vpFREE2 Forums

Reading The Fine Print

#1

I recently received an offer from the Venetian. It contained the
usual disclaimers we all see in small print.

Except this offer stated something I've never seen before.

It ended like this:

"Sincerely,

Anthony Tricase
Executive Director of Casino Marketing
      
Offer is expressly conditioned upon recipient maintaining his or her
historical level of play as of the mailing date of this offer."

So what exactly does THAT mean? Does historical mean my last three
trips, five trips, an average of all trips, or what? If I lose my
bankroll quickly in a bad streak and my "level" cannot be sustained,
is the offer revoked? Can I be charged?

I am extremely uncomfortable with vague language like this.

Mind you, I have no intention of booking this or any offer at
Venetian/Palazzo with their substantially downgraded VP. But I
caution vpFREE members to now read the fine print even more carefully
on offers when making decisions.

#2

Maybe it just means that when they mailed you the offer you had a certain
level of play that qualified you...but if by the time you try to sign up for
the offer and they recheck you, they see that you have lowered your play,
they can tell you "no, sorry, offer no longer valid for you."

They put some language like that on those pre-approved credit card offers
too...when they mail it out you qualified for their card. But if, in the
interim (before you respond), you file bankruptcy or something they can say
"no, you are not pre-approved anymore."

I think it is just an "out" for them if they all of a sudden decide you are
not someone worthy of the offer. On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 9:37 AM, mikeymic <
mikeymic@yahoo.com> wrote:

  I recently received an offer from the Venetian. It contained the
usual disclaimers we all see in small print.

Except this offer stated something I've never seen before.

Offer is expressly conditioned upon recipient maintaining his or her
historical level of play as of the mailing date of this offer."

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#3

mikeymicwrote:

I recently received an offer from the Venetian. It contained the
usual disclaimers we all see in small print.

Except this offer stated something I've never seen before.

It ended like this:

"Sincerely,

Anthony Tricase
Executive Director of Casino Marketing
      
Offer is expressly conditioned upon recipient maintaining his or
her historical level of play as of the mailing date of this offer."

So what exactly does THAT mean? Does historical mean my last three
trips, five trips, an average of all trips, or what? If I lose my
bankroll quickly in a bad streak and my "level" cannot be
sustained, is the offer revoked? Can I be charged?

I am extremely uncomfortable with vague language like this.

Mind you, I have no intention of booking this or any offer at
Venetian/Palazzo with their substantially downgraded VP. But I
caution vpFREE members to now read the fine print even more
carefully on offers when making decisions.

I offer a dated anecdote:

In late 2001 I stopped in at Venetian and gave them a little under 2
hr of moderately paced $1 JB play (a little over $6K coin-in, est.)
just to see what offers might surface.

The next spring I received an offer with similar terms as noted above.
In calling to tentatively book the offer, I asked what "historical"
specifically entailed. To my surprise, with exact precision the CSR
offered up my historical play as "x minutes" with "$y average bet".
So long as play met that threshold, there would be no charge.

I don't think I entirely managed to mask my *choke* at the thought of
2 night's comp on play that otherwise might marginally suffice at
Barbary Coast. (I did say "dated")

One of the sweetest comps ever. (We extended actual play only an hour
beyond that.)

#4

Maybe it just means that when they mailed you the offer you had a

certain

level of play that qualified you...but if by the time you try to

sign up for

the offer and they recheck you, they see that you have lowered your

play,

they can tell you "no, sorry, offer no longer valid for you."

I think it is just an "out" for them if they all of a sudden decide

you are

not someone worthy of the offer.

In actuality I have given the Venetian and Palazzo no play at all for
at least the past 7 or 8 months. Will not play there since they
started all their foolishness with slashing all the VP paytables
(especially in high limit) and then opening a few 9/6 Jacks machines
once in a blue moon as if I would spend my whole trip waiting for
that moment.

It is only the wording in that fine print that caught my eye. Whether
or not they feel they need an "out" from me due to their poor
financial condition is actually irrelevant since I will neither stay
nor play there. Just wanted to warn others to read offers from
Venetian carefully now, as you obviously do.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Jayne <jaynedoe13@...> wrote:

#5

It seems like there's a lot more strange fine print showing up on
offers lately.

I haven't seen anything exactly like you just wrote regarding
Venetian/Palazzo, but I have seen ones from them that say you must
maintain your level of play to receive this offer. Those offers have
been their level specific offers of free suites/free play that can be
used as many times as you want during a 3 or 4 month period. I haven't
seen anything like that on regular offers from them.

My latest offer from Red Rock/Green Valley Ranch for 2 free nights
with $250 free play and $100 restaurant credit actually states "all
offers are subject to rated casino play during your stay." I've never
seen that on any of their offers before.

Planet Hollywood seems to be putting 4 hour play requirements on just
about all of their offers these days.

Golden Nugget offers now state, "The Golden Nugget reserves all rights
to modify or revoke your offer based on your most recent casino play."
I also received an email this month from my host there stating that
they've noticed I've been there for just one night a lot lately on
their free play/gift card offers and that from now on I will have to
play 12 hours before I can get the free play or gift card. (I told
them to cancel my future reservations.)

Times are tight and the casinos are really tightening up big time! :frowning:

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mikeymic" <mikeymic@...> wrote:

I recently received an offer from the Venetian. It contained the
usual disclaimers we all see in small print.

Except this offer stated something I've never seen before.

It ended like this:

"Sincerely,

Anthony Tricase
Executive Director of Casino Marketing
      
Offer is expressly conditioned upon recipient maintaining his or her
historical level of play as of the mailing date of this offer."

So what exactly does THAT mean? Does historical mean my last three
trips, five trips, an average of all trips, or what? If I lose my
bankroll quickly in a bad streak and my "level" cannot be sustained,
is the offer revoked? Can I be charged?

I am extremely uncomfortable with vague language like this.

Mind you, I have no intention of booking this or any offer at
Venetian/Palazzo with their substantially downgraded VP. But I
caution vpFREE members to now read the fine print even more carefully
on offers when making decisions.

#6

Thanks for a excellent post!

My latest offers from River Palms in Laughlin just started to include in
the fine print:

"Complimentary room, show and event offers are a courtesy and based on
your expected level of play."

I have always assumed that the offers were based on past play and not
future play. Nowhere do they specify what "expected level of play" is!
Since they take your credit card number for reservations, I would worry
about surprise charges.

Let the player beware!

Dennis
vp-connoisseur

mikeymic reported:

I recently received an offer from the Venetian. It contained the
usual disclaimers we all see in small print.

Except this offer stated something I've never seen before.

It ended like this:

"Sincerely,

Anthony Tricase
Executive Director of Casino Marketing
     
Offer is expressly conditioned upon recipient maintaining his or her
historical level of play as of the mailing date of this offer."

So what exactly does THAT mean? Does historical mean my last three
trips, five trips, an average of all trips, or what? If I lose my
bankroll quickly in a bad streak and my "level" cannot be sustained,
is the offer revoked? Can I be charged?

I am extremely uncomfortable with vague language like this.

Mind you, I have no intention of booking this or any offer at
Venetian/Palazzo with their substantially downgraded VP. But I
caution vpFREE members to now read the fine print even more carefully
on offers when making decisions.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

#7

My most recent offers to Harrahs Atlantic City (and by that I mean,
the last month or two) have stated that if there is no play recorded,
that I may be charged for the free room. My dad's offers say the same
thing. We're both Platinum, with him being a tier around 5,000 and me
being around 8,000. Anyway, last time he went, he was there for three
days. He usually hops between Harrahs one day and then Resorts the
second day, but was afraid to play at Resorts because he didn't want
to have zero play at Harrahs and get charged for the room, and didn't
want to short-play which would affect his ADT.

If they're trying to scare people into playing, I guess it's working -
- I simply won't book rooms there if I'm unsure of whether I'll be
charged when I leave. We used to go there every 2-3 weeks and I
haven't been in almost two months now.

#8

I have always assumed that the offers were based on past play and not
future play. Nowhere do they specify what "expected level of play"

is! Since they take your credit card number for reservations, I would
worry about surprise charges.

Let the player beware!

Offers traditionally are supposed to be based on past play. Of
course, any casino *expects* people to give them play when they are
staying in the hotel for free, but in the past that has always been a
risk that the casino had to take. You as a player should have a right
to stiff the casino on a free stay, and correspondingly the casino has
the right to not invite you back anymore if you do so. Even if you
*do* give the casino lots and lots of play during your stay, the
casino still has the right to not invite you back anymore. That's the
risk the player has to take every visit. So there is some risk on
both sides, which is as it should be.

Casinos seem to have forgotten how things are supposed to work. Next
thing you know, they'll be trying to charge you for a free room if you
happen to win during your visit.

Here is some free advice for casino owners: It is generally not good
business practice to scare off your best customers with ominous
sounding, vaguely worded threats.

EE

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, Cielaszyk <cacti-az@...> wrote:

#9

If they're trying to scare people into playing, I guess it's

working -

- I simply won't book rooms there if I'm unsure of whether I'll be
charged when I leave. We used to go there every 2-3 weeks and I
haven't been in almost two months now.

I can't think of many things worse than being billed "surprise"
credit card charges by a casino, especially after a losing trip. So,
I wanted to warn players what they are up against.

The new wording I noticed in the fine print is an adjustment to
economic times. Casinos can only slash paytables so far. So, another
way to increase profits (or minimize their losses) is to make sure
players do not stay without playing. And the amount of play is
clearly ambiguous.

Many vpFREE players want to use offers at one casino but try their
luck elsewhere. I completely understand that, because you may have
played extensively at a property, lost a lot of money there and feel
you deserve a return visit.

But that strategy will not work if casinos advise you in the "fine
print" that the offer is based on maintaining historical play
(whatever that means). It implies they may charge you accordingly at
checkout according to whatever vague standards of lack of play may
apply.

Since I wouldn't have any recourse if advised of that policy "up
front", I take language like that very seriously.

And so should you.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Will" <will@...> wrote:

#10

I took Red Rock up on this offer of $250 free play and $100 food
credit. I will be there in early January. Will be interesting to see
what happens based on my play. I will be doing this trip solo, without
my wife (who plays on my card), so my level of play will be much lower
than previous trips.

If I return home and discover a room charge on my credit card, I'll be
furious! Not worried, though. I'll simply call my credit card company
and have the charge removed due to false/unclear advertising.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "justmarelv" <justmare111@...> wrote:

My latest offer from Red Rock/Green Valley Ranch for 2 free nights
with $250 free play and $100 restaurant credit actually states "all
offers are subject to rated casino play during your stay." I've
never seen that on any of their offers before.