Greetings from Delray Beach Florida.
Would one of you kind folks take the time and explain this 100%
payback I see written about in so many messages?
Does this mean you get to play this video poker for free? How can
that be? I really don't seem to understand.
Is this Bob Dancer machine made by the Gentleman that writes the
books?
I really appreciate any help you can give me in answering my
questions.
Jimmy
Hi, Jimmy. It is my understanding that Bob Dancer lent his name to a
few machines connected to the casino system where he is presently giving
seminars. The machines payback varies depending on the game being
played. 100% payback means that if you play perfect poker you will get
all your money back and break even over the long run. No one knows how
long the long run really is, but it is probably a couple million hands.
Somehow people make money doing this. [I don't]!! Dick M.
"James Nelson " wrote:
Greetings from Delray Beach Florida.
Would one of you kind folks take the time and explain this 100%
payback I see written about in so many messages?Does this mean you get to play this video poker for free? How can
that be? I really don't seem to understand.Is this Bob Dancer machine made by the Gentleman that writes the
books?I really appreciate any help you can give me in answering my
questions.Jimmy
vpFREE Home Page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREEvpFREE Links:
http://www.lvcm.com/tomesims/VP/Links.htmlYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Greetings from Delray Beach Florida.
Greetings from Las Vegas, Home of Positive ER Video Poker :
Would one of you kind folks take the time and explain this 100%
payback I see written about in so many messages?
Read the vpFREE FAQ (all of it)
http://www.lvcm.com/tomesims/VP/FAQ.html
<a href="http://www.lvcm.com/tomesims/VP/FAQ.html">
http://www.lvcm.com/tomesims/VP/FAQ.html</a>
Does this mean you get to play this video poker for free?
Many people who use optimum strategy (with not too many errors) on positive machines, and take advantage of
casino promotions, make money playing video poker.
How can that be? I really don't seem to understand.
Read "Video Poker-Optimum Play" by Dan Paymar, "The Frugal Gambler" by Jean Scott, and then get some
video poker software.
Is this Bob Dancer machine made by the Gentleman that writes the
books?
Yes.
Best wishes,
Tom Sims
... The Smart Money was on Goliath ...
Measure with a micrometer - Mark with chalk - Cut with an axe
On 4 Feb 2003 at 21:12, James Nelson queen_high_flush wrote:
Would one of you kind folks take the time and explain this 100%
payback I see written about in so many messages?Does this mean you get to play this video poker for free? How can
that be? I really don't seem to understand.
The quick answer to your question is yes, you get to play these
machines for free, or even at a profit, if they are over 100%
payback, which some few are. This is the essence of positive
expectation video poker play. The tricky part is that VP is a skill
game, meaning that your true expected results will diminish with
every mistake you make. If you are playing a game with a .5%
advantage, you don't have much margin for error. You have to play
the machine perfectly, or near perfectly to actually have a positive
expectation. (Infrequent, minor errors won't really hurt you that
much, but frequent errors, or major errors will hurt you alot.) Most
players make enough errors to turn a positive game into a negative
game. And there are plenty of players who make truly awful
repetitive errors that cost them a great deal, such as the man who
sat next to me one time and told me he never held a low pair in jacks
or better, because the machine said you had to have jacks or better
to win. Even otherwise good players can play a losing game at times
if they start making glaring mistakes because they are tired, or
distracted, or frustrated, or playing too fast. The bottom line is
that a casino will still make money off of a 100%+ machine. The
losses from the vast multitude of bad players will more than make up
for the wins by a handful of good players.
EE
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "eecounter <eecounter@h...>"
<eecounter@h...> wrote:
> Would one of you kind folks take the time and explain this 100%
> payback I see written about in so many messages?
>
> Does this mean you get to play this video poker for free? How can
> that be? I really don't seem to understand.
>The quick answer to your question is yes, you get to play these
machines for free, or even at a profit, if they are over 100%
payback, which some few are. This is the essence of positive
expectation video poker play. The tricky part is that VP is a skill
game, meaning that your true expected results will diminish with
every mistake you make. If you are playing a game with a .5%
advantage, you don't have much margin for error. You have to play
the machine perfectly, or near perfectly to actually have a positive
expectation. (Infrequent, minor errors won't really hurt you that
much, but frequent errors, or major errors will hurt you alot.)
Most
players make enough errors to turn a positive game into a negative
game. <<SNIP>> The bottom line is
that a casino will still make money off of a 100%+ machine. The
losses from the vast multitude of bad players will more than make up
for the wins by a handful of good players.EE
Good summary- and I would add that this near '100%' is the expected
return or value (often abbreviated as 'e.v.'). This includes all the
possible winning hands..........so really every player is an
'underdog' (at 98-99% or so) until the ROYAL flush hits (worth
roughly 1.5-2%). If you get MORE OR LESS than your 'average'
share of good winning hands (like 4 kinds in Jacks or better games,
or 4-deuces in Deuces wild games) in the meantime, you may come out
waaaayyyyyy ahead or behind. That's where slot club benefits can
'offset' that 1.5-2% shortfall that the Royal is worth. Then,
(as some others have written), when you get that Royal, it becomes
almost like 'gravy' or 'icing' on the cake.
Playing games that have potential 'e.v's of less than say 98%, then
usually, by the time you hit the Royal-- it's anticlimatic. Probably,
you just got most of your losses back.
Bottom line - keep studying and learning which vp games
are worth playing for your bankroll, comfort levels, etc.
Martin.
eecounter wrote:
The quick answer to your question is yes, you get to play these
machines for free, or even at a profit, if they are over 100%
payback, which some few are. This is the essence of positive
expectation video poker play. The tricky part is that VP is a skill
game, meaning that your true expected results will diminish with
every mistake you make.
Sorry ... the tricky part is that you're subject to the volatility of
the game which could mean that you never realize a profit, or that in
the very short-run your losses run quite high and your bankroll is
exhausted before you ever see profitability. Of course, the converse
is true. Some (rare) players are profitable out of the starting gate
and never see a deficit. Of course, it's the former circumstance that
is of concern to all.
A decent number of $.25 10/7 DB players will run a $4000 or greater
loss in a year's time, even with .2% cashback. I don't think if
polled that they'd consider their play free.
Any vp player must be circumspect about the risk involved. Perhaps
the best that can be said is that players of positive machines have
greater expectation of their play being profitable or at nominal cost.
But I'd be loathe to suggest outright that the play will be free.
- Harry
Good point, Harry. The swings can be tremendous.
I've said it before, but I'll repeat it for the newbies. At one point I was down $4,000 and was about to call it quits. But I added to my bankroll, and then hit three royals in a month and was close to even again. Now, two years into my advantage play, mostly in Atlantic City, I'm slightly behind in gambling itself, with cashback bringing me to breakeven. So yes, I get to play for free and the comps are gravy, but I had to lose $4,000 and be willing to risk more money before I came back. I expect I'll have another bad streak like that, or worse, sometime in the future. Hopefully AFTER I hit a couple royals so there'll be some cushion in my bankroll. 
That is why NO ONE should EVER play with money he/she cannot afford to lose. If you're betting the mortgage, the kids' college fund or your 401K, you have a serious problem and need to get help. I've seen plenty of people in AC who lost their jobs, homes, families and sanity to the gambling bug. Don't let it happen to you.
Blessings and royals to all.
Elaine
"Harry Porter <harry.porter@verizon.net>" <harry.porter@verizon.net> wrote:Any vp player must be circumspect about the risk involved. Perhaps
the best that can be said is that players of positive machines have
greater expectation of their play being profitable or at nominal cost.
But I'd be loathe to suggest outright that the play will be free.
- Harry
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- In vpFREE@yahoogroups.com, "Harry Porter <harry.porter@v...>"
<harry.porter@v...> wrote:
(snip)...Any vp player must be circumspect about the risk
involved. Perhaps
the best that can be said is that players of positive machines have
greater expectation of their play being profitable or at nominal
cost.
But I'd be loathe to suggest outright that the play will be free.
- Harry
OK, I can hardly argue with that. Perhaps I should have said that
with highly skilled play on positive machines, you
will "theoretically" win, eventually, provided the swings don't wipe
you out first.
EE
Yes, JIMMY, 100% payback means you can play for free if you use the correct
strategy. I know of one chap who claims to have won $250,000 last year,
using a modified martingale system.
*************************************************
Stay Away from the Suncoast & Save Full Pay VP
----- Original Message -----
From: <queen_high_flush1@yahoo.com>
To: <vpFREE@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 04, 2003 3:12 PM
Subject: [vpFREE] Question
Greetings from Delray Beach Florida.
Would one of you kind folks take the time and explain this 100%
payback I see written about in so many messages?Does this mean you get to play this video poker for free? How can
that be? I really don't seem to understand.Is this Bob Dancer machine made by the Gentleman that writes the
books?I really appreciate any help you can give me in answering my
questions.Jimmy
vpFREE Home Page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vpFREEvpFREE Links:
http://www.lvcm.com/tomesims/VP/Links.htmlYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/