"Greatest Gambler of All Time" Busted

[Barry_Glazer]

Although those of us who are card counters and not cheats (and you are right, counting cards is legal, marking cards is not) feel it’s not fair, both cheats and card counters can end up in the black book. I used to know a little more about the book (who maintains it, etc.) but have forgotten.

From the casino’s perspective, both are equally unacceptable activities, hence the tendency to put both in the black book, which is for subscribing casinos to use to identify people they don’t want to play in their casino – but of course, a cheat CAN be prosecuted if evidence is available, while a card counter can not, since no law is broken.

But don’t get me started on that topic…

–BG

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2d. Re: "Greatest Gambler of All Time" Busted

For counting cards…

I didn’t see anything about that. It sounds like he belongs in the
Black Book.

It was actually for marking cards, not counting cards. I sent out a
correction right after the initial email. Counting cards is legal.

[haaljo_haaljo]

Black Book wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Book_(gambling)

“…The Las Vegas Sun reported on September 13, 2005, that Griffin Investigations had filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in light of legal costs and damages from a successful defamation lawsuit against the company. The lawsuit had been brought by two gamblers, Michael Russo and James Grosjean, claiming they had been improperly detained, labeled as cheaters and arrested, on the basis of information supplied by Griffin.^[According to the judgement of a jury in Clark County District Court in June 2005, Griffin Investigations was ordered to pay Michael Russo $15,000 and $10,000 to James Grosjean in punitive damages. Each company (Griffin Investigations and Caesars Palace) was ordered to pay Russo and Grosjean the actual damages of $25,000 each…”

···

—In vpF…@…com, <vpf…@…com> wrote:

Although those of us who are card counters and not cheats (and you are right, counting cards is legal, marking cards is not) feel it’s not fair, both cheats and card counters can end up in the black book. I used to know a little more about the book (who maintains it, etc.) but have forgotten.

From the casino’s perspective, both are equally unacceptable activities, hence the tendency to put both in the black book, which is for subscribing casinos to use to identify people they don’t want to play in their casino – but of course, a cheat CAN be prosecuted if evidence is available, while a card counter can not, since no law is broken.

But don’t get me started on that topic…

–BG

===================

2d. Re: "Greatest Gambler of All Time" Busted

For counting cards…

I didn’t see anything about that. It sounds like he belongs in the
Black Book.

It was actually for marking cards, not counting cards. I sent out a
correction right after the initial email. Counting cards is legal.

[MHS3]

Not even 100G's. Pretty small potatoes for a business wielding such widespread and influential power.

···

On 9/28/2013 1:11 PM, haaljo@yahoo.com wrote:

Black Book wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Book_(gambling) <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Book_(gambling)>

"...The /Las Vegas Sun <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Vegas_Sun>/ reported on September 13, 2005, that Griffin Investigations had filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapter_11_bankruptcy_protection> in light of legal costs and damages from a successful defamation <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation> lawsuit against the company. The lawsuit had been brought by two gamblers, Michael Russo and James Grosjean <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Grosjean>, claiming they had been improperly detained, labeled as cheaters and arrested, on the basis of information supplied by Griffin.^[ <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griffin_Investigations#cite_note-2> According to the judgement of a jury in Clark County District Court in June 2005, Griffin Investigations was ordered to pay Michael Russo $15,000 and $10,000 to James Grosjean in punitive damages. Each company (Griffin Investigations and Caesars Palace <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesars_Palace>) was ordered to pay Russo and Grosjean the actual damages of $25,000 each..."

[richard_d]

Hard to tell, some small businesses suck all the money out with good tax planning. After you get a car, 25% toward your pension first class health insurance, lunch and entertainment allowance you can get a modest W-2 and live well. The business can stay broke and does not pay big salaries, while the owners do OK.

Not saying that was the case here but if they were smart it was. Somewhere along the line they must have known that a lawsuit was coming that would hit paydirt.

···

—In vpF…@…com, <vpf…@…com> wrote:

On 9/28/2013 1:11 PM, haaljo@… wrote:

Black Book wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Book_(

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Book_%28gambling%29>

"…The /Las Vegas Sun

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Las_Vegas_Sun>/ reported on September

13, 2005, that Griffin Investigations had filed for Chapter 11

bankruptcy protection

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapter_11_bankruptcy_protection> in

light of legal costs and damages from a successful defamation

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation> lawsuit against the company.

The lawsuit had been brought by two gamblers, Michael Russo and James

Grosjean <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Grosjean>, claiming they

had been improperly detained, labeled as cheaters and arrested, on the

basis of information supplied by Griffin.^[

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griffin_Investigations#cite_note-2>

According to the judgement of a jury in Clark County District Court in

June 2005, Griffin Investigations was ordered to pay Michael Russo

$15,000 and $10,000 to James Grosjean in punitive damages. Each

company (Griffin Investigations and Caesars Palace

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesars_Palace>) was ordered to pay

Russo and Grosjean the actual damages of $25,000 each…"

Not even 100G’s. Pretty small potatoes for a business wielding such

widespread and influential power.

[007]

Barry Glazer wrote:

both cheats and card counters can end up in the black book.

You might be confusing the Black Book with other books by detective
agencies, such as the Griffin book. I don't believe any card counter
is in the Black Book. People in the Black Book are thereby barred
from every casino in Nevada. One of them, a relative of an
acquaintance of mine, was a line producer for "The Cotton Club."