
9/7, for example, but not a DB 9/6. In short, the
games included in WinPoker are mainly the "Full Pay"
ones. The user has to make changes or define new
games for the "non-Full Pay" games (not a hard thing
to do, just another extra thing to do). I just
thought that for each "Full Pay" game, maybe it's a
good thing to have a pre-defined "non-Full Pay" game
so that we can all see what the differences are
"Strategywise", if any.

If you don't mind, can you give examples of those
Strategy changes (any game) when the Pay Tables are
reduced?

Appreciate your help very much!
Thanks again.

Gilbert

--- "mcuddington <mcuddington@hotmail.com>"
<mcuddington@hotmail.com> wrote:

Gilbert,

I've been scratching my head over this one. . .

Are you saying that you are defining a new game for
each paytable?
It's so much easier to just go into "Options" , then
"Change Pay
Tables". Takes just a few seconds.

And, yes, the strategies do change somewhat for
different pay tables
on the same game.

Marsha

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Gilbert Escobar
<gilbert_616@y...>
wrote:
> With all these "Reduced Paytables" going on, do we
> still follow the same Strategies as used in "Full
Pay"
> or do we make changes?
>
> It would be nice if the next version of WinPoker
will
> have both "Full Pay" and "Reduced Pay"
games/machines
> already predefined instead of the users redefining
> them as a separate step.
>
> For example:
> DB 10/7 and 9/7 are there already as well as the
> Strategy for them.
> How about DB 9/6 or 9/5 ?? Use the same strategy
> or???
>
> Thanks.
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up
now.
> http://mailplus.yahoo.com

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#7

The advice from many here would probably be like "If
it's not 'Full-Pay', don't play at all.". That's
sounds pretty easy to do also, but considering the
100s of miles some people have to travel to get to
vegas, and getting stuck at places where very very few
"Full-Pay" machines are available (if so, they are
always taken), do you tell yourself "okay, time to
switch to Wheel-of-Fortune or Blazing 777s"? Probably
not...since the casino edge is still lower on those
Reduced Pay VP machines. Therefore, it will be nice to
know the alternative Strategies!

Full Pay vs. non-Full Pay question:
Is it possible or do casinos program these machines so
that the non-Full Pay machines are much looser than
the Full Pay ones (sometimes), just to show players
that they don't have to be looking for the Full Pay
machines all the time?

--- "mcuddington <mcuddington@hotmail.com>"

···

<mcuddington@hotmail.com> wrote:

The most prevalent in my mind is the change in the
3-card flush draws
in 10/7 DB vs. 9/6 DB. In 10/7 the 3 card hold is
usually the
correct play when there are two unsuited high cards,
but in 9/6 the
strategy changes to hold both high cards (or two to
the SF/RF).
Examples:

Ah 5c 6h Qd 8h - 10/7 hold the 3 hearts, in 9/6 hold
AQ
6c 2h Qc 5d Ac - 10/7 hold the clubs, 9/6 hold AQ
10d 6c Qd 2d 8h - 10/7 hold the diamonds, 9/6 hold
TQ

Hope that helps. Perhaps others can offer
more/better advice, since
I'm no Bob Dancer wannabe!

Regards,
Marsha

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Gilbert Escobar
<gilbert_616@y...>
wrote:
snip
> If you don't mind, can you give examples of those
> Strategy changes (any game) when the Pay Tables
are
> reduced?
>
> snip

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#8

The real option is to realize playing not really that fun & not play
if no good machines. We are talking $$ here. The answer to the Q is
no, they have no reason to at all.
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Gilbert Escobar <gilbert_616@y...>
wrote:

···

The advice from many here would probably be like "If
it's not 'Full-Pay', don't play at all.". That's
sounds pretty easy to do also, but considering the
100s of miles some people have to travel to get to
vegas, and getting stuck at places where very very few
"Full-Pay" machines are available (if so, they are
always taken), do you tell yourself "okay, time to
switch to Wheel-of-Fortune or Blazing 777s"? Probably
not...since the casino edge is still lower on those
Reduced Pay VP machines. Therefore, it will be nice to
know the alternative Strategies!

Full Pay vs. non-Full Pay question:
Is it possible or do casinos program these machines so
that the non-Full Pay machines are much looser than
the Full Pay ones (sometimes), just to show players
that they don't have to be looking for the Full Pay
machines all the time?

--- "mcuddington <mcuddington@h...>"
<mcuddington@h...> wrote:
> The most prevalent in my mind is the change in the
> 3-card flush draws
> in 10/7 DB vs. 9/6 DB. In 10/7 the 3 card hold is
> usually the
> correct play when there are two unsuited high cards,
> but in 9/6 the
> strategy changes to hold both high cards (or two to
> the SF/RF).
> Examples:
>
> Ah 5c 6h Qd 8h - 10/7 hold the 3 hearts, in 9/6 hold
> AQ
> 6c 2h Qc 5d Ac - 10/7 hold the clubs, 9/6 hold AQ
> 10d 6c Qd 2d 8h - 10/7 hold the diamonds, 9/6 hold
> TQ
>
> Hope that helps. Perhaps others can offer
> more/better advice, since
> I'm no Bob Dancer wannabe!
>
> Regards,
> Marsha
>
>
> --- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Gilbert Escobar
> <gilbert_616@y...>
> wrote:
> snip
> > If you don't mind, can you give examples of those
> > Strategy changes (any game) when the Pay Tables
> are
> > reduced?
> >
> > snip
>
>

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#9

  > Full Pay vs. non-Full Pay question:
  > Is it possible or do casinos program these machines so
  > that the non-Full Pay machines are much looser than
  > the Full Pay ones (sometimes), just to show players
  > that they don't have to be looking for the Full Pay
  > machines all the time

  I have heard many variants of this before. Some people think the casinos
put in the 'tight' chips on the weekend or over holidays. I know some folks
believe the poor paytables give more jackpots. None of this is correct. The
algorithm for generating cards is a random-number-gernerator. By the very
definition of random, we know that all machines are equally likely to
produce a jackpot. This is mandated by law.

  Of course, it is technically possible to do all of these things. However,
the casinos would be breaking the law if they did this. Cheating has
occurred, but it has not been common.

  QZ

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#10

I have used WinPoker to analyze almost every conceivable pay schedule
WITHOUT defining a new game. Just change whatever schule there is to
what you want. Takes no time at all

I do as well, Elliot!

Can you imagine the huge drop down menu with so many different/same games on
said menu?

···

Subject: Re: [vpFREE] Re: Reduced Paytables --- Strategies