vpFREE2 Forums

Reading and Writing About VP

It's 3 a.m. and I can't sleep - partly, I guess, because of some recent threads on this forum that I'm having a hard time getting out of my head.
So I decided to get out of bed and write about some things that I have been thinking about - and then maybe I can get to sleep.

Ever since I slowly switched from BJ to VP in 1990-91, I have read everything I could get my hands on about VP. If I'm not an "expert" in anything else, I can certainly talk with a vast store of knowledge about VP information.

Yes, VP is a math subject - and one may say that the math never changes. True! But the way the math is presented very much mirrors the personality, the experience, and the goals of the author. Sometimes it is not a matter of "right" or "wrong" numbers. VP strategy charts illustrate this very nicely. Compare a simplified chart that has no penalty-card situations to the most complex chart. Is the simplified one "wrong" and the complex one "right." Of course not. The complex chart might be completely "wrong" for a casual gambler who wants to play VP when he comes to Vegas for a few days a couple of times a year.

There is another factor here we must consider. The study of VP has evolved over the years. I am reminded of Lenny Frome, my first VP teacher, who did such ground-breaking research about the game. When he first analyzed full-pay Deuces Wild, he concluded it was a negative game. Only sometime later did he go back to look at it again, found he had made a math mistake, and then published the new and corrected EV. I'm sure there isn't a VP writer who has never made an error and had to correct it later. (That's one reason why I like writing Frugal Fridays - when you write online, you can always go back and change things - once something appears in a hard copy source, it is there for good!)

I have learned that each writer bring a unique perspective to the subject of VP. And this is a good thing! Maybe something we don't understand from one article will become quite clear in another one. This does not apply just to the writings of the "professional" writers. How many times on this forum has it taken input from many members to make a concept clear to all!

In my writings about VP, I lean to the more chatty "practical" side. I am very happy that there are others who are good at explaining the math. This is one of Dan Paymar's strengths. After Frome's early tutoring in the basics, I felt I was ready for more advanced concepts and Dan was the only one at the time that was providing good mathematical guidance. Much of what I learned about the math basics of VP, including bankroll requirements, etc., I learned from Dan's writings. I owe him a great deal, as I know many of you on this forum do. And I appreciate that he has conducted himself like a gentleman. I count him as a good friend.

As other math experts came on the scene, I devoured their writings and practiced on their software. VP has always been a continuous learning process for me and I am as successful as I am today only because I have had a lot of good teachers and models down through the years. (And I emphasize that fact in a new book that will be coming out within a few months - my first one strictly about VP!)

I think I speak for many on this forum. We appreciate all the information, from all sources, that makes VP more profitable and enjoyable!!!!

···

________________________________________
Jean $�ott - http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
  Tax time is coming up - groan! "Tax Help
   for the Frugal Gambler" can answer many
   of your questions!

Well said Jean!

Hopefully, you can get some sleep now.

It's 3 a.m. and I can't sleep - partly, I guess, because of some

recent

threads on this forum that I'm having a hard time getting out of my

head.

So I decided to get out of bed and write about some things that I

have been

thinking about - and then maybe I can get to sleep.

Ever since I slowly switched from BJ to VP in 1990-91, I have read
everything I could get my hands on about VP. If I'm not

an "expert" in

anything else, I can certainly talk with a vast store of knowledge

about VP

information.

Yes, VP is a math subject - and one may say that the math never

changes.

True! But the way the math is presented very much mirrors the

personality,

the experience, and the goals of the author. Sometimes it is not a

matter

of "right" or "wrong" numbers. VP strategy charts illustrate this

very

nicely. Compare a simplified chart that has no penalty-card

situations to

the most complex chart. Is the simplified one "wrong" and the

complex one

"right." Of course not. The complex chart might be

completely "wrong" for a

casual gambler who wants to play VP when he comes to Vegas for a

few days a

couple of times a year.

There is another factor here we must consider. The study of VP has

evolved

over the years. I am reminded of Lenny Frome, my first VP teacher,

who did

such ground-breaking research about the game. When he first

analyzed

full-pay Deuces Wild, he concluded it was a negative game. Only

sometime

later did he go back to look at it again, found he had made a math

mistake,

and then published the new and corrected EV. I'm sure there isn't

a VP

writer who has never made an error and had to correct it later.

(That's one

reason why I like writing Frugal Fridays - when you write online,

you can

always go back and change things - once something appears in a hard

copy

source, it is there for good!)

I have learned that each writer bring a unique perspective to the

subject of

VP. And this is a good thing! Maybe something we don't understand

from one

article will become quite clear in another one. This does not

apply just to

the writings of the "professional" writers. How many times on this

forum

has it taken input from many members to make a concept clear to all!

In my writings about VP, I lean to the more chatty "practical"

side. I am

very happy that there are others who are good at explaining the

math. This

is one of Dan Paymar's strengths. After Frome's early tutoring in

the

basics, I felt I was ready for more advanced concepts and Dan was

the only

one at the time that was providing good mathematical guidance.

Much of what

I learned about the math basics of VP, including bankroll

requirements,

etc., I learned from Dan's writings. I owe him a great deal, as I

know many

of you on this forum do. And I appreciate that he has conducted

himself

like a gentleman. I count him as a good friend.

As other math experts came on the scene, I devoured their writings

and

practiced on their software. VP has always been a continuous

learning

process for me and I am as successful as I am today only because I

have had

a lot of good teachers and models down through the years. (And I

emphasize

that fact in a new book that will be coming out within a few

months - my

first one strictly about VP!)

I think I speak for many on this forum. We appreciate all the

information,

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Jean Scott" <QueenofComps@...> wrote:

from all sources, that makes VP more profitable and enjoyable!!!!

________________________________________
Jean $¢ott - http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
  Tax time is coming up - groan! "Tax Help
   for the Frugal Gambler" can answer many
   of your questions!

Jean wrote:

Yes, VP is a math subject - and one may say that the math never changes.
True! But the way the math is presented very much mirrors the personality,
the experience, and the goals of the author. Sometimes it is not a matter
of "right" or "wrong" numbers.

"Sometimes" is a key word here. There's a big difference between the
extent of detail of one's strategy and a blatant mistake.

VP strategy charts illustrate this very
nicely. Compare a simplified chart that has no penalty-card situations to
the most complex chart. Is the simplified one "wrong" and the complex one
"right." Of course not. The complex chart might be completely "wrong" for a
casual gambler who wants to play VP when he comes to Vegas for a few days a
couple of times a year.

There are many skills that it takes to succeed at any field. One of
the most important in video poker is care to get things "right."
Perfectionism can be taken too far, but it's at least "safer," in
terms of one's chance of playing at a significant advantage, than
carelessly accepting too many mistakes is.

There is another factor here we must consider. The study of VP has evolved
over the years. I am reminded of Lenny Frome, my first VP teacher, who did
such ground-breaking research about the game. When he first analyzed
full-pay Deuces Wild, he concluded it was a negative game. Only sometime
later did he go back to look at it again, found he had made a math mistake,
and then published the new and corrected EV. I'm sure there isn't a VP
writer who has never made an error and had to correct it later.

I assume this is true, but I'm also convinced that, between the
writers that we know, there is a significant difference in the rate of
their mistakes. Who "wins" a personal squabble may not be relevant to
people who are learning video poker, but the extent to which each
author can be counted on to get things right is.

I reminded of the old saw; "academic politics are
so vicious because the stakes are so small." Aside
from showcasing some booring behaviour by one writer
why does any of this matter?

Tom Robertson <thomasrrobertson@...> wrote:

There are many skills that it takes to succeed at any field. One of
the most important in video poker is care to get things "right."
Perfectionism can be taken too far, but it's at least "safer," in
terms of one's chance of playing at a significant advantage, than
carelessly accepting too many mistakes is.

Because the money in your bank account is so easy to measure to the
exact penny, there's often a tendency of people to value money over
the things that can't be measured (e.g., happiness or whatever). It's
worth watching out for tendencies like this.

Likewise: since the "Expected Value" of a VP strategy can be
calculated to 4 decimal places, we can sometimes get hypnotized as to
its relative importance. There are definitely cases where I have to
go the extra step. That is, if I'm thinking about using a more
complex strategy, it's not enough for me to know that doing this as
opposed to that will give me higher EV. Ultimately, I have to check
how much difference that makes in expected cash, consider how much
that'll actually add up to over a year (or lifetime or whatever), and
even consider how important that is relative to my overall bankroll.

I'm sure there are cases when people have dedicated much time &
effort to deciding between particular strategies, without realizing
that the difference amounted to $4.12 per year.

Stuart

Well said Ms. Jean ! I am a fairly new member to this group and VP so I sure don't know what is REALLY going on between these two gentlemen...... other than what I read between the fine lines. Likewise, it is not any of my business. However, sometimes, with religion, politics, and VIDEO POKER .......we must just AGREE TO DISAGREE and just move on !
  
    Like you, in the beginning, I am trying to read and study everything! And I appreciate ALL the information that all the writers and people in this forum bring to the table !! I do think that Mr. Paymar should certainly be given the credit and RESPECT that he deserves for all he has brought to the VP arena.
  
  I really look forward to the new book on VP !!!
  
  Take care,
  
  Nita

Jean Scott <QueenofComps@frugalgambler.biz> wrote: It's 3 a.m. and I can't sleep - partly, I guess, because of some recent
  threads on this forum that I'm having a hard time getting out of my head.
  So I decided to get out of bed and write about some things that I have been
  thinking about - and then maybe I can get to sleep.
  
  Ever since I slowly switched from BJ to VP in 1990-91, I have read
  everything I could get my hands on about VP. If I'm not an "expert" in
  anything else, I can certainly talk with a vast store of knowledge about VP
  information.
  
  Yes, VP is a math subject - and one may say that the math never changes.
  True! But the way the math is presented very much mirrors the personality,
  the experience, and the goals of the author. Sometimes it is not a matter
  of "right" or "wrong" numbers. VP strategy charts illustrate this very
  nicely. Compare a simplified chart that has no penalty-card situations to
  the most complex chart. Is the simplified one "wrong" and the complex one
  "right." Of course not. The complex chart might be completely "wrong" for a
  casual gambler who wants to play VP when he comes to Vegas for a few days a
  couple of times a year.
  
  There is another factor here we must consider. The study of VP has evolved
  over the years. I am reminded of Lenny Frome, my first VP teacher, who did
  such ground-breaking research about the game. When he first analyzed
  full-pay Deuces Wild, he concluded it was a negative game. Only sometime
  later did he go back to look at it again, found he had made a math mistake,
  and then published the new and corrected EV. I'm sure there isn't a VP
  writer who has never made an error and had to correct it later. (That's one
  reason why I like writing Frugal Fridays - when you write online, you can
  always go back and change things - once something appears in a hard copy
  source, it is there for good!)
  
  I have learned that each writer bring a unique perspective to the subject of
  VP. And this is a good thing! Maybe something we don't understand from one
  article will become quite clear in another one. This does not apply just to
  the writings of the "professional" writers. How many times on this forum
  has it taken input from many members to make a concept clear to all!
  
  In my writings about VP, I lean to the more chatty "practical" side. I am
  very happy that there are others who are good at explaining the math. This
  is one of Dan Paymar's strengths. After Frome's early tutoring in the
  basics, I felt I was ready for more advanced concepts and Dan was the only
  one at the time that was providing good mathematical guidance. Much of what
  I learned about the math basics of VP, including bankroll requirements,
  etc., I learned from Dan's writings. I owe him a great deal, as I know many
  of you on this forum do. And I appreciate that he has conducted himself
  like a gentleman. I count him as a good friend.
  
  As other math experts came on the scene, I devoured their writings and
  practiced on their software. VP has always been a continuous learning
  process for me and I am as successful as I am today only because I have had
  a lot of good teachers and models down through the years. (And I emphasize
  that fact in a new book that will be coming out within a few months - my
  first one strictly about VP!)
  
  I think I speak for many on this forum. We appreciate all the information,
  from all sources, that makes VP more profitable and enjoyable!!!!

···

________________________________________
  Jean $�ott - http://www.FrugalGambler.biz
    Tax time is coming up - groan! "Tax Help
     for the Frugal Gambler" can answer many
     of your questions!
  
    vpFREE Links: http://members.cox.net/vpfree/Links.htm
  
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I noticed that 3 Crystal Cruise ships are part of
Caesars Entertainment/Harrahs. Does anyone know what
benefits Diamond players would be offered when booking
a cruise?

Les

···

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