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Rama Trip Report Jul 10, 2007

The 25c 9/6 JOB triple play is still available. Also, I can confirm the
four $2 9/6 Bonus Deluxe machines by the left-hand door to the high-
roller slot area.

According to Rama's brocheures: 25c-$1 VP gives 1 point for every $15
wagered
$2 VP gives 1 point for every $20 wagered.
The cashback rate is 100 points = $5
Overall, the EV for $2 9/6 bonus deluxe with cashback and "bounce back"
cash is slightly higher than the 25c triple play 9/6 Jacks or Better
with cashback and "bounce back" cash. This assumes that the "bounce
back" rate is the same for the two machines.

One thing I noticed on a sign by the back entrance: "Admission to, and
eviction from, Casino Rama is at the discretion of management". Has
Casino Rama obtained a reputation as a "sweat joint" from advantage
players?

If you have any questions, let me know. Replies appreciated.

The 25c 9/6 JOB triple play is still available. Also, I can confirm

the

four $2 9/6 Bonus Deluxe machines by the left-hand door to the high-
roller slot area.

The "$2" machines have been moved recently. They had been located in
the middle of that space between the high limit slot area and the
poker room, back to back with four $5 machines. They were replaced
by some slot machines, and themselves replaced the $2 Triple Action
machines previously on the wall. The net result is the loss of three
of the $5 machines, and the $2 Triple Action ones.

While the machines are identified as $2 ones, as is often the
practice at Rama, 10 credits per line must be played to get the 800
for 1 full Royal payout. This makes them, essentially,$4 machines.

According to Rama's brocheures: 25c-$1 VP gives 1 point for every

$15

wagered
$2 VP gives 1 point for every $20 wagered.
The cashback rate is 100 points = $5
Overall, the EV for $2 9/6 bonus deluxe with cashback and "bounce

back"

cash is slightly higher than the 25c triple play 9/6 Jacks or

Better

with cashback and "bounce back" cash. This assumes that the "bounce
back" rate is the same for the two machines.

I had been under the assumption (based on an older brochure), that
cashback for denominations larger than $1 was halved to 0.167% from
the 0.33% available at lower denominations. At 0.25% for the "$2"
machines, that's obviously much better.

I don't know that assuming the "bounceback" rate will stay the same
as for the lower denominations is correct. Do they calculate it on
coin-in or points earned? Despite several attempts to find out, I've
been unsuccessful.

One thing I noticed on a sign by the back entrance: "Admission to,

and

eviction from, Casino Rama is at the discretion of management". Has
Casino Rama obtained a reputation as a "sweat joint" from advantage
players?

If you have any questions, let me know. Replies appreciated.

I've never noticed the sign, and don't know if it's new or not.
Could it be a reaction to the recently reported cheating scandal?

Neil

···

--- In vpFREE_Canada@yahoogroups.com, "djmcosmo" <djmcosmo@...> wrote:

Thank you for your reply. My responses follow YOUR responses....

> four $2 9/6 Bonus Deluxe machines by the left-hand door to the

high-

> roller slot area.

The "$2" machines have been moved recently. They had been located

in

the middle of that space between the high limit slot area and the
poker room, back to back with four $5 machines.

That's what I meant. From the "front" of the casino (table games
area) to the "back" of the casino (bus loading area), the machines
are on the left-hand wall of the high roller slot area. The area that
I described is indeed between the poker room and the high roller slot
area. Isn't it cool that we can "argue" about such a thing?

  They were replaced

by some slot machines, and themselves replaced the $2 Triple Action
machines previously on the wall. The net result is the loss of

three

of the $5 machines, and the $2 Triple Action ones.

The Triple Action machines are still quite popular. I STILL don't
know why, however. Some players seem to have abandoned the Triple
Action games in favour of the "great" Spin Poker and Super Times Pay
games. This may just be because the Triple Action games are "old" and
the Spin and Super Times games are "new".

While the machines are identified as $2 ones, as is often the
practice at Rama, 10 credits per line must be played to get the 800
for 1 full Royal payout. This makes them, essentially,$4 machines.

I don't know why Rama feels that they need to do this, especially on
Triple Play machines. The vast majority of players DON'T play the 9/6
JOB games (there are 6 machines, and only 2 others were occupied by
players playing Deuces Wild and short coin JOB). The $5 machines are
still "real" 5 coin VP games.

I had been under the assumption (based on an older brochure), that
cashback for denominations larger than $1 was halved to 0.167% from
the 0.33% available at lower denominations. At 0.25% for the "$2"
machines, that's obviously much better.

I quote from Rama's most recent brocheure, which lists 25c, 50c, $1,
$2, $5, $10, $20 and $100 slot machines.

According to the brocheure:
*$20 played on a $100 slot earns 5 points (!); this may be a printing
error, however.

According to the brocheure:
*25c, 50c and $1 VP earns 1 point for every $15 wagered.
*$2 VP earns 1 point for every $20 wagered.
*$5 VP earns 1 point for every $30 wagered.
$10 and $20 VP earns 1 point for every $40 wagered.

I don't know that assuming the "bounceback" rate will stay the same
as for the lower denominations is correct. Do they calculate it on
coin-in or points earned? Despite several attempts to find out,

I've

been unsuccessful.

I'm not sure exactly HOW they calculate "bounceback". I ASSUME that
200 points in a day are required, and then .5% of credit-in is
awarded. I'm sure that Rama's official explanation is
that "'bounceback' is at the discretion of management based on rated
play" or some other PR spin.

Once again, thank you for your reply. Please feel free to reply to my
reply.

That's what I meant. From the "front" of the casino (table games
area) to the "back" of the casino (bus loading area), the machines
are on the left-hand wall of the high roller slot area. The area

that

I described is indeed between the poker room and the high roller

slot

area. Isn't it cool that we can "argue" about such a thing?

I'm sorry if I appeared to be arguing with you - I certainly didn't
mean to. I thought I was confirming that the machines had been moved
slightly (from the middle to the wall). When I looked back at my
post originally describing the machines I realize I didn't have to
bother, as I wasn't that specific as to their location.

The Triple Action machines are still quite popular. I STILL don't
know why, however. Some players seem to have abandoned the Triple
Action games in favour of the "great" Spin Poker and Super Times

Pay

games. This may just be because the Triple Action games are "old"

and

the Spin and Super Times games are "new".

I guess people just haven't done the math on this game (or don't
care, or whatever).

Ironically, the $2 triple actions that were taken out were better
than all the rest of the ones in the place. You had to play only 5
per line, and a full house paid 9 instead of the 8 on all the other
ones. I never saw anyone playing the $2 triple actions.

I quote from Rama's most recent brocheure, which lists 25c, 50c,

$1,

$2, $5, $10, $20 and $100 slot machines.

According to the brocheure:
*$20 played on a $100 slot earns 5 points (!); this may be a

printing

error, however.

According to the brocheure:
*25c, 50c and $1 VP earns 1 point for every $15 wagered.
*$2 VP earns 1 point for every $20 wagered.
*$5 VP earns 1 point for every $30 wagered.
$10 and $20 VP earns 1 point for every $40 wagered.

The corresponding cashback percentages are 0.33%, 0.25%, 0.166%, and
0.125%.

I wonder if the people who run Rama realize that this approach makes
them relatively unique in casino management? Even the places with
terrible video poker usually offer slightly better paybacks at higher
denominations. At Rama, the higher the denomination - the lower the
overall return, assuming the same game and payscale.

I'm not sure exactly HOW they calculate "bounceback". I ASSUME that
200 points in a day are required, and then .5% of credit-in is
awarded. I'm sure that Rama's official explanation is
that "'bounceback' is at the discretion of management based on

rated

play" or some other PR spin.

I think .5% of coin-in is too high an estimate. Since about a year
ago, when they "adjusted" the bounceback levels, we have been pretty
consistant at 0.355%, rounded up to the nearest dollar. Any time
I've tried to find out their formula, I've gotten just the kind of
mumble-jumble you predict.

All that having been said, playing 9/6 JOB with a total theoretical
return of 100.22% at a casino slightly less than an hour's easy drive
bad.

I can guarantee you that if me, my wife, or some other close friends
of ours are there when you are, you will see people playing full coin
JOB on the multiline machines.

I will confess, however, to sometimes switching off to one of the
lesser games for a bit of variety (and, hopefully, a mini-jackpot).

Recently, after getting beat up severely at JOB for some time, I
switched to triple line deuces in the hope that I could at least luck
out and score a quick set of deuces. After a few minutes, the
machine that I had been silently cursing for some time dealt me all
four of them!

Neil

···

--- In vpFREE_Canada@yahoogroups.com, "djmcosmo" <djmcosmo@...> wrote:
from my home, and which offers pretty good comps besides, is not that

I suppose that I can understand why Rama would have a lower cashback
for higher-denomination VP. Higher-denomination games are more likely
to have better paytables. Also, higher-denomination games are more
likely to be played by better skilled players. However, I don't know
why Rama has a lower cashback rate for higher denomination SLOTS. Why
does $11 on a nickle machine earn one point, but $12 on a $2 machine is
required? Shouldn't $2 slots offer better cashback? The payback
percentage can't be THAT much better, can it?

Replies appreciated.

Actually they usually are THAT much better. Let's face it a Penny machine and a $5 machine cost
the same to purchase, the same amount to maintain, and they use the same amount of floor space.

If you are running a casino and want to make x dollars per machine per day, how would you set up
the payback percentages ?

However, I don't know

why Rama has a lower cashback rate for higher denomination SLOTS. Why
does $11 on a nickle machine earn one point, but $12 on a $2 machine is
required? Shouldn't $2 slots offer better cashback? The payback
percentage can't be THAT much better, can it?

Replies appreciated.

Regards

A.P.

···

--- djmcosmo <djmcosmo@yahoo.com> wrote:

Thank you for your reply.

I just think that it would be FAIRER to give 1 point for every $10 on
a "high roller" slot. The way that Rama's points system is set up, it
almost discourages people from playing higher-denomination machines.

Their high roller area is usually deserted.

Actually they usually are THAT much better. Let's face it a Penny

machine and a $5 machine cost

the same to purchase, the same amount to maintain, and they use the

same amount of floor space.

If you are running a casino and want to make x dollars per machine

per day, how would you set up

the payback percentages ?

--- djmcosmo <djmcosmo@...> wrote:

However, I don't know
> why Rama has a lower cashback rate for higher denomination SLOTS.

Why

> does $11 on a nickle machine earn one point, but $12 on a $2

machine is

···

> required? Shouldn't $2 slots offer better cashback? The payback
> percentage can't be THAT much better, can it?
>
> Replies appreciated.

Machine improvements at RAMA !
Unbelievable and astounding.

The bank of 3/5 play machines have all been updated.

They now have 3/5/10 play on them.
They are now only 5 coins per line max bet.
Multi-denominational 5 cents (10 play only); 25 cent 3/5/10 play, and
dollar 3/5/10 play .

THEY ALL HAVE FULL PAY 9/6 JOB .
They also have 7/5 bonus, Illinois/airport deuces, and Super Aces,
didn't check pay table on that one.

So they finally have some good VP for the smaller player, 10 play
nickels is a great play.

I played 5 play quarters for a few hours, the bank was pretty busy for
most of the time.

Machine improvements at RAMA !
Unbelievable and astounding.

The bank of 3/5 play machines have all been updated.

They now have 3/5/10 play on them.
They are now only 5 coins per line max bet.
Multi-denominational 5 cents (10 play only); 25 cent 3/5/10 play,

and

dollar 3/5/10 play .

THEY ALL HAVE FULL PAY 9/6 JOB .
They also have 7/5 bonus, Illinois/airport deuces, and Super Aces,
didn't check pay table on that one.

So they finally have some good VP for the smaller player, 10 play
nickels is a great play.

I played 5 play quarters for a few hours, the bank was pretty busy

for

most of the time.

Thanks for the report. I heard from another source that the Super
Aces is 7/5 - the same as was available before.

I'm going to be out of town for a few days - I will update the casino
inventory when I get back.

I have two concerns with the changes: it may be difficult to get on a
machine, since there are only six of them, and none of the
combinations of lines and denominations comes to the $7.50 per hand
that I've become used to playing - I'll have to go up a bit, or down
a bit (decisions, decisions).

Assuming that they retain the same cashback and bounceback structure
as currently exists, the multiline dollar options provide the
opportunity to get a lot of coinin at the highest levels available.

Neil

···

--- In vpFREE_Canada@yahoogroups.com, "ehpee123" <ehpee@...> wrote:

I used to be a $7.50 a hand player too.
I much preferred the 5 play quarters at $6.25, it really reduced the volatility,
and gave me a lot more play time than the triple play.
If I was running well I would consider the quarter 10 play.
  

I have two concerns with the changes: it may be difficult to get on a
machine, since there are only six of them, and none of the
combinations of lines and denominations comes to the $7.50 per hand
that I've become used to playing - I'll have to go up a bit, or down
a bit (decisions, decisions).

Regards

A.P.

It is nice to know that Rama now has nickle machines. Just curious,
what are the credit-in requirements to earn points? Are they the same
at 5c as at $1?

Thanks.

Machine improvements at RAMA !
Unbelievable and astounding.

The bank of 3/5 play machines have all been updated.

They now have 3/5/10 play on them.
They are now only 5 coins per line max bet.
Multi-denominational 5 cents (10 play only); 25 cent 3/5/10 play,

and

dollar 3/5/10 play .

THEY ALL HAVE FULL PAY 9/6 JOB .
They also have 7/5 bonus, Illinois/airport deuces, and Super Aces,
didn't check pay table on that one.

So they finally have some good VP for the smaller player, 10 play
nickels is a great play.

I played 5 play quarters for a few hours, the bank was pretty busy

for

···

most of the time.

Yes, the requirements only change on denominations greater than one dollar.

Regards

A.P.

···

--- djmcosmo <djmcosmo@yahoo.com> wrote:

It is nice to know that Rama now has nickle machines. Just curious,
what are the credit-in requirements to earn points? Are they the same
at 5c as at $1?

Thanks.

The nickels are 300 credits per point. ie - $15.

···

djmcosmo <djmcosmo@yahoo.com> wrote:
  It is nice to know that Rama now has nickle machines. Just curious,
what are the credit-in requirements to earn points?
       
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