vpFREE2 Forums

Randomness of Machines

MLK54321 wrote:

"The program itself could be innocuous. It would, as you say, be
  loaded from RAM upon boot-up. "

I don't see how this is possible and would refer the writer back to the previous reply. At Start up on any computer,
the RAM is empty, contains no information of any kind, is in effect, a blank slate. How could anything be "loaded up"
from a blank slate. If some code exists on the machine which will effect the manner of distribution of hands the evidence of that
code will be discoverable, either on an EEPROM, on NV memory or hard disk, somewhere, where it can be found and read.
These machines aren't Cray Supercomputers. They're not really all that complicated. I'm certain that the gaming control authorities have ample knowledgable staff to discover any such code tampering.

My personal view on this is that there is an excess of paranoia on the part of some in the gaming community and that such cheating on the part of Nevada casinos is rare indeed. After the American Coin episode why would anyone risk their license by gaffing a machine?
There's too much money to be made just by offering games in which the house has an edge. I think the owners of most casinos are patient people and see thier nice, steady profits as a long, long gravy train. No need to send it off the rails by doing someting so ham-handed and stupid as gaffing a machine.

Rich Givens

···

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--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Kit N. Kabootal" <canoebum@h...>
wrote:

MLK54321 wrote:

"The program itself could be innocuous. It would, as you say, be
  loaded from RAM upon boot-up. "

I don't see how this is possible and would refer the writer back

to the

previous reply. At Start up on any computer,
the RAM is empty, contains no information of any kind, is in

effect, a blank

slate. How could anything be "loaded up"
from a blank slate.

As you might not be aware, certain settings are saved in just about
any computer--such as the time settings--via the use of a simple
battery. In this computer's (VP machine) case, such info would
include the current hand in play, the credit balance, etc. in case
of a sudden power outage. Besides, as you might have noticed had you
read my post a little more thoroughly, I didn't intend to debate on
the practicality of my HYPOTHETICAL EXAMPLE. The point, since you
missed it, is that tampering is effortless, undetectable, and (by
the way) highly profitable. Of course the choirboys who run casinos
would never DREAM of doing such a thing to us....

If some code exists on the machine which will effect the

manner of distribution of hands the evidence of that
code will be discoverable, either on an EEPROM, on NV memory or

hard disk,

somewhere, where it can be found and read.

By someone who a)understands what they're reading and b)is in the
employ of a regulatory agency. I maintain that these two subsets of
humanity do NOT intersect, for all practical purposes.

These machines aren't Cray Supercomputers. They're not really all

that

complicated. I'm certain that the gaming control authorities have

ample

knowledgable staff to discover any such code tampering.

They are complicated enough so that you or I cannot fully understand
them. I am touched by your certainty that gaming control employs
such people, though. It's nice to see blind faith in an otherwise
cynical and harsh world.

My personal view on this is that there is an excess of paranoia on

the part

of some in the gaming community

As opposed to juuuuuust the right amount of paranoia.

and that such cheating on the part of Nevada

casinos is rare indeed.

I personally have been cheated by the house at keno, blackjack,
craps, and baccarat over fifty times in my life THAT I'M AWARE OF.
And yes, these were not my imagination---some incidents were so
blatant that I just stood there thunderstruck without saying
anything. My "paranoia" is extremely well-founded; I have SEEN and
EXPERIENCED first-hand what the house is willing to do to anyone who
it thinks might win.

After the American Coin episode why would anyone

risk their license by gaffing a machine?

The point------(sigh)------is that there IS no actual risk (as long
as the er, "modification" is a little more subtle than barring
royals).

There's too much money to be made just by offering games in which

the house

has an edge.

And MORE money if you triple that edge. Keep in mind that these are
manager-types hired for the SHORT TERM. The CEO and the stockholders
want to see an increase in the bottom line NOW.

I think the owners of most casinos are patient people and see

thier nice, steady profits as a long, long gravy train. No need to

send it

off the rails by doing someting so ham-handed and stupid as

gaffing a

machine.

This would be a more valid contention if management=ownership. But
it doesn't, at least not if the casino in question is a publicly
held corporation.

Of course it couldn't be that you just lost, someone had to "cheat"
you.

And if you can please explain how "information" can be stored in a
"battery", I and the good folks at Everyready, would like to hear
about it.

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "mkl54321 <mkl54321@y...>"
<mkl54321@y...> wrote:

--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Kit N. Kabootal" <canoebum@h...>
wrote:
>
>
> MLK54321 wrote:
>
> "The program itself could be innocuous. It would, as you say, be
> loaded from RAM upon boot-up. "
>
> I don't see how this is possible and would refer the writer back
to the
> previous reply. At Start up on any computer,
> the RAM is empty, contains no information of any kind, is in
effect, a blank
> slate. How could anything be "loaded up"
> from a blank slate.

As you might not be aware, certain settings are saved in just about
any computer--such as the time settings--via the use of a simple
battery. In this computer's (VP machine) case, such info would
include the current hand in play, the credit balance, etc. in case
of a sudden power outage. Besides, as you might have noticed had

you

read my post a little more thoroughly, I didn't intend to debate on
the practicality of my HYPOTHETICAL EXAMPLE. The point, since you
missed it, is that tampering is effortless, undetectable, and (by
the way) highly profitable. Of course the choirboys who run casinos
would never DREAM of doing such a thing to us....

If some code exists on the machine which will effect the
> manner of distribution of hands the evidence of that
> code will be discoverable, either on an EEPROM, on NV memory or
hard disk,
> somewhere, where it can be found and read.

By someone who a)understands what they're reading and b)is in the
employ of a regulatory agency. I maintain that these two subsets of
humanity do NOT intersect, for all practical purposes.

> These machines aren't Cray Supercomputers. They're not really all
that
> complicated. I'm certain that the gaming control authorities have
ample
> knowledgable staff to discover any such code tampering.
>
They are complicated enough so that you or I cannot fully

understand

them. I am touched by your certainty that gaming control employs
such people, though. It's nice to see blind faith in an otherwise
cynical and harsh world.

> My personal view on this is that there is an excess of paranoia

on

the part
> of some in the gaming community

As opposed to juuuuuust the right amount of paranoia.

and that such cheating on the part of Nevada
> casinos is rare indeed.

I personally have been cheated by the house at keno, blackjack,
craps, and baccarat over fifty times in my life THAT I'M AWARE OF.
And yes, these were not my imagination---some incidents were so
blatant that I just stood there thunderstruck without saying
anything. My "paranoia" is extremely well-founded; I have SEEN and
EXPERIENCED first-hand what the house is willing to do to anyone

who

it thinks might win.

After the American Coin episode why would anyone
> risk their license by gaffing a machine?

The point------(sigh)------is that there IS no actual risk (as long
as the er, "modification" is a little more subtle than barring
royals).

> There's too much money to be made just by offering games in which
the house
> has an edge.

And MORE money if you triple that edge. Keep in mind that these are
manager-types hired for the SHORT TERM. The CEO and the

stockholders

want to see an increase in the bottom line NOW.

I think the owners of most casinos are patient people and see
> thier nice, steady profits as a long, long gravy train. No need

to

···

send it
> off the rails by doing someting so ham-handed and stupid as
gaffing a
> machine.

This would be a more valid contention if management=ownership. But
it doesn't, at least not if the casino in question is a publicly
held corporation.