vpFREE2 Forums

reason to worry??

#1

I've been following this group for a little while now and have picked
up many interesting tips and ideas. However after the latest posts
regarding the FPDW at Wynn I'm a little worried about my upcoming trip
to Vegas in October. I'm going to Vegas for a much needed personal
vacation, and during that time I'd like to play some video poker; more
to the point I'd like to actually sit down at a machine with a
favorable paytable, just to be able to say that I've done so. Of the
few casinos I've been to since getting into VP I've never seen one
with an optimal paytable. All I truly know is JoB, so I'm hoping to
see and play a 9/6 machine. However, by what I've been reading lately
it sounds like all the good machines are taken most all the time by
locals, pros, and teams. Is this true? Do I, as an outsider and not
knowing where all the good machines are, have any shot of actually
finding and sitting down at one of them???

Many Thanks,
Ian

#2

Check the database inventory. The strip has lots of 9/6 JOB. There is even
more in the off-strip properties.

No need to worry. Have fun!

bl

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Ian Waldecker" <ianwaldecker@y...>
wrote:

···

I'm a little worried about my upcoming trip
to Vegas in October.

All I truly know is JoB, so I'm hoping to
see and play a 9/6 machine.

Ian

#3

I'll keep it somewhat short:

-Check the database. Figure out where you're going to stay,
and based of that figure out where you expect to play. Don't
forget backup plans.

-I was surprised to learn that a good JoB player can play DB
with no strategy adjustment. This adds a lot of machines to
what you can play. And until october you have enough time to
learn a few strategy adjustments that will allow you get returns
in DB that you can only dream of in JoB.

-If I remember correctly, you can find some good JoB on
the strip at Ceasars Palace, within short distance of the
monorail at Westin and Hilton. Tuscany is 5 minutes
away from the monorail and has some good DB. Palms
also has both of those. I'm sure that you'll find something
to play within easy reach of where you stay (yes, even
if you stay at the stratosphere, where you'll find DB).

JBQ

···

On 8/23/05, Ian Waldecker <ianwaldecker@yahoo.com> wrote:

All I truly know is JoB, so I'm hoping to
see and play a 9/6 machine.

#4

I'll be staying at Mandalay Bay, and it looks like they have to DB
and DDB. Haven't played either one and am thinking about purchasing
either Winpoker or Frugal VP. Any suggestions on which one you like
better? Winpoker, from what I hear, is cheaper and I like the
interface (I have the demo), but I hear that Frugal is more up to
date.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!

I thank everyone who mentioned the database, I did know about it but
never truly checked it out.
Thanks again for the help.
~Ian
P.S. I know Queen Jean is part of this group, so I'm sure many people
will lean toward her software program, which is absolutely fine. I
just want the best, most comprehensive program out there.

···

--- Jean-Baptiste Queru <jbqueru@gmail.com> wrote:

I'll keep it somewhat short:

-Check the database. Figure out where you're going to stay,
and based of that figure out where you expect to play. Don't
forget backup plans.

-I was surprised to learn that a good JoB player can play DB
with no strategy adjustment. This adds a lot of machines to
what you can play. And until october you have enough time to
learn a few strategy adjustments that will allow you get returns
in DB that you can only dream of in JoB.

-If I remember correctly, you can find some good JoB on
the strip at Ceasars Palace, within short distance of the
monorail at Westin and Hilton. Tuscany is 5 minutes
away from the monorail and has some good DB. Palms
also has both of those. I'm sure that you'll find something
to play within easy reach of where you stay (yes, even
if you stay at the stratosphere, where you'll find DB).

JBQ

On 8/23/05, Ian Waldecker <ianwaldecker@yahoo.com> wrote:
> All I truly know is JoB, so I'm hoping to
> see and play a 9/6 machine.

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#5

Ian Waldecker wrote:

However after the latest posts regarding the FPDW at Wynn I'm a
little worried about my upcoming trip to Vegas in October ... All I
truly know is JoB, so I'm hoping to see and play a 9/6 machine.
However, by what I've been reading lately it sounds like all the
good machines are taken most all the time by locals, pros, and
teams.

Don't sweat it. The issue in the Wynn play is that a $1 game was
installed with a "perfect play" ER that is near 1% positive when
cashback is added in (not to mention comps). For a fast, excellent
player, that represents a theoretical advantage of around $40/hr. or
better.

Your typical play on the Strip isn't going to attract the many people
who play fast and furious for hours on end (with the exception of the
seldom seen promotion that adds substantial value to play). Off
strip, the problem is more often seen with games having an ER over
100%, sometimes even at quarter denominations, when combined with a
good promo. But again, this is the exception, not the rule.

If you have any concerns at all, just post where you intend to play to
get some guidance. You sound like a pretty occasional player and
likely can benefit from others' input in any case.

- Harry

#6

Ian Waldecker wrote:

I'll be staying at Mandalay Bay, and it looks like they have to DB
and DDB. Haven't played either one and am thinking about purchasing
either Winpoker or Frugal VP. Any suggestions on which one you like
better? Winpoker, from what I hear, is cheaper and I like the
interface (I have the demo), but I hear that Frugal is more up to
date. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Ultimately, Frugal is actually the cheaper one. In any case, you want
a program that will generate printed strategies for reference in
practice and casino play rather than winging best play through trial
and error. Frugal includes this ability; Winpoker doesn't and you
need to shell out more money for a program like VP Strategy Master
(another $30).

Both programs have their strengths and weaknesses. I love aspects of
each. My wife and I still use Winpoker as practice tutor because we
find the screen formatting much more similar to real machine screens
(plus things like card placement on the screen are a little more
comfortable to interact with).

However, as a relatively experienced player, I adore Frugal's advanced
analysis tools. Also, for certain difficult games, my wife is much
more comfortable with Frugal practice because of the ability to select
a mode where errors aren't flagged so long as they are consistent with
basic strategy (whereas Winpoker potentially alerts you to any error
that deviates from the "perfect play" for a given hand).

My recommendation to you if you're going to go with just one program
is Frugal. However, Winpoker's an inexpensive supplement. Download
the evaluation version from the Zamzow website (developer):
http://zamzone.com/
and check it out for comparison.

- Harry

#7

You mentioned theoretical advantage of $40/hr.
Elliot says it's $30/hr. I've also read the $30 figure in the past from Dancer and other mathematicians.
Which is actually right?

Seussman

···

----- Original Message -----
  From: Harry Porter
  To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 8:55 AM
  Subject: [vpFREE] Re: reason to worry??

  Don't sweat it. The issue in the Wynn play is that a $1 game was
  installed with a "perfect play" ER that is near 1% positive when
  cashback is added in (not to mention comps). For a fast, excellent
  player, that represents a theoretical advantage of around $40/hr. or
  better.

  Your typical play on the Strip isn't going to attract the many people
  who play fast and furious for hours on end (with the exception of the
  seldom seen promotion that adds substantial value to play). Off
  strip, the problem is more often seen with games having an ER over
  100%, sometimes even at quarter denominations, when combined with a
  good promo. But again, this is the exception, not the rule.

  If you have any concerns at all, just post where you intend to play to
  get some guidance. You sound like a pretty occasional player and
  likely can benefit from others' input in any case.

  - Harry

  vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

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#8

Dennis Soucy wrote:

You mentioned theoretical advantage of $40/hr.
Elliot says it's $30/hr. I've also read the $30 figure in the past
from Dancer and other mathematicians.
Which is actually right?

It's a matter of assumed play speed.

A more recent post discusses the machines and it sounds like a
seasoned player should likely manage 800-900 hph (vs. the 1000-1200+
that many machines can potentially be maxed out at).

Rounding the edge on this play to .9% (w/ Free Play credit), the
hourly advantage is conservatively: (800 hph) * $5/play * .9% = $36.
Substitute alternate values as you prefer.

- H.

#9

The calculation is simple. At 1000 hands / hr you get $5000 * (.0076
native return + .0022 cash back or .0098)
5000 * .0098 = $49 / hour. At 800 hands / hr you get 4000 * .0098 =
$39.20 / hour. Many people play 1100 - 1200 hph if the machine lets them.

···

At 01:00 PM 8/23/2005, you wrote:

You mentioned theoretical advantage of $40/hr.
Elliot says it's $30/hr. I've also read the $30 figure in the past
from Dancer and other mathematicians.
Which is actually right?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#10

Wow! At $40/hour, an $80,000 per year job starts to sound great. Going at it
40 hours/week, 50 weeks/year. Is my math correct?

But, i find, with my playing at a rate of 500-600 hands per hour, for 5-6 hours/
day, I am ready for something else after a 5-day stay in LV. Therefore, I don't
think i have the stamina to be a VP-PRO. I'll keep my day job and leave that
to others. LOL.

bl

#11

bornloser1537 wrote:

Wow! At $40/hour, an $80,000 per year job starts to sound great.
Going at it 40 hours/week, 50 weeks/year. Is my math correct?

Oh, yeah ... that's the life! <snicker>

And when the strong $ plays can't be found you get to squeeze out a
"wage" on slimmer pickin's in the "locals".

Ever check out the teeth of a player banging away next to you?
Apparently casinos don't comp health insurance benefits.

- H.

#12

Yeah! No 401-k matching either, I bet! But, on the positive side,
you don't get stuck in the social security system. LOL

bl

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter" <harry.porter@v...>
wrote:

···

bornloser1537 wrote:
> Wow! At $40/hour, an $80,000 per year job starts to sound great.
> Going at it 40 hours/week, 50 weeks/year. Is my math correct?

Oh, yeah ... that's the life! <snicker>

And when the strong $ plays can't be found you get to squeeze out a
"wage" on slimmer pickin's in the "locals".

Ever check out the teeth of a player banging away next to you?
Apparently casinos don't comp health insurance benefits.

- H.

#13

I was NOT adding in the cash back, comps or bingo game.
Also, neither considers the bathroom break, and other reasons to slow
down.
Perhaps $35 may be more accurate.

I can play at 800 hands per hour but not at 1200.. Frankly I would
doubt that many can, but if they can, then the hourly rate would go
way up.

···

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 13:00:18 -0700, you wrote:

You mentioned theoretical advantage of $40/hr.
Elliot says it's $30/hr. I've also read the $30 figure in the past from Dancer and other mathematicians.
Which is actually right?

Seussman
----- Original Message -----
From: Harry Porter
To: vpFREE@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 8:55 AM
Subject: [vpFREE] Re: reason to worry??

Don't sweat it. The issue in the Wynn play is that a $1 game was
installed with a "perfect play" ER that is near 1% positive when
cashback is added in (not to mention comps). For a fast, excellent
player, that represents a theoretical advantage of around $40/hr. or
better.

Your typical play on the Strip isn't going to attract the many people
who play fast and furious for hours on end (with the exception of the
seldom seen promotion that adds substantial value to play). Off
strip, the problem is more often seen with games having an ER over
100%, sometimes even at quarter denominations, when combined with a
good promo. But again, this is the exception, not the rule.

If you have any concerns at all, just post where you intend to play to
get some guidance. You sound like a pretty occasional player and
likely can benefit from others' input in any case.

- Harry

vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

   a.. Visit your group "vpFREE" on the web.
     
   b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    vpFREE-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
     
   c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm

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