vpFREE2 Forums

re 9/6 jacks -- the case why casinos should have them! --C...

The 1.41% vig.of the pass line bet is decreased when you add the odds
bet.If you made a $60 pass bet,your total vig.is 1.41%.If you make a $10 plus
$50 odds,the vig. of the total bet is lowered.

pass bet with no odds =1.41% or 98.59% payback

pass bet with single odds = .8% or 99.2% payback

pass bet with double odds = .6% or 99.4% payback

If you take or lay Triple odds or more the vig. will be less than .5% thus
my (rounded & conservative figure of 99.5%.

Marc

In a message dated 6/12/2009 2:41:58 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
tbf1020@yahoo.com writes:

Whats the 99.5% bet on the dice table? you taking other peoples odds or
something?

— In _vpFREE@yahoogroups.vpF_ (mailto:vpF…@…com) ,
marccarfi@…, ma

It's called PANIC and GREED!...PANIC because of lost business in a bad
economy and GREED...to separate you from as much of your money as
possible.When you have games that payout 99%+ and then add comps and

cashback to

that,you can come out ahead.Nowadays casinos don't want anybody walking

away with

their money.That's why every single positive machine that's put in A.C.

is

burned down and taken out.All the Pro's jump on it.So when they're gone
the pro's move to the near positive machines.Now if there are'nt any of

those

either, there's no place for the pro's to play...and lets face it the
casinos don't really want a pro's business...it' casinos don't really

want a pro'

and a waste of space.I'ts all about the bottom line.

I've become extremely discouraged by the VP scene in A.C...."Oh Boy,The
casinos will let me play as much 8/5 Jacks or Better that I want!...Isn,

casino

nice of them"....I've gotten rid of my VPW software and all of it's
useless positive EV game stratagies and statistics.. useless positive EV

gam usele

all a waste of time... in A.C. anyway.I have since switched over to

Craps

exclusively. exclusively.<WBR>I'm acually pretty far ahead in my play and

too.I get free room offers and free food at Buffets and coffee shops all

the

time and I only make the best bets...99.5% or better.I put the time in

and

give them action. In craps,you have so much more control as far as what
bets you make,how much and an endless array of strategies that you can
employ... and there's nothing more exciting than a HOT table.A COLD

table can be

exciting too,if you know how to work it.Why wait for that elusive Royal.

Marc

In a message dated 6/8/2009 6:28:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
misscraps@.. misscrap

I just don't understand why so many casinos are taking out 9/6 jacks -

as

though this were a positive game for players - it just isn't. With

player

errors and bankroll considerations, even the best players are going to
lose
probably lose around 1% with this game, and most players are not 100%
accurate at all -- I see many Video Poker players playing who have no

idea

what
to hold, even on the simplest jacks or better games. I also see lots of
people playing less than 5 coins, even on progressive machines, so those
people are also going to lose more than the theoretical amounts.

Admittedly, where there is good cashback, and games where excellent
players
can put through a lot of money, such as $5 and up machines, or $1
multi-lines, a few excellent skilled players can make a profit. But

there

just
aren't that many excellent players. And those people are looking for

those

high money making opportunities. They just aren't looking for quarter
games
or nickel 50 plays or whatever.

So I just don't believe casinos such as Harrahs, which doesn't offer

much

in the way of comps or cashback, was losing money with the nickel 50

play

9/6 in Laughlin that were recently taken out.

But by having them, they were drawing in players who thought they WOULD
LOSE LESS - this is different from professional video poker players.

These

people brought with them wives and husbands who play REELs, friends,
relatives, and then they told people about Laughlin, which also brought

in

people.
In olden days casinos had low cost buffets (and they still do so today)

as

"loss leaders" - to bring people in. The buffet may have lost money, but
the people stayed and played. Similarly, having some quarter or nickel

9/6

JB or NSU machines are going to BRING people in. The casinos just aren't
going to lose money at these machines, in my opinion. Maybe they don't
make money, but they really shouldn't be losers. So they take up 1 or 2

or

5
machines with these "loss leaders" - so what if they bring in people who
play other games as well.

And I know for certain that many people who play 9/6 JB, also

occasionally

play the much worse Double Double Bonus machines or plunk some money
through Megabucks, or play table games, or occasionally play reels. I

know

this
because I do it and I have friends who I have seen do it. My friends and

I

are knowledgable players, we know something about correct strategy, but

we

are not professionals, and we play 9/6 JB or NSU to lose less, but we
sometimes play other things too. And we tell our friends and relatives
about
the casinos we enjoy, and encourage them to visit those casinos, or
sometimes have them come with us, even though they are not Video Poker
players at
all, and are "regular" casual gamblers.

When casinos take away all the decent games, even the lowly quarter 9/6
and
NSUs, then people like us stop going to those casinos. We don't
exclusively play those machines when we visit, but we enjoy playing them
sometimes,
so when they are gone, we are gone too, from the casino. Now our
significant other who doesn't even play VP, stops going to your casino
too. We
stop bringing friends with us to your casino. We stop telling friends

(and

even strangers) about how much we liked the casino, and in fact, we

might

tell people not to go to that casino anymore. Instead we go to other
casinos
which do have those 9/6 and NSU machines, and we play there and bring

the

business of our friends and relatives with us. And by the way, without

our

business, the casino no longer has us (and our non-9/6 playing friends
mind
you) paying for food, rooms, shows, gifts, etc too -- the whole casino
suffers.

So this is why it makes economic sense for casinos to put in a few

decent

(not 100% machines, but 99% machines like 9/6 JB and NSU deuces). If

they

are smart, they will post signs around, like the Gold Coast does, saying
we
have X amount of 99%+ VP. They can even post signs right on top of the
machines to let the average person know they are there. The result is
great
publicity. And a bunch of people who know absolutely nothing about

correct

strategy will sit at these machines along with the tiny minority of
players
who do know something about correct strategy. Maybe those machines do
earn nothing for the casino - they are "loss leaders" - but if they are
not
really losing anything or very much - the casino shouldn't really care,
because by bringing in customers and their friends and relatives, in the
long
run they are going to make money.

With the huge number of casinos out there causing increasing

competition,

and the bad economy, why alienate gamblers and lose gamblers because of
lowly 9/6 JB? It doesn't pay out 100%, casino people!! Maybe some of

them

have gotten a wrong idea about 9/6 because they hear it is a FP (Full

Pay)

machine. That just means it pays out the most for any of that type of
machine (in this case Jacks or Better). But FP does not mean it is a
positive
game for the players. It just isn't in the case of 9/6 or NSU.

I can see why a casino would want to remove $5 and up machines, but not
crummy nickel, dime, quarter 9/6 (and probably not $1 either). It just
doesn't make sense! Another suggestion to casinos who are "worried"

about

these
machines. Don't put a whole bunch together - instead alternate them, and
also make them multigame machines, and you will find people playing

Keno,

DDB, Triple Double Bonus, and other games too, and no one will be able

to

sit
and play 2 at one time either. The professionals will stay away from
these low denominations, but you will bring in customers who think that
the
casino is a nice one willing to give people a fair shake.

************ **** <WBR>**<WBR>*A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above
your
steps!

(__http://pr.atwola.http://pr.http://prhttp://pr.atwolhttp://pr.atwolahttp://_
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www.freecreditrepor www. www.free www.&<WBR>hmpg&<WBR>bcd=)
JunestepsfooterNO62

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

************ ************<WBR>**A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See

yours i

steps!

(_http://pr.atwola.http://pr.atwhttp://pr.atwolahttp://pr.atwolahttp://pr.http://pr.ahttp://pr.atwolahttp://pr.atwolahttp://pr.atwo&<WBR>hmpg&<WBR_
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585043x1201462775/aol?redir=http:
//www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=)

JunestepsfooterNO62

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

**************Shop Dell’s full line of Laptops now starting at $349!
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221881320x1201406166/aol?redir=http:%2F%2
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The don't pass bet with double odds is a 99.54% wager (just like JOB but no skill required --- all you need to know is where to put your chips). Triple odds returns 99.66%; 5X 99.77%; 10X 99.88% and 100X 99.99%.

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, marccarfi@... wrote:

The 1.41% vig.of the pass line bet is decreased when you add the odds
bet.If you made a $60 pass bet,your total vig.is 1.41%.If you make a $10 plus
$50 odds,the vig. of the total bet is lowered.

pass bet with no odds =1.41% or 98.59% payback

pass bet with single odds = .8% or 99.2% payback

pass bet with double odds = .6% or 99.4% payback

If you take or lay Triple odds or more the vig. will be less than .5% thus
my (rounded & conservative figure of 99.5%.

Marc

In a message dated 6/12/2009 2:41:58 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
tbf1020@... writes:

Whats the 99.5% bet on the dice table? you taking other peoples odds or
something?

— In _vpFREE@…_ (mailto:vpF…@…com) ,
marccarfi@, ma
>
> It's called PANIC and GREED!..PANIC because of lost business in a bad
> economy and GREED…to separate you from as much of your money as
> possible.When you have games that payout 99%+ and then add comps and
cashback to
> that,you can come out ahead.Nowadays casinos don't want anybody walking
away with
> their money.That's why every single positive machine that's put in A.C.
is
> burned down and taken out.All the Pro's jump on it.So when they're gone
> the pro's move to the near positive machines.Now if there are'nt any of
those
> either, there's no place for the pro's to play…and lets face it the
> casinos don't really want a pro's business…it' casinos don't really
want a pro'
> and a waste of space.I'ts all about the bottom line.
>
> I've become extremely discouraged by the VP scene in A.C…"Oh Boy,The
> casinos will let me play as much 8/5 Jacks or Better that I want!..Isn,
casino
> nice of them"…I've gotten rid of my VPW software and all of it's
> useless positive EV game stratagies and statistics… useless positive EV
gam usele
> all a waste of time… in A.C. anyway.I have since switched over to
Craps
> exclusively. exclusively.<WBR>I'm acually pretty far ahead in my play and

> too.I get free room offers and free food at Buffets and coffee shops all
the
> time and I only make the best bets...99.5% or better.I put the time in
and
> give them action. In craps,you have so much more control as far as what
> bets you make,how much and an endless array of strategies that you can
> employ... and there's nothing more exciting than a HOT table.A COLD
table can be
> exciting too,if you know how to work it.Why wait for that elusive Royal.
>
> Marc
>
>
> In a message dated 6/8/2009 6:28:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> misscraps@ misscrap
>
>
>
>
>
> I just don't understand why so many casinos are taking out 9/6 jacks -
as
> though this were a positive game for players - it just isn't. With
player
> errors and bankroll considerations, even the best players are going to
> lose
> probably lose around 1% with this game, and most players are not 100%
> accurate at all -- I see many Video Poker players playing who have no
idea
> what
> to hold, even on the simplest jacks or better games. I also see lots of
> people playing less than 5 coins, even on progressive machines, so those
> people are also going to lose more than the theoretical amounts.
>
> Admittedly, where there is good cashback, and games where excellent
> players
> can put through a lot of money, such as $5 and up machines, or $1
> multi-lines, a few excellent skilled players can make a profit. But
there
> just
> aren't that many excellent players. And those people are looking for
those
> high money making opportunities. They just aren't looking for quarter
> games
> or nickel 50 plays or whatever.
>
> So I just don't believe casinos such as Harrahs, which doesn't offer
much
> in the way of comps or cashback, was losing money with the nickel 50
play
> 9/6 in Laughlin that were recently taken out.
>
> But by having them, they were drawing in players who thought they WOULD
> LOSE LESS - this is different from professional video poker players.
These
> people brought with them wives and husbands who play REELs, friends,
> relatives, and then they told people about Laughlin, which also brought
in
> people.
> In olden days casinos had low cost buffets (and they still do so today)
as
> "loss leaders" - to bring people in. The buffet may have lost money, but
> the people stayed and played. Similarly, having some quarter or nickel
9/6
> JB or NSU machines are going to BRING people in. The casinos just aren't
> going to lose money at these machines, in my opinion. Maybe they don't
> make money, but they really shouldn't be losers. So they take up 1 or 2
or
> 5
> machines with these "loss leaders" - so what if they bring in people who
> play other games as well.
>
> And I know for certain that many people who play 9/6 JB, also
occasionally
> play the much worse Double Double Bonus machines or plunk some money
> through Megabucks, or play table games, or occasionally play reels. I
know
> this
> because I do it and I have friends who I have seen do it. My friends and
I
> are knowledgable players, we know something about correct strategy, but
we
> are not professionals, and we play 9/6 JB or NSU to lose less, but we
> sometimes play other things too. And we tell our friends and relatives
> about
> the casinos we enjoy, and encourage them to visit those casinos, or
> sometimes have them come with us, even though they are not Video Poker
> players at
> all, and are "regular" casual gamblers.
>
> When casinos take away all the decent games, even the lowly quarter 9/6
> and
> NSUs, then people like us stop going to those casinos. We don't
> exclusively play those machines when we visit, but we enjoy playing them
> sometimes,
> so when they are gone, we are gone too, from the casino. Now our
> significant other who doesn't even play VP, stops going to your casino
> too. We
> stop bringing friends with us to your casino. We stop telling friends
(and
> even strangers) about how much we liked the casino, and in fact, we
might
> tell people not to go to that casino anymore. Instead we go to other
> casinos
> which do have those 9/6 and NSU machines, and we play there and bring
the
> business of our friends and relatives with us. And by the way, without
our
> business, the casino no longer has us (and our non-9/6 playing friends
> mind
> you) paying for food, rooms, shows, gifts, etc too -- the whole casino
> suffers.
>
> So this is why it makes economic sense for casinos to put in a few
decent
> (not 100% machines, but 99% machines like 9/6 JB and NSU deuces). If
they
> are smart, they will post signs around, like the Gold Coast does, saying
> we
> have X amount of 99%+ VP. They can even post signs right on top of the
> machines to let the average person know they are there. The result is
> great
> publicity. And a bunch of people who know absolutely nothing about
correct
> strategy will sit at these machines along with the tiny minority of
> players
> who do know something about correct strategy. Maybe those machines do
> earn nothing for the casino - they are "loss leaders" - but if they are
> not
> really losing anything or very much - the casino shouldn't really care,
> because by bringing in customers and their friends and relatives, in the
> long
> run they are going to make money.
>
> With the huge number of casinos out there causing increasing
competition,
> and the bad economy, why alienate gamblers and lose gamblers because of
> lowly 9/6 JB? It doesn't pay out 100%, casino people!! Maybe some of
them
> have gotten a wrong idea about 9/6 because they hear it is a FP (Full
Pay)
> machine. That just means it pays out the most for any of that type of
> machine (in this case Jacks or Better). But FP does not mean it is a
> positive
> game for the players. It just isn't in the case of 9/6 or NSU.
>
> I can see why a casino would want to remove $5 and up machines, but not
> crummy nickel, dime, quarter 9/6 (and probably not $1 either). It just
> doesn't make sense! Another suggestion to casinos who are "worried"
about
> these
> machines. Don't put a whole bunch together - instead alternate them, and
> also make them multigame machines, and you will find people playing
Keno,
> DDB, Triple Double Bonus, and other games too, and no one will be able
to
> sit
> and play 2 at one time either. The professionals will stay away from
> these low denominations, but you will bring in customers who think that
> the
> casino is a nice one willing to give people a fair shake.
>
>
> ************ **** <WBR>**<WBR>*A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above
> your
> steps!
>
(__http://pr.atwola.http://pr.http://prhttp://pr.atwolhttp://pr.atwolahttp://_
(http://pr.atwola.http//pr.atwhttp://pr.atwolahttp://pr.atwolahttp://pr.ht)
> _tp://pr.ahttp:tp://pr.ahttp:<Wtp://pr.ahttp:<Wtp://pr.a&_
(tp://pr.ahttp://pr.atwolahttp://pr.atwolahttp://pr.atwo&) <WBR>hmpg&<WBR_
>
(_http://pr.atwola.http://pr.atwhttp://pr.atwolahttp://pr.atwolahttp://pr.http://_
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585043x1201462775/aol?redir=http://)
> www.freecreditrepor www. www.free www.&<WBR>hmpg&<WBR>bcd=)
> JunestepsfooterNO62
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> ************ ************<WBR>**A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See
yours i
> steps!
>
(_http://pr.atwola.http://pr.atwhttp://pr.atwolahttp://pr.atwolahttp://pr.http://pr.ahttp://pr.atwolahttp://pr.atwolahttp://pr.atwo&<WBR>hmpg&<WBR_
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585043x1201462775/aol?redir=http:
//www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=)
> JunestepsfooterNO62
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

**************Shop Dell’s full line of Laptops now starting at $349!
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221881320x1201406166/aol?redir=http:%2F%2
Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215218036%3B37264217%3Bz)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The best thing about craps is that it is beatable:
http://wizardofodds.com/craps/appendix6.html

···

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, marccarfi@... wrote:

The 1.41% vig.of the pass line bet is decreased when you add the odds
bet.If you made a $60 pass bet,your total vig.is 1.41%.If you make a $10 plus
$50 odds,the vig. of the total bet is lowered.

pass bet with no odds =1.41% or 98.59% payback

pass bet with single odds = .8% or 99.2% payback

pass bet with double odds = .6% or 99.4% payback

If you take or lay Triple odds or more the vig. will be less than .5% thus
my (rounded & conservative figure of 99.5%.

Marc